Mat

How about you, are you vill?

Leaning village, see my reads list from last turn. But the real question is how will I read you Wiz might be talking about her Mistborn and Thug claims but I thought both of those were obvious jokes. The MB one certainly was at least.

Guess it counted >>

Agh Turtle

Someone tell me if I should break the tie or not Edit: Idk why I’m hesitating loool I distinctly read Stick more village than turtle but something about a three minute timer makes me not want to touch it

Some negotiation tactic :P. That would force me to vote you which I’d rather not do

Fair warning I’ll probably move to Turtle if the VC stays as it is. I’d rather Stick not die, but I don’t have a super strong turtle read so I’ll stay on Cin for now.

He says, causing a four way tie

It is done Cinnamon. I'd rather not have to self pres on Stick, please don't make me do that :P. Edit: And here's a VC which is hopefully accurate: Mat (2): Stick, JNV Stick (3): Silvereye, Wiz, TUN Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist Cinnamon (2): Bookwyrm, Mat Xino (1): Illwei Devotary (1): Alvron Bookwyrm (1): Devotary shadow (1): Xino

Here's my reads list, up to date. Sorry I accidentally posted this before I'd actually started :P. Wiz: Idk, is it cowardly for me to just want to sheep everyone seeming to village read Wiz? I don't want to though. I don't think his cases have felt real to me and they've been eh at best, but the effort is there so I suppose that's something. E lean but the kind that feels like a self aware tunnel and I don't really like it. Conq: I thought his posting was fine, there's just so much less of it. That could be alignment indicative, but I also feel like activity influenced by alignment is different than activity influenced by IRL, and this feels more like the latter to me in that I think hesitant e!Conq would be posting more than none at all. For me that balances to Null but I do hope he comes back. TUN: Similar to Wiz in that I'm kind of surprised by the amount of village reads TUN is receiving, but his posting today has convinced me more. I like his recent interaction with Stick and he generally reads more sincere to me today. Sliiight v lean. Illwei: I'm just so confused about Illwei's progression, like the only player she's even talked about is xino and it's been [v read -> e casing -> walkback of casing and xino defense -> voting xino today] and that's so bizarre to me it's hard for me not to read that as elim even though I feel like I shouldn't for some reason. Null- I guess. Idk. Shining: With the addition of feeling sort of unnerved by his defense of me (thanks though :P) my read here is the same as yesterday: A paranoid village read. More PMing and time has leaned me more in that direction and part of me wants to just let go of the paranoia entirely but that'd be... irresponsible :P. Cinnamon: A few things have pinged me about Cinnamon, mainly to do with their voting. C1 had a plain retaliation vote on Ash that just stuck, and then today his progression regarding me and turtle doesn't fit together. Example: Cin expressed equal suspicion of me and turtle, and then Shining provided a defense of me and TUN provided a defense of turtle. Cin ignored Shining, but thanked TUN and voted me. They unvoted once I pointed it out, but that stinks of an agenda to me. Lean elim. I acknowledge there's an argument of newness but I feel like that can only be taken too far, and for me the thing Stick is basing her village read on isn't all that clearing. JNV: As much as I think it's weird they wrote an essay about me and barely anything about anyone else, the post itself I like in its effort. I'd argue their conclusions are factually wrong and they misinterpreted the list entirely, but I don't think that's what I should use my time on, if anyone wants that for some reason shoot me and @ and I'll oblige but for now I'll just leave it at that and a Null+. No actually wait. It is odd to me that JNV wrote that much about me and then just skimmed over the others. Like that reads like JNV went into the post intending to case me and once they did just quickly did the rest. I'd appreciate other thoughts about this since I feel that I, as the subject of their post, am a bad person to dissect that. Demoted to Null though :P. shadow: I had it somewhere in the back of my mind that I leaned elim on shadow but then I went and reread her posts and I don't really. Like, I can see xino's arguments, but I think in the end I'd agree with her post directly below this one. Overall her vibes are good and the level of disengaged doesn't seem intentional. Lean village. Archivist: I liked that they started to try to contribute more, but the more that post becomes an oddity instead of a change the more it looks like they were coached to have made it. Null for now, could go either way. Opting to focus on the leading trains only feels like a village-minded decision for a new player, though. Silvereye: Have they posted today? Once, okay. Yesterday Silvereye had a retaliation vote and a walkback, and I'm of Stick's mind that it doesn't look great... then today voting Stick for voting without reason reads like an unspoken retaliation with a touch of hypocrisy. Hmm. Slight elim, I think. Dannnnnnex: Dannex saying a big post was coming and then never supplying it could be read either way. I think in the realm of "elim leans apparently I am the only one who has" Dannex falls in between TUN and Wiz for me, and I'd lean more village than elim since I can see the village casings some people have put out for him so I guess Null+ but if he was a train today I wouldn't be mad. xino: The low temperature of yesterday and the kind of deadpan honestly behind xino's explanation posts have me leaning village and I'd rather not go the infokill route since like that never has actually supplied the desired info. Try to find one time it worked as planned, I'll wait :P. Devo: She seems to still be holding onto Shining/xino as elimmier reads which I suppose I can't fault her for. As I and Kas have mentioned I think her EoD posts reflect a mindset found more often in a villager and that's good enough for a village lean but I am painfully aware of how talented e!Devo is so there's that :P. Bookwyrm: It's interesting because I look at Devo and JNV's arguments for e!Bookwyrm and I'm like, yes? But also those are... kind of the reasons I v!read them. JNV's culture shock argument instead reads to me like Bookwyrm is villagery disengaged and I think an elim new player would be afraid to go against the grain, and Devo's points can apply to ignorant newness as much as they can for an elim. The fact that I'd cite the same things to village read them as are cited to elim read them makes this a perspective deviation which I think happens more often when the person in question is a villager. Village lean. I don't think this is the same as where I said you can only take newness so far in regards to Cin, it doesn't seem to me like Bookwyrm is overdoing anything whereas Cin was demonstrateably inconsistent. Turtle: I want turtle to be village like I appreciate her efforts but also it's true they've been kinda self turned and minimalistic. Idk maybe I'm expecting too much but I feel like as much as this makes sense to be v!turtle it makes sense to be e!turtle. Not null, just... both? :P. Stick: I'm slightly miffed she accused me half on the grounds of not being paranoid because I was pretty relieved to find myself not, but I think that sentence more than anything from her made me want to start to get paranoid. Is that normal? I don't know if that's normal. But no, I still like her bouncy votes and what they did to help the D1 thread and she seems to be sincerely trying to solve me in PMs and I hope she gets there I feel like anyone trying to push her for her D1 votes gets a minus one village point from me but I don't remember who that is lol. Villagery. Alv: Yeah I don't even feel bad about derp clearing Alv for not knowing there wasn't vote manip since I feel like that's something the elim doc would have gone over unless there's no elim soother or rioter. And even then. I think an existence of an elim soother/rioter clears Alv even further but there's no way to know about that right now. Village lean. Variant Two: Wouldn't Mind If They Died (Not Necessarily Who I'd Vote Though): Wiz, Conq, TUN, Illwei, Cin, JNV, Archivist, Silvereye, Dannex, Turtle Would Mind If They Died (AKA Definitely Won't Vote): Shining, shadow, xino, Devo, Bookwyrm, Stick, Alv Variant Three, AKA Typical Tier List: Stick/Shining/Alv/xino Bookwyrm/Devo shadow TUN/Conq JNV/Archivist/Dannex Turtle/Illwei/Wiz Silvereye/Cin Ah hmm I don't like that my bottom tier is two new players. Whatever, I'll probably end up voting in self pres anyway >> Vote in my next post.

Did you see Kas’ v!Devo casing, near the ending of N1? If not, he basically took a deep look at the exact voting timestamps between Shining and Devo specifically and argued that the consistency Devo had in her reads while making vote changes in a highly charged EoD points more towards v!Devo, and I’m inclined to agree with that read— maybe because I helped him figure out the timestamps in our PM, but I think it’s a decent enough read for right now. Ngl I kinda want to clear Alv for this >>

I'd be curious to see what 'other things' you mean, as those two things you quoted are 1.) an already explained inside joke and 2.) A full-blown joke that's completely NAI. So. Not a very compelling case. What made you reconsider turtle so quickly when TUN corrected you, but you ignored Shining's correction about me? Additionally, the first thing is just exactly what Stick quoted, which makes me think you just grabbed that as a sheep :P. Tbh I probably could case Cin if I wanted to but it's still a bit early to try to kill a new player :P. Reads list... tomorrow. Yeah. I'll have time tomorrow morning. Edit: Adding VC Mat (2): Stick, Cinnamon Stick (1): Silvereye Turtle (2): shadow, Archivist Cinnamon (1): Bookwyrm Edit 2: Adding Bookwyrm’s vote, which I was forgot

That statement comes from a kind of inside joke I have with Kas, actually-- in the past, I've been overly critical about Kas's D1 rando votes and gotten a light berating from Kas about it. It'd be like, I'd call him out for it and ask why he voted the way he did, but then it ends up just being a reaction test sort of thing and Kas is annoyed since I ruined it :P. I went through a similar phase with Illwei's votes as well. So I both assumed it was that straightaway this time (hence my "assume I understand") but then I also PMd him about it and he explained it there more clearly before saying his reasons to thread. I get there's technically no way to prove that, but there it is. When you understand the inside joke I was referencing I think that line makes a lot more sense, but I get how it can appear the way you interpreted it otherwise. And because I village read you I'm suspicious? I was more interested in getting a feel for why you thought the way I did than exploring straightaway whether I thought you were evil for it, and I kinda just gut read you village for most of D1 anyway. I thought your jumpy votes were a good way to keep the pressure moving and force the thread to be awake and that seemed like a village move. I'm sorry if I didn't immediately jump to paranoiding you but I kind of thought it was nice to have someone to talk to

That doesn’t really mean anything, as both Ash and xino were voting in self preservation (that is to say, they voted the other train purely to survive, and it didn’t matter who the person they were voting was). Edit: @Turtle they are yeah

Thanks for answering my question everyone (though a serious thanks to the ones who actually did) Reads list before the end of the cycle for sure, but I procrastinated a lot more than I should have yesterday and need to make up some of that time. At the very least you can do me the courtesy of explaining yourself

Some questions to get us started: @everyone-- stance on xino? This is something that should be a topic of discussion I think, but not one that takes up the whole turn. There's an argument to the usefulness of infokilling him so that we know whether or not last cycle's EoD was v/v or v/e, but honestly I think I slightly lean village at this point since the whole Illwei thing has been cleared up. Sort of. I gather that her original e!xino point was just wrong, but I'm still way more unsure about that than I'd like to be. And outside that I don't have a strong reason to read either way. I'll look at his posts from this game later. But I think I'd be against a straight infokill. Everyone making a stance on xino either way would be helpful, though. Secondly, @Conquestor, I'm curious about your xino vote in particular, but more so about your other reads and general thoughts on the game, after being notably absent last turn. Conq's usually much more vocal which I think could be significant but I'd like to give him a chance to contribute before I formally suspect him for it. I'm also curious where @Alvron and @shadow1's thoughts lie. An updated reads list will come later, probably tomorrow morning but maybe tonight. I'll be around tonight either way, though. Adam stared at the smoked wreckage of the inn, feeling hollow. He hadn't ever been one for tears, and this was no exception to that rule, but... rusts. Koren. He turned away. Now was no time to be sentimental. The Spiked had shown they didn't mind striking where they knew it would hurt; there was no pretending with them. No phantom killer knifing the quiet town members in the dark to prolong an air of mystery. The inn had been a gathering place, a refuge of warmth where everyone could come for a drink and forget about tomorrow. There would be no more of that. Adam was no expert on Hemalurgy when it came to humans, but he knew Koloss. To him, it didn't matter how the things were made, or where they came from, just how they acted. Their spikes drove them mad. They thirsted for violence, the lust only strengthening with each kill. They were maniacs. If the Spiked infesting Tyrian were anything like them-- but with added subtlety-- he didn't know how they stood a chance. Because there are patterns to their ruin, he reminded himself. And I know them. At least where Koloss are concerned. The two creatures had to be similar. They had to be. He allowed himself to think of Koren and his hearth, one last time. His resolve strengthened, and he clenched a fist. "If I have to pull apart every Tyrian brick to purge this place of evil," he said, "then I will." With a fire burning in his chest unlike anything he'd ever known, Adam started for Town Square. There was a lot of work to be done, but he didn't have to do it alone.

I do love those charts, yeah xD That’s a noticeable difference from the N1 low info kill meta we’ve seen recently, which might be able to tell us something about the team. Or if anyone wants to go through Kas’ posts to look for anything, I wish you good luck There might be something telling, or Kas might have been killed for being Kas. It’s hard to say. But there is a lot there for you. Turtle beat me to the Mando (I think it’s Mando) but that’s cause I was trying to look it up and don’t have it memorized Anyway I gtg for a bit but I’ll be back

I didn't notice the signpost, to be fair. And I didn't consider the TUN train as viable at all for reasons I already mentioned-- it was only there from a self vote, and the thread mood thusfar seemed to be village leaning TUN and had already showed disinterest in sustaining his train. I'm realizing now that Conq and Stick both had votes, but when I mentioned them it wasn't because of their votes. That's... an honest coincidence xD I mentioned them because of their relation to xino (which is apparent in the parenthesis after I mentioned them). I mentioned Bookwyrm because it was my intention that they survived, and Ash because he was the other train with multiple votes. Does that make sense? I get how that can be confusing lol. But I wasn't intending to discuss all the people with votes in that paragraph, otherwise I... would have :P. It would have been me dismissing TUN for the reasons I said in the first paragraph of this post, but it would have been there. As mentioned, I'd missed JNV's apparent willingness for a TUN train and just remembered the unvotes and general village reads of him. I didn't mention TUN because he was self voting and was as much of a zero train as Dannex or JNV for me. And yeah, just because I didn't explicitly say that I was fine with TUN/Dannex/JNV doesn't mean that I wasn't :P.

Can I ask why you're signaling TUN out from my Null- reads? Over JNV and Dannex I mean, both of which I slotted lower in the tier list. Not to mention Cinnamon, Silvereye, and then xino who was the lowest, though to be fair Cin/Silver are new and therefore were off the table. My goal in voting was to help consolidate, help get Bookwyrm out of hot water, as well as vote somewhere I felt comfortable with, and xino was the only option that effectively did all three. JNV, Dannex, and TUN all effectively had no votes (TUN's single vote at the time of my megapost was cast by himself, so it wasn't considered) and so while I read them as more elim than not they wouldn't have accomplished what I was trying to by voting. If when you say 'early option' you mean when TUN had votes other than himself, at that time I didn't really have a read on TUN. It didn't really manifest until I reread the thread in preparation for making the reads list. I don't know where you got that I'd rather have gone for Ash than TUN. All I said was that I wasn't directly opposed to Ash going over (ie. I didn't have a village read on him, he was null) and that I'd vote Ash over Bookwyrm (who I did have a village lean on). If TUN had been a serious train at that point I definitely would have voted there over Ash, though probably not over xino. But to me everyone voting TUN, then unvoting indicated a disinterest in that route, and tbh I feel a bit isolated in leaning elim on TUN when everyone else seems to village lean him.

Kas is always that high effort :P.

I did, or at least I alluded to it: The bolded there I think is something you missed; the fact that yes, I was interacting with Kas about the assumption but I didn't know how wrong it was (and still really don't! Though I guess the consensus is that it is wrong?). That more than anything else is my fault for not fact checking Illwei. Kas had stated the assumption was wrong but that was the first time that notion had reached me and I didn't know what to believe since there were like five minutes left and I didn't see any reason for Ash to die :P. And then also here I'd already justified it based on agreeing with Illwei on something that I remembered to vaguely be true (and at the very least, xino'd already posted more than he had almost the entirety of last game) but I guess it turns out that not only was it not true at all, but Illwei didn't think it was true either and she was the one who said it. In retrospect voting someone for 'something someone else said that's probably true I think' is kinda bad but whatever, that reason is better than no reason for Ash :P. This is how rumors get started, people

Casting a vote isn’t elim behavior, it’s normal behavior

Erm. Ok then >> Currently about to start XC so I can’t say much. Hopefully something can be gleaned from all that— looking at Shining/Devo at a glance but we’ll see if those hold up under scrutiny.

RNG is fine with me since there’s no reason for me to condemn Ash and definitely not enough time to figure out how valid Illwei’s e!xino take actually is Ok nvm Shining. And Devo. Didnt you change your mind about xino…? (Directed at Shining)

I guess my question now is was the mischaracterization really that bad. Because I didn’t think it was— hence my vote— and we’ve discussed my memory with regards to things like this enough already, but if it really was that bad then I’m not sure if I want to be voting here at all Ninjad by you Edit: @Illwei I really don’t understand your xino stance If you village read him, then is there a reason you’re not on Ash? If you elim read him, then why not vote him? Those apply to the whole turn too but right now is when votes gotta happen I guess I have some notion that you voting will clear your stance up in my head which is probably false lol