Quintessential

You're mixing up the timing, first of all. As I just told you in our PM, Gears claimed to me before he scanned you, and it was actually my idea to scan you at all. Also they never did frame Gears, they framed Reading. If anyone "framed Gears" it was me, because I was the one who RBd him and then started the chain. And it isn't just for reasons in PMs that I find it hard to see Gears as elim. The RB chain about him spread widely enough that the elims must have known about it, but they never did anything to stop/counter it. Neither did he, and he stopped the only counter-chain that could have deflected suspicion from him. And when he claimed TLR to me last cycle, he told me he hadn't scanned the cycle before even though he was technically allowed to--which is a very non-elim thing to say, if you think about it. An elim probably would have just said "I scanned you, I know you're village." Edit: Oh, yeah, and Ash didn't trust you apparently. He messaged me just before rollover last cycle asking me to look into you if he died. For the moment I guess I'm trusting Gears, so I'm trusting that you aren't elim, but the point is that Ash likely was lying to you about TLR scanning him. He certainly never told me anything like that.

What if the RBer isn't village? I mean, if we've all decided to trust Gears' word, then it means there's another RBer who for some reason hasn't claimed to anyone yet. Is it really so crazy, in that case, to say that maybe the elims have an RBer that they used to frame Reading in hopes of causing chaos? I mean, if that was the intention, it *definitely* worked.

Somebody means, who RBd the elim that attacked Reading?

I don't think so... It's way less confusing when you're elim (like I was last game; also that game ended after C4 because we had more elims than the village thought we did). Also generally the first round doesn't end with an ambiguous "someone was killed but survived!" Edit: Any and all village rolescanners, it would be really great to know who you've scanned so far and what they are, so we can start figuring out who to suspect. Like, if you've scanned an RBer who wasn't me, you might tell Connie ('cause she knows who the other one, the one that didn't submit an action, is) and have her verify that that person has at least said something. In general, though, just tell someone you trust and have that person post on the board for you.

I would guess so? I mean, I am. Also, I guess Gears for now, though it was my scheme (and before that, my PM-chain) that implicated him in the first place and I have a hard time imagining how Reading survived that kill C1 unless Gears is an elim... But it's true that I read him very strong village. Basically I've been super confused about everything this whole game, and also I claimed to like three different people and have been assuming at least one of them was elim because there's no way I'm that lucky. But two of them--Ash and Reading--are dead now, and the third--Gears--is... well, I have no idea what he is.

I can confirm that everything Gears has said, except possibly that he is TLR and scanned TJ, is true. I was the one who RBd him, and I started the chain through Ash (the first person I claimed to). I'm aware that my actions thus far have been... contradictory at best, but I've been working with partial, contradictory, and constantly changing information, and I've done the best with what I have.

The only way I think that could be the case is if the elims have an RBer and decided to sow chaos by saving an innocent villager that they targeted. but that seems rather convoluted.

What outcomes? And what information?

Well, Reading was an obligator, so this cycle we lynch Gears Also, somehow Ash knew he would be targeted. He messaged me just before rollover and asked me to look into something for him if he died.

They've likely already submitted that

Ohhhh right I based mine off of that one so that's why I missed your vote. Sorry!

Because a vote mover has claimed to me and someone else told me they're in contact with a vote *re*mover

Actually I'm pretty sure there are two.

Danex: Sart, Ventyl, Fadran Gears: Somebody, TJ, Whysper Fadran: Reading, Kings Reading: Quinn, Ash, Gears, Connie Quinn: Ghander

Basically, either Gears is a very clever elim who figures the best way to deflect suspicion now is going with a plan that could definitively prove his alignment, or Gears is a villager and hopes lynching Reading will prove that.

XD fair enough... I'm trying to avoid that, so hopefully I'm not utterly, irrevocably wrong about the situation. Edit: Also I won't be on from 1 to like 1:45ish... (that is to say, from 15 minutes from now until an hour from now). I have a college interview, so...

Who will Danex give us info on? And I still contend that Reading will give us more certain info than Gears. So unless someone can give me a good, hard solid reason why we shouldn't vote Reading rather than Gears, which I have yet to see, I can't imagine why any of you would have any objection to lynching Reading. Edit: After all, what do any of us have to lose?

Ventyl, I get what you're saying about Danex, but the thing is, Danex could easily have meant well and just not thought it through or realized how chaotic it could get. And before you say that several people pointed that out, if the RBer (or the elim pretending to be the RBer) saw the first post, at that point it wasn't up to Danex what that person did. I would guess that the moment Danex posted about it, it was out of their hands, regardless what anyone else said, regardless of whether Danex is elim or not. So, that means that, like I said, Danex is a shot in the dark. Reading is not. Reading may be village, and if he is I apologize for the mislynch, but we will get solid information from his death either way.

Oh, wow. I swear I can type you guys! Edit: I fixed it. It now says what it was supposed to, "spiked elim"

Keeping in mind that I was the first person who *voted* for Fadran? I have nothing in particular for or against Danex, and I'm certainly not trying to protect them. Also I would argue that focusing on Danex and Fadran is distracting from lynches that could actually give us information. Those two are just shots in the dark, and we have no concrete evidence that something sus is actually going on with them. With Reading, though, we very very much do.

Because if we kill Gears and he's elim, that doesn't actually tell us anything about Reading. Reading could be a villager, but it doesn't rule out that possibility that he was an elim who was WGGd by someone else other than Gears. And I'm actually inclined to think that WGG is more likely than you seem to think it is. If you're a spiked elim, and the village lynches you, then you're immediately in trouble. Since you survived, and since lynches can't be RBd 'cause how would that work, you must be either elim or TLR. You can get away with claiming TLR for maybe one round, but when the elims don't immediately kill you, enough of the village will likely assume you're spiked or elim-aligned that you'll get lynched and die. However, if you pull a WGG first turn, when no one expects it, then you essentially buy yourself permanent immunity. I mean, if we'd ended up lynching Reading first turn and he'd survived, he have been lynched last cycle or this cycle. As it is, he's already survived mostly without suspicion, so unless we choose to lynch him this turn, the plan has payed off pretty well, wouldn't you say? That doesn't mean I'm firmly convinced that the elims actually did that, but it could work out better for them than everyone's really been thinking.

You're missing the point, Whysper. I'm not suggesting that we lynch Reading because he's necessarily an elim. I'm suggesting that we lynch him because if he *isn't* an elim, it'll tell us who is. Basically, we need more information and this is a way to get it.

It doesn't matter. They would take the chance, since they lose nothing if they kill elim-TLR except the occasional extra vote, but if they kill village-TLR they get rid of the village's only alignment scanner, and they get rid of the village's PMs. Because lynching Reading either kills an elim, or gives us the identity of one (since if Reading isn't an elim then Gears must be). Edit: And allow me to point out that if we lynch Reading and he's TLR, it probably means that *I'm* an elim, so that also gives you info.

How carefully did you read my previous post? Here's why Reading isn't TLR: Edit: Also why did you rank the RB as the most likely option? It was first cycle, so no one actually knew anything. Especially since, as someone pointed out, Matrim claims there are fewer elims than usual this time because of the spiked feature, the likelihood of the only RBer who says they RBd guessing the one person who submitted the kill is less likely than the person submitting the kill guessing TLR (since the person submitting the kill knows the other elims and thus has fewer people to guess from). As for the WGG, we don't know how probable it is that they would do that. It seems unlikely they would take a risk like that so early on, but since we don't know who the elims are, we can't guess how likely they all are to take that kind of risk.

Well, if the plan doesn't work for whatever reason, you know to lynch me next.