Trusk'our

In the Cosmere, an Avatar is a semi-independent portion of Investiture split off from a Shard. It can exist and act of its own accord, but it can ultimately be overwritten and controlled by the Shard. So, by this ruling, is a Metalmind essentially an Avatar of a Feruchemist? The Metalmind has its own separate "body", but shares an Identity with the Feruchemist and can be drawn back to them at will, assuming they can maintain contact. I know this isn't a perfect simile given that a Feruchemist clearly isn't a Vessel, but could Feruchemy perhaps be utilizing this mechanism in the same way Nalthian Awakening uses base Cosmere principles? Maybe an Unsealed Metalmind is just an extension of this idea, expanding the Feruchemist's influence through a more fully Splintered portion of their Spiritweb.

You know, given how TLR prevented Compounding and most Feruchemical powers for the Inquisitors, I think you have a good point. I can't imagine TLR really pushing them to make new Hemalurgic constructs. Perhaps they took this initiative on their own? Hmm, that could prove valuable. Perhaps Marsh's bronze Allomancy would have helped too, assuming that the Investing of spikes is comparable to Metalminds. I think you could still glean some details from subtler attributes. It would take extra creativity, but some extra information would be extractable. Though, yeah, I think it's unavoidable that some humans would need to bear spikes to see if the model worked. I still think terminally ill, willing subjects would be possible though. Just more scarce. More excellent observations as always Dux. The true benefits of studying Hemalurgy will probably come in the form of knowledge of the Spiritweb more than anything else. I've also wondered recently, what would the final phase of Hemalurgy look like? If one can overcome the Flaw, unwanted warping of the Spiritweb, pain, harming donors, all of that- what is the actual end benefit? My thinking is that you'd have complete control over all Spiritual aspects, and by virtue near total autonomy over your own being. Some pieces of the cognitive aspect, like individual memories, cannot be directly affected via Hemalurgy, but still, you could change yourself into virtually anything you wanted (especially with copper Feruchemy). Is that. . . a good thing? I mean, you could cut out all pain of disability, stubborn injuries, even change your appearance and mental/physical abilities to be whatever you wanted. Which is great, but does that fundamentally undermine the process of individual growth? I didn't expect to get philosophical talking about the soul, but maybe I should have.

Hemalurgy is very, very powerful, mostly due to its enormous flexibility- you could, in theory, use it to recreate or steal just about any other MoI. Unfortunately, that very flexibility makes it extraordinarily difficult to use, as unlike with a MoI with great rigidity like Allomancy, you can't create a construct or useful Spiritweb change by simply "activating" the magic. You need to be far more delicate to get something useful. To realistically harness Hemalurgy's broader abilities without the direct aid of a Shardic-level being, one would need a lot of knowledge. But, what would it actually look like to get that knowledge? For this thought experiment I'm assuming the person seeking to harness Hemalurgy has: 1. A pre-existing general knowledge of Hemalurgy and some of its uses, like Koloss transformations or Metalborn theft. 2. Financial backing and connections to get necessary tools for their operation. 3. No access to offworld MoI or Shardic intervention. First and foremost, you'll need a way to practice the art quite a bit. And while SR shenanigans should used, experimentation is almost certainly going to be necessary as well, just as Telsin's futuresight still required experimentation to get things right. So, you're gonna need a laboratory to test and center your operations. But where to start after getting a base of operations? It's true that the Steel Inquisitors had their own laboratories and didn't mind human sacrifice, but that kind of business model is unsustainable in the modern Era and is, quite frankly, revolting. A far more plausible method for experimenting would be to use a simpler animal, probably rats, in place of human test subjects. You can breed loads of them quickly to replenish your stock and can use them with far less moral cost. Rats actually share 90% of their DNA with humans, and are often used IRL to study diseases in humans due to their physiological and psychological similarity to us (at least that's what Google says). Obviously, they aren't exactly the same as us and we're also going to be using sDNA, not direct physical code, so successful Hemalurgy models in the rats may not be as compatible with humans as desired. Because of this you'll eventually need to try out Hemalurgy models on humans, but they should be well tested beforehand on the expendable rat subjects, and then maybe moved to terminally ill humans for stable models, and then humans who just want the spikes last. The first experiments, I think, should probably focus on the direct compatibility between rats and humans then. Koloss transformations I don't think would be hard to know of, given Allomancer Jak's stories, other's accounts of Koloss traditions, and of course the knowledge of the Hemalurgists that yes, seemingly magical transformations can occur with metal spikes. Sending out a group of researchers (probably Terris) who are willing to live alongside a relatively friendly Koloss tribe feels like the first real step to discover all the specific physiological and psychological changes made from their transformations. Plus, you can find out the placement of their spikes and send back the information to headquarters. After such, attempting to create a rat-Koloss feels like the next step to take in experimentation. If successful, you can use that knowledge to figure out the Bindpoint layout in humans vs rats, making it far easier for future rat testing to be useful. Plus, the Set were capable of modifying Chimera with a second spike, suggesting that tweaking a pre-existing model is more feasible than creating one from scratch (though Autonomy's or pseudo-Avatar Telsin's oversight probably helped), so modified versions of Koloss might be achievable with some work. This is good information, but still limits the use of Hemalurgy quite a bit. The Koloss model is potent, but has numerous drawbacks. Even improved Koloss- ones with milder or simply less debilitating changes- can really only do so much. Cognitive and spiritual augmentation should be practiced with as well, despite not having a base model to glean useful hints from. Still, if you have enough rats you might be able to start methodically trying out a number of spike combinations in the hopes of stumbling upon something useful. This is highly unlikely to yeild anything of value on its own due to its sheer complexity, given the Steel Inquisition's lack of success. So, this is where you can begin to try out SR hacks to jump forward in your research. Hiring a trusted Nicroburst and Oracles and possibly Augers could be useful for finding tricky spike positions, which you can then observe and record the changes wrought (Spinners are probably less useful for this area, as they have very finite access to their Investiture). Depending on your resources though, you might be able to have a scientist dip in Harmony's Shardpool and peek into the SR even more directly. This is highly dependent on whether you can get access to it (like if your organization is supported by the Ghostbloods), but if you can, it would be undeniably useful. Unsealed Metalminds might also be useful, depending on how versatile they are currently. Speed of thought, memory sharing, and Fortune would all be helpful if your scientists can get ahold of them. I think these steps can get you pretty far, but I think for the most specific, powerful transformations you will have to refine your spikes even further. We know from the existence of Kandra Blessings that it's not just the metal that matters, but what percentage and the specific parts of a Spiritweb that are taken. So experiments that begin utilizing Commands, alternative Bindpoints (assuming the heart is the de facto place to harvest attributes), and perhaps just more refined Intents to see if they affect models in a noticeable way should be implemented. Anyway, these are my current thoughts on how Hemalurgy could realistically be harnessed for future use. Additional thoughts?

Welcome to the Shard! Which theory have you come up with that you'd like to see proven most? Also, which Cosmere magic system is your favorite to come up with ideas for?

Well, given that some of Shallan's early Surgebinding feats were accomplished before her bonding to Pattern, I think it's at least worth considering that a Connector might be able to tap into various Surges with enough Connection. Another very plausible application could be summoning the Spren quicker than ten heartbeats, or maybe changing its shape more easily. Another weird, convoluted application might be to store the Connection of a bonded Deadeye, break the bond and give it to someone else you're enemies with, then when they try to turn the Blade on you just tap loads of Connection and summon it right before they strike you. Then stab them

Seems like a fair conclusion. If, perhaps, your Metalmind's Identity isn't enough to stick to the Blade, maybe a Hemalurgic spike could be molded to it? It's an actual addition to the Spren's Spiritweb, so adding it like you do a Polestone might be a functional way to boost your Blade. I know the idea was discussed somewhere before, but I think the general conclusion was no, it probably doesn't work that way. I'd have to rummage around and look again though. I think it was on a thread talking about how Identity was the real interference between Investitures? Honestly, I think it's most likely a minor worldbuilding hole. Atium can be Pushed on despite being highly Invested, as Brandon hadn't yet envisioned how Invested objects would resist Steelpushing yet.

You know, given that the Gemstones meld to and can be summoned along with the Blade, I wonder if a Feruchemist could attach Metalminds to a Blade they bonded. Then they could have a summonable Metalmind any time they needed on top of a Shardblade.

We don't know a lot of the context, but given Adonalsium's power and knowledge I always assumed the Shattering was allowed by the being for some reason. Maybe it thought the Shattering was necessary for its creations' growth?

Hmm, well, I guess it depends, especially based on how I want to determine what Shard I want most. Is it the Shard I best identify with and would be best pals with? In that case, I don't think I'd do great with Autonomy. At its best, I see it encouraging growth and self-actualization, which is great. But, it feels like a very individualistic Intent by definition, which prevents unity and teamwork. At its core though, it seems to respect individual agency, which is also good- but I think it would take it to such an extreme that it would drive me mad. A serial killer wants to sacrifice innocents for their twisted pleasure? My Shard values their tenacity too much for me to step in. Bleh. Probably being too harsh on it as Bavadin currently filters what we've seen thus far, but that's my least favorite right now. Honor is far, far more in tune with who I am fundamentally. I love honesty, promises kept, and people bonding together to become stronger. It also, I think, would feed off of the self-righteous part of me. That isn't good, but it would make things easier for me personally. The only thing I really don't love about Honor is its lack of mercy or inherent love- it's a perfectionist (like me), but that ultimately stifles forgiveness and growth (also sometimes me, at my worst). Again, a negative trait I sometimes hold, but wouldn't want to hold forever, which bearing the Shard probably would consign me to. I'd still probably opt for Honor though. Now, if the question is which Shard would I take for the betterment of the Cosmere as a whole? In this case, I might actually go for Ruin. Not only does nobody else want it, but it has a lot of potential, I think. It's about change- forceful, destructive change, but often that's what we need to grow as people. It definitely goes too far with that Intent, but it is what it is. On a more practical note, I could use my Spiritweb-crack infiltration, Hemalurgy, and general destructive capabilities to screw with Odium, who I'd be worried about. Having the Shard of destruction as a warrior (for good causes) seems like a reasonable idea. We don't know enough about all the Shards for me to say this with absolute certainty, and no matter which one I take there's going to be problems, but this is my current stance: Ruin as my first choice for the potential of a better future, then Honor as my second choice mostly for personal compatability, and probably Autonomy picking up dead last for a presumable lack of micromanagement.

I suppose that's fair. The more real competition you have to move against, the less accurate your plan will turn out. That's a good point actually. Removing Kharbranth under the guise of sacrificing it would be a clever ruse. Perhaps Todium couldn't form a Speed bubble to increase his time to plan as it would have interfered too much with the workings of those around him (in the same way he couldn't directly strike down Cultivation's assassins) but that shouldn't stop him from pulling a Sparker and giving himself hundreds to thousands of years over the span of a few seconds to look into every possible future, analyze every avenue of thought and history of each person in the equation. Then you just formulate multiple plans that can be called upon should any possible future arrive, and no matter the outcome you win. This concept was explored in RoW, but I don't feel like it was really continued in WaT. Given Retribution's victory and others' views, I'm probably just being stingy. I just wish we had some more screen time exploring hyper intelligence and grand plans. A weird concept, given that Vessels are supposed to have vastly expanded minds, but that could be valid. Perhaps Cultivation's Boon is still discretely at play? I'd normally argue that a Shards can easily replicate nearly any mortal MoI, making zinc and steel Feruchemy or Cultivation's intelligence boon easy to achieve. However, if Cultivation does still have her hooks in Tarabution, I could see this being a thing. Also, on the topic of Death Rattles being correct so frequently, it could be a bit like measuring in quantum mechanics: the more accurately you describe a future, the less likely it is to occur because of how narrowly defined it is. A vague prediction might be unable to help you much, but it will probably be correct since it can be plugged into so many timelines. Maybe this is part of why Fortune is typically vague? Maybe that helps make it more applicable to whatever you end up doing?

There's something that's been bugging me. Shards and their mental/temporal abilities feel wildly inconsistent to me. Taravangian claims to have greater brilliance than on even his most genius days as a mortal where he could accurately plan out years in advance with no access to the SR, but can still have his plans regularly foiled by various mortals (Adolin successfully defending Azir, his Fused failing to take the Planes, Kaladin aiding the Heralds and reforming the Oathpact, and Dalinar screwing him over by the end- though admittedly that last one would be less predictable due to its great sacrificial requirements, it going against who Dalinar was before, and Dalinar at the time also having access to the SR). What's more, can't Shards slow down time to a crawl? Taravangian takes 20 years to train Gavinor, but for some reason can't increase his reaction time for plotting against a couple of human assassins? I know that these abilities mess with storytelling due to their potency, but this feels like the kind of issue that most media have with speedsters- the abilities are poorly portrayed instead of weakening them or changing the story to fit them properly. Thoughts on this? Counter arguments?

Sounds fun! I'd say A-pewter/F-steel, which I'd call a "Blitz". They'd have extra speed to store by siphoning off of their Allomancy and could make better use of that speed with heightened strength, agility, and endurance. Especially dangerous in combat, even if the sped up burning of metals doesn't boost their Allomancy (which, as an internal power, I suspect it wouldn't).

We know Harmony could do it currently if he wanted, and his powers are basically just a more expansive version of the Well, so I'd say yes, they could have created more Lerasium. Plus, Rashek empowered himself into Mistbornhood with the Well, which is Lerasium's only current known effect, so this supports creating more Lerasium with the Well.

Oh, I can believe the difficulty of not searching the Coppermind until after I get my copy of whatever latest Sanderson book there is. . . I may have possibly spoiled a few things for myself once or twice. But you're gonna love Era 2! It's my current favorite Cosmere series and it brings a ton of new Metallic Arts possibilities with it.

Ah, a fellow Investiture nerd. Welcome to the Shard! After you read Era 2, you should join the Mistborn forums to discuss your thoughts on the Metallic Arts. I'd love to hear them!

Welcome to the Shard! Which of the three Metallic Arts is your favorite, what's something about each you would like to see explored in Era 3, and which single aspect of each system is the most intriguing to you above the others?

Welcome to the Shard! Which of the three Metallic Arts is your favorite to read about, what's one new thing would you like to see explored about each in Era 3, and which single ability/power from each system is the most intriguing to you above the others in that system?

Ah. Yes, it's pretty good

Have you read any Mistborn?

In Feruchemy, you get out what you put in. It's possible to store non-traditional attributes, like caffeine in a Bronzemind or Bronzesense in a Tinmind. And since Compounding just overwrites the standard Allomantic effect with the Feruchemical one, Compounding eyesight from tin Allomancy would give better night vision as opposed to binocular-like vision. Other senses that the Twinborn could figure out how to store would become viable for Compounding as well.

One thing I've seen pop up a few times reading the SA now is that even if Odium were to be trapped in the Rosharan system he could still send his armies out abroad to the larger Cosmere. I'm confused as to how this would be effective, however. Rayse's goal was to become the sole god of the Cosmere, not just dominate worlds, if I remember correctly. It's possible Rayse could attempt to goad opposing Shards into coming to him by harassing their lands, but Shards unbound by agreements can simply smite whatever comes on their home turf- an army of Fused and Singers does little good against a planet-destroying wave of plasma tossed their general direction. Any thoughts behind Rayse's possible avenues for galactic supremacy?

Nightblood was originally designed to mimic Shardblades, but it accessing Surgebinding is completely new. It think these would be within the realm of reason, though the sword would need to learn them ahead of time just as it did with Surgebinding. I think more complex powers, like AonDor or Forgery would be harder though and would take more time. I do think it more likely that it would simply grant those abilities to the person they Bonded instead of being used as a stamp or AonDor pen though, just like an Honorblade or Unsealed Metalmind grants their powers to others. Actually, Nightblood kind of already does this in some way with their emotional manipulation, though I think it's more a natural ability and less a direct mimicry. But yes, that should be plausible I think.

Hemalurgy is pretty intriguing. I've had a few ideas myself on how it could be turned into a (relatively) clean source of Investiture. Feruchemy I think will also have some really awesome potential as technology advances. Airships were possible through inanimate objects harnessing Feruchemical iron. What else might be possible? Bendalloy fueltanks? Coppermind VR? Emergency Goldmind implants? Brass shielding (maybe even for other wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum)? I'm actually leaning towards Soulbearer Twinborn being a kind of opposite of Compounders, given that they might be able to augment their Allomancy through their Feruchemy similar to Compounders boosting Feruchemy with Allomancy. If true, they'd be powerful indeed. Not a lot of ideas for how it works yet, but it would bring a whole new meaning to Identity theft!

Nice to meet you! Which of the three Metallic Arts is your favorite to read about, what's one new thing would you like to see explored about each in Era 3, and which single ability/power from each system is the most intriguing to you above the others in that system?

An interesting theory. There are a couple things to note, however: A Returned cannot heal an injury that is viewed as part of a person, no matter the Returned's Intent. SA spoilers. Also, a Returned cannot actually give their Breath to someone else to hold onto, just to heal them. Mistborn Era 1 spoilers. Still, I think other parts of your theory are sound. If the child healed by the Divine Breath had the right spiritual genetics, they might be able to get their own fragmental Divine Breath that way, or perhaps grow one with the supercharged healing.