|TJ|

That would be to prove that an elim is a villager. I was thinking if they want to frame a villager holding Shadowblaze, they'd have to said what I said above. But yeah, it's a bad idea, creating too many IKYK scenarios. Shadowblaze in hands of elim increasing chalking strength was the crucial point, and it's not actually like that. They said this in QF50 as well, iirc. :P. Let me just completely my thought there which was interrupted because I ran away with my idea. :P. @Ashbringer, because this was a reply to you. I was going to say "I swear I'm going to be so annoyed if I get the Shadowblaze and you snatch it from me for RP reasons" :P. And then I thought - "at least let me get cleared and then you can snatch it". And then I thought, "we can use that to clear you too" and then so on and ran with the idea :P. Araris, Avron - Buckets of Acid (2). Araris, Kas, TUO - Warding (3) = 5 Shadowblaze does not return to the camp. It is destroyed if the person holding it dies. Ninja'd by like 10 posts -.-

Well Kas just pointed out in a PM that I've I mis-remembered the rules. I thought Shadowblaze in the hands of the elims would give +1 strength to chalkings, but it actually gives -1 strength to the camp. -.- My bad. Okay see if we can work with this. For an elim to falsely blame a villager with Shadowblaze, 2 elims should falsely claim to have protected the camp and they wouldn't. Will they do it? I'm not sure if that's likely. But it does require coordination. Edit: Ninja'd by Kas :P.

Yes, that's why I'm not focusing on the strength of the camp, which would be susceptible to elim manipulation. I've telling we should focus on the strength of the chalkings which is told to us at the beginning of every Night turn. There is no way to manipulate that other than an ML (which we can keep track of) or Shadowblaze, which in the hands of an elim gives +1 strength to chalkings.

Oh, I see. All this to try for the Shadowblaze, and failing which, you get to know the person who took it and snatch it from them xD Ash, I swear I'm going to be so annoyed if you - HEY, I just thought of a brilliant idea of using Shadowblaze as an alignment scanner! Every cycle we can pass it to someone who we think is a villager. If the strength of the chalkings doesn't increase more than expected, we can hard-clear them as village! Of course, the aim of this is more to hard-clear villagers than to find elims because then we would have to deliberately give it to suspected people and if they're elims then it's out of our hands, but then Ash (if he's village) or normal revocation can be used to get it back and now we've found an elim. Thoughts? Is it.. game break-y?

@StrikerEZ. Could you reply to the stuff that I've quoted you about here. Especially about 'using the momentum' part? @The Unknown Order, could you give an answer to this? I disagree with Ash btw. Better if elims don't know who has Shadowblaze so they cannot Revoke it. If the elims have it we'll get to know it because we know what the strength of the wild chalkings should be and if it's greater than that, it means they have it. Condensation Their initial vote on Mat, which they claimed as joke didn't feel like that to me. Only once Illwei called them out did they tell it was a joke, in a less than convincing way.

Defense was 6.

Lmaooo this is actually hilarious xD Illwei sorta tried to kill herself? xD I make it 8-6 for Mat with the Bribe, someone else removes a vote from Illwei to make it 7-6, and she removed the Archer vote which was on her to make it 6-6 hahahaha xD

I started the game with a Bribe, and used it to force Archer to vote alongside me. As I said, wouldn't make sense for us to vote out Illwei first, because of the Mat -> Illwei connection instead of the other way around. Edit: smh ninja'd I just wasted my Bribe, didn't I? -__-

If Illwei flips vil you guys are just gonna go for Mat again. -.-

Fair enough. Matrim's Dice before Illwei. The other way around doesn't make sense.

Can someone quickly summarize why there's a train on Mat and why people moved off Archer?

I agree with the basic idea of it, which is to not trust people based on item possession on its own. I thought it was common knowledge, but I'll not be clearing people with Lantern or LoW on that info alone. My village reason you is completely independent of you grabbing the Lantern. The Lantern just supplements. Likewise, I have reasons to suspect TUO, despite them drawing LoW. Item possession should be used as secondary to supplement the primary source of reads. I think your comparison doesn't hold good. You're linking two completely different things though. Jumping on votes is something that elims do. Stating firm directly contradictory statements is not. These are two different things.

xD do we or do we not have a kill lmao :P. Also, protects can also be action scanned, which I didn't think of when writing the post, so if I was lying, I'd be caught in a lie too :P.

I'm not even offering you up for the elimination?? I just said that I'll be rescinding my previous village read of you which I had given after reading till the end of N1. I'm not even reading you as an elim, I didn't mention elim!Ventyl anywhere. No more village read is not equal to elim read. It means more like back to the drawing board.

The reasoning on Gears: Claim, Claim, Claim :P.

Mat, we've learnt not to make assumptions based on distro guesses, yeah? xD And well, it makes sense for elim you to reveal it because it's a chance to save yourself by revealing you had an important item, which is what you did. Now, if elim!you weren't up for elimination, I agree that you wouldn't have spoken up or used it. But you were up for it, and did use the item as an out. Sort of a sacrifice, you save your life but have to draw a Line of Warding. Edit: Have to add a protect to the camp, not draw a LoW -.- What reasoning would Ash give for voting on Gears though? I don't think Ash could have voted on Gears without picking up suspicion, and that could be one of the reasons why elim!Ash would not have wanted to vote on village!Gears.

Confirmation, if it was ever required. This is Kas, TUO and Mat's Acid, yeah? I don't recall you mentioning it. Have you? Lesser camp protects, lesser kill protects, lesser roleblocks, lesser action scans This post, sigh. If you think Mat is an elim, and Illwei saved Mat, it's Mat -> Illwei connection, not Illwei -> Mat connection as a villager who is uncomfortable Mat/Gears could have started it as well. Besides, I read Mat as village too from the posts this cycle, and I read Quinn as village as well. Thing is, this outlandish jumping to conclusion, I really don't think it's the action of an elim ._. Let me be clear, I'm not reading you as village either, I'm just confused about you. But this, in particular, doesn't seem like an elim move. Matrim, you were the one who told she was continuing her RP from sign-ups. I read this as similar to my thief claim. What exactly did Archer contribute? He made two posts of note, one which told he's going for bribe preemptively, and one in which he said he isn't voting for the main wagons and votes on Illwei, both these I'm not exactly comfortable. So, what is the good bit he contributed? I thought you didn't want me to talk about it xD On a serious note, I don't think an elim would lie about it as it's the easiest way to get caught by crab users - much easier lies would be "protected myself" or "protected someone else" Bolded wording very very weird. She used that momentum? No one followed that vote on Dannex till 4? hours later and Illwei did not speak about Dannex again. No other push on the vote. What is this momentum? Disagree with the reasoning for the read. Could be the kill was blocked/protected and he was trying to move away from that. This whole post reads very much retroactive. Like a lots of things are "I had thought-" and "This was my thinking-" well why didn't you say so at the time? "It looked like a v/v wagon" why didn't you say so? "my gut said Matrim was a mis-vote" well you didn't say a thing after initially mentioning Matrim was the suspicious of the village nulls. This paragraph sounds structured to make the past!you look good, when you did not say any of the things in the thread. You did that exact same thing. :P. My problem is not the fact that you grabbed the bribe. It's how you tried to reason it off as village. There were 6 bribes in the supply. The thief could have picked from those. I see absolutely no reason for you to offer it to the thief other than to appear non-threatening with the bribe and appear as village. The thief has no reason to believe you too. The continued insistence to get robbed reads very weird to me. Reading Reading as village Very easy to fake this post, but it reads an genuine to me. Village points for this. I've been trying to not elim-read Lotus a lot for her only RPing throughout the game, but this post just screams elim. I think @Sart sees the doubts asked in the thread (this one by Kas in particular), and phrases the questions himself and gives answers to them. At least that's how his clarifications seemed to me. The questions seem very formal, all of them. So I assume he's been phrasing them himself. I used Line of Forbidden to protect myself too and I did not ask that in my GM PM, so it's either he phrases the questions himself or we have a 3rd LoF self-protector. If any outed crab users saw someone target me, we probably have a suspect. Ash, what exactly are you trying to say here? That she didn't exactly forget her actions? That she lied about forgetting her actions and she actually did use an action? If she lied about her forgetting her actions, what is your assumption that she used? Would an elim blatantly lie about forgetting an action, whereupon they could be easily caught if scanned? I don't see why Elim!Illwei has any reason to lie about not using an action. I really do not like this train on Illwei. Reasons: STINK (Math), Striker (vote based on lots of assumptions and jumping to conclusions and tied to two other player), Archer (mainly for starting Dannex vote), Ventyl (jumped on Archer's reasoning) and Ash (whole lotta stuff). From what we've seen so far, I only see Illwei being an elim if Mat is one. Not because she started the Dannex vote, but more because Mat's been sly-defending Illwei, i.e. defending without actually defending, but this is like a stretch scenario because reading Mat as vil right now. And I'm really not into the contradiction reason. It's such a silly mistake, way too foolish for an elim to make. Literally no reason for elim!Illwei to make the post saying "villagers will not go for the book", I don't see how an elim could make a big slip such as this after continually saying they're going for the said book. And now Striker's confirmed that she had told him the plan so elims don't get their hands on it preemptively, not after, like in thread. @Illwei, I don't recall suspicions on anyone, who are your top suspicions? Archer. Suspicious of Lotus. Very mild elim read on the bystander. they were quiet rping till they are voted on upon which a quick response was given. New player, hence very mild elim read. No more elim read on TUO because of the camp protect, but still find their item analysis very obvious. Like yes, everyone agrees with it, but that's because it's mainly stating the obvious. So agreeing with it, != village read. Also, would like to know why they changed from their initial plan of just using LoF to protect themselves. No more village read on Ventyl for jumping on Archer's reasoning. Ash is village on the whole, but that one point of "Archer contributed a good bit in D1" is nagging me. Striker... is really sticking with the "found half the elim team" theory. I really don't know, confused.

Okay been a bit busy of late. So I've been mainly chilling in PMs. I was out the entire day yesterday, still not caught with Day 1 stuff as I'm writing this. Will be re-reading the thread as I write this post: These two posts from @The Unknown Order and @Archer concerns me as it looks like they're trying to appear too villager-y. It comes off as unnaturally trying to be villagery for the sake of getting village reads from others. Somewhere around here the 1/4 - 1/5 odds plan is proposed. My main problem with this is how easy it is for elims to get away with it. They can easily try to go along with the plan, and then, just not protect the camp and lie and tell "whoops, sorry gods of luck and chance didn't favor me" I don't think elims, irrespective of whether Striker is one or not, went for a @Quinn0928 (reading Quinn as village for now) kill after reading this. This post would give the feeling that Quinn is most definitely protecting herself. Quinn's mega-post here here feels very village. Makes solid points against Mat. just keeping it here if i need it because it does look like you've survived and people have brushed you off? Somewhere in between is Archer's vote on Illwei, which I found weird. Reading Mat and Illwei as not E/E because of the "i wanna die" "no you wanna live" "but what's the point" "point is you live" conversation :P. Reason of Dannex - Not speaking (Illwei), Preference (Ash), ??? (Burnt), Self pres (Mat), Preference (Quinn), preference? (Ventyl) Delayed reaction but - Y'all just... killed an inactive because he wasn't active???? This post from @Illwei reads village to me. The thought process leading to the conclusion that you'd want to prove you blocked an elim kill seems more likely from a villager than an elim. And there's some stuff about Illwei wanting book of vigor earlier, but I should really read the rest of the cycle to give coherent thoughts. This read is for the post only. Found TUO's item analysis sorta obvious/non-commit-y/weird. Solid point from Devotary. Overall reading Devotary as village (all other posts combined, not just this one). I just hit one of the bookmarks by accident and I was about to yell in frustration, but thankfully, shard restored the contents of the post. Not wanting to tease fate, I'm going to post it as is. I have stuff from this cycle to read left, which I'll complete later I'm having a headache right now As I said, not super coherent. Will organize my thoughts properly after catching up. For now, reads: Village: Quinn, Ventyl, Devotary, Ash Evil: TUO, Archer ????: Striker, Matrim

hey hey aren't you supposed to not know rithmatics? why do you want books for?

Why? Any particular reason?

I believe misunderstanding stems from seeing things from different viewpoints. I think it's fairly reasonable for a villager to correctly understand that Alv meant going for books might make you a kill target. You misunderstanding it as "elims want powerful stuff and hence they'll go for books" is a thought possible to have arisen from an elim viewpoint. Hence, the vote.

HEY???? Also Matrim's Dice. The target on the back meaning in danger from elims, an since you are putting the said target on his back, he is in danger from you. Edited to include quote.

Hey, let's start with something small eh? Can't be going around stealing hearts from the get go, lest they.. err get distracted from playing the game ;), Needs a lot of sweet talkin', ya see. So by the time all is said and done, I hope to have stolen some hearts :P. Say, do you want me to steal someone's heart for ya? I'm as good as a matchmaker as I am a thief! :D.

Hehehe, I told I'm RPing as a thief in the sign-ups

*tip toe tip toe tip toe* *looks left* *looks right* *steals the vote* Kasimir I stole that vote, it's now null and void