Mat

Typo smh Clearly meant to welcome @Sart to the towncore, these S names are confusing

Ok yeah there’s no wiggle room there lol Tbh I think if Stick is replaced again (or killed) then you’re fine, the switch was made before this came to GM attention so this doesn’t reveal anything. (?)

Because until now, I was mobile-only Ok, first replying to JNV from last turn: The difference for me was in the timing. Baker voted Illwei before Illwei was an exe candidate and vanished from the cycle, while Bort voted Illwei when it was Devo:4 and Illwei:2, effectively putting Illwei back into contention. It's not a clear, but it's something. Well, it wasn't Baker, it was Illwei who apparently used the wrong color, and I don't really fault Tani for making that mistake because I trust it was a mistake, not a deliberate lie. A deliberate lie would be weird in that scenario because there'd be 2-4 others who could point it out. I ah Realize I was part of the group suspecting Bort for this but I also just realized that it's completely backwards :P. In the MR, Orlok suspected (bussed) Bort, and one of the main points against Bort there was that he was faking not knowing the terms. I'm not certain if he was faking the terms, but if so, that would mean that he feasibly could remember something from before and this wouldn't be suspicious. We talked it over in the doc, that's what Bort is referring to here. In addition to the thread stuff that's sort of there (but really can be interpreted either way) there's also some doc things that are pushing my read a lot more into village territory- I likely won't vote Bort but go ahead. I'm not sure if that has to imply there's an elim in each Empire, since the team seemed to be fond of subverting expectations (See: Illwei pushing for the ArcherBus theory, the ArcherBus theory being accurate to begin with). Mostly I just really want my Empire to be pure I mean, there's some wiggle room. Technically Sibling could have submitted the kill while absent from the thread and technically there could be two elims left, I don't think either of those things are likely but they are possible and I feel like if the slot needed to be modkilled they would have just done that instead of replacing Sibling. I feel like Baker is a good exe but... not a good misexe, if that makes sense? I want to keep my options open anyway, and my PoE is now one which isn't a good thing at (theoretically) 8-1 :P. So I'm expanding to [Baker, Tani, JNV] with Bort hovering around it. @The Baker, @Tani, thoughts?

@_Stick_ welcome to the towncore Edit: Cmon guys the thread shouldn’t be dead right now we have to finish the game

Meant to post this last night, sorry :P. Slightly expecting to be the NK target, though there are multiple other people that also would make sense. One more thread look-through for now, to put something out there in case I don't live through the Night. First, a look at the VCs, with the unflipped players bolded: Day 1: Kas and Devo can be cleared from this alone, but there are other things that clear them later as well. A double-bus would be crazy, imo a single bus already was but idk I don't think Baker or TJ's votes are suspicious in the sense of saving Archer. TJ's wasn't made with the intent to save Archer since a Devo vote would have saved Archer and TJ voted Thaid, and Baker's came before Archer was in danger at all. Day 2: Baker can't be cleared from this since they voted Illwei prior to Illwei actually becoming a viable option. Bort, on the other hand, voted Illwei when the trains were 4-2, putting Illwei back in contention. I don't want to clear Bort for this, but it's a good look that I had forgotten about and makes me feel better about his slot. Other notes not reflected in the count- Tani had voted Illwei, but unvoted as soon as Illwei became a candidate. I actually read her conversation with Illwei as not e/e so I'm not sure how to view this. Would appreciate other thoughts on this particular point. Sibling came out of nowhere to vote Devotary as Illwei became a candidate, something I find strange since they provided no reasoning and have been absent from the game before and since. @JNV, did Sibling give any indication of a reason for this vote in the doc, and have they said anything villagery in the doc? (Or anything at all?) Day 3: More reasons Devo is absolutely cleared And more reasons to be eh about Bort and Tani, though to be completely fair their votes came well before shadow was even being discussed. This last minute exe thing sure seems to be working well but comes with the drawbacks of the elims not having time to give cues in their reactions to said last minute exes :P. (Then again, I caught shadow because of reactions to the last minute exes so maybe I should stop complaining). But there's actually nothing to hold against Bort or Tani here I guess unless you just want to blame them for voting a villager in general :P. And again with TJ last-minute abstaining from an elim exe but he also continues to have satisfactory reasons so that's okay? xD Don't like Baker's vote. Hmm. lt's tunnelly. shadow sorta-ISO / connections: Bort poke voted shadow D1, before shadow posted, and e!Bort poke voted e!Aman in the MR that just concluded in the same way. Could potentially mean something, I think, though I have other reasons to v read Bort (Doc things, Illwei vote) In shadow's first post, she elim read Archer (teammate), Illwei (teammate), and... Tani. 'elim read' as in lightly tone read evil, but I don't really think this has to mean e!Tani. Could maybe decide if I knew shadow's meta better but I don't. Also elim read me in the same section, which increases this being v!Tani I think In N2 (I think), had Baker as village- not even slight village- for a reason that (imo) isn't very good :P. On further reflection I don't think e!JustBussedArcher!shadow pushes Tani as much as she did in her D2 post. In D2, mentions Sibling's play as "somewhat problematic" but never revisits it. In N2, continues to village read Baker for basically no reason. Overall Thoughts: Kas and Devo are villagers. That's that, thanks TJ is also likely village, despite abstaining/voting counter to all three elim trains thus far. I think playing the devil's advocate in the Arelon doc for the e!Aman case is a good look and a villagery move, and TJ has had good reasons for being on the trains he's been on. I historically have a hard time gut reading TJ but right now I gut read him village. Orlok is probably village as well, this is a relatively weak read, but as interesting as it would be for e!Orlok to make the argument for e!Aman "No elim would make a case against a v!Aman like that" I don't think that's what happened- It'd be extremely gutsy for e!Orlok to make the Aman case with v!Kas in their doc and the easiest and most likely explanation is that Orlok's just village. JNV's playstyle is tailored to pocket me and I just read them village every game so that's where I'm at. I feel like JNV hasn't voted as much as normal which is potentially e indicative but at this point in the game, with 3 elims in 3 Day cycles, I don't need to worry about elims in my village tier just yet :P. Definitely a revisitable read if it comes to the endgame and I'm somehow still alive, though xD Which leaves as my weaker / more undecided slots: Tani- I think Tani's likely village. I read her conversation with Illwei about her vote as not e/e and I don't see shadow pushing Tani the way she did if they're paired. Middle-level confidence, her Illwei unvote is a thing, but village for now. Bort- I also think Bort's likely village, due to doc interactions and his Illwei vote. Quickly revisitable because of his other votes though. Honestly, I have more reason to village read Bort than I have reason to village read JNV or Tani, now that I'm thinking about it. Baker- I think it's weird that shadow village read Baker so easily. I don't like how they're focused on Kas so much when in my mind Kas is just obvtown :P. Mild elim. Sibling- I also think it's weird that shadow mentioned Sibling that one time and that Sibling came to vote only when Illwei was in danger. Obviously both Baker and Sibling's shadow connections can't both be e/e, and I think Baker's is stronger, but Sibling still earns a spot in my PoE. Another point in favor of e!Baker/Sibling is kinda meta, but still valid- the elims we've had so far are Archer, Illwei, and shadow. Three active and very experienced players. The fourth member being a new player like Baker or Sibling makes sense GM-balance wise, more sense to me than TJ or Orlok. So yeah, base PoE in order is [Baker -> Sibling] with Tani, JNV, and Bort as my next options, in that order. Thoughts/Questions/Additions?

Hard to feel good about the shadow flip but hey it’s something RIP Aman, Striker, (shadow)

More than I want you or Aman to die, but not really since I do think TJ’s village. I see you moved to shadow so I’m good staying.

No lol ofc voting out an elim isn’t scummy by itself, it’s not a reason you’re suspicious it’s just not a reason you’re not either, I do think the Illwei point has merit and I would be surprised if this Aman push is pure. I’ve stated all those reasons before, they’re not out of nowhere. Also self voting is never never the answer for anything, it’s a thing that seems to be springing up more lately and is just… not helpful, if you don’t like the exe, find a different one that aligns with your wincon closer than self voting does, thank you!

Ok, look. Your argument is built on Aman/Striker being e/e. Can you look at the events of the last hour and honestly say that still makes sense? Because it really doesn’t, and I think the exe is v/v. Tying it is also a mistake, I think, but it’d at least prove it shadow, in part to make an attempt to change the exe and in part because I don’t believe the Aman train is 4 villagers. From what I understand it’s within shadow’s elim meta to vote Archer, and she tried to divert the Illwei train while technically supporting it. I agree with TJ that Kas and Orlok are likely village and read TJ as such.

Yeah I’m 100% with Striker on this one

What Striker said, essentially. I don’t think making a case against Aman should be defined that way, and I think that Archer’s reason to make the case was the same reason any elim makes a case against any villager, any time. Maybe controversial opinion, and I was skimming at this point in D1, but when I read Archer’s case my first thought was not about how bad it was, it was mild disagreeing but I didn’t actively think the case was bad. Idk, just seems weird to me to base this case off of something that would normally suggest v!Aman just because it’s Aman.

I just came off of an MR where I village read everybody, so I can sympathize with that. The circumstances are very different, though, as you point out, and I can’t really argue against the second point. You say this like I didn’t read your post or Orlok’s post (which I did) and like I’m not considering it (which I am) smh I just haven’t been in the Arelon doc and this is the first I’ve seen if this discussion. Sorry if I didn’t immediately agree xD I’m not going to stop this exe. Probably won’t help it, but I’m not going to stop it because it does make sense. Of course I don’t think Archer’s a moron, but I don’t see why that has to make Aman evil. It certainly could, but I still don’t understand why that bus would need to be necessary- at that point in the cycle, Aman was village read and Archer wasn’t a candidate, iirc. Again, not going to vote to save Aman. The case holds within itself and makes sense. I don’t really agree, but guess we’ll see. How’s TJ feel about this?

I don’t see why Aman would bus two teammates to be village read when he already was being largely village read. What’s the gain there? I think by your train of thought Striker should be the kill here, not Aman, but sure I guess :P.

I don’t believe that Devo bussed Archer. When she self pressed, it was tied between Archer and Thaid and she preferred Archer. There was an argument made that maybe Devo had a good role, but Illwei seemed to be the elim PR (and also e!Devo with a good role could still have voted Thaid?) so to me there’s no reason e!Devo kills Archer there, the credit gained wouldn’t be worth it imo if they can keep going with Archer’s thread control alive. His exe happened suddenly and wasn’t a given for D2. That plus vibes from the doc resolve to a pretty solid village read. I also don’t agree with the line of thinking that Archer and Illwei both preferred the non-Devo option- in Archer’s case Thaid had more votes so of course he preferred Thaid, and in Illwei’s case she immediately followed your vote on me with a reasonless vote on me so it was outside of preferences altogether.

Pretty much. I like Aman’s view of this being a team game, if enough people want to flip her etc but I do think Devo will flip village.

Because I believe this- :P. Didn’t unvote at the time because the other post was fresh in my mind but having sat on it for awhile it doesn’t seem like a legit slip to me.

Striker High intensity solving around here I was planning to look at D2 today and post something but yeah the thread’s pretty slow :P.

Craven woke up, surprised to find that he had fallen asleep. He was glad that he had, even if he wished he could have slept through the landing.

PSA to everyone that the cycle ends tomorrow since it seems like a lot of people think that it ends in 3.5 hours when it in fact ends in 27.5 hours

No no no how is that the underlying message that came through

Oh yeah, forgot to mention things regarding Devo- as the VC shows, Archer didn’t prefer Thaid over Devo, he preferred to self pres onto the other player with the most votes. Illwei’s vote on me was naked and came immediately after Kas’ so I don’t think it was a conscious decision on Illwei’s part to pick me over Devo, Kas just provided me as an option right when Illwei was there to take it. Therefore that whole argument is invalidated Yes I will defend Devo until she flips and possibly even afterwards thank you very much

Feel a bit better about Bort due to rereading doc interactions, but I think I still read him more negative than positive. I’d pick him out of the two for an elim. I agree with the TWTBAW read Aman assigned to Striker. Tonally different from the MR, pushed Archer extremely hard, voted Illwei late. Your Monk claim was on the list as well but that doesn’t apply anymore :P. I think that would kill two villagers though :P. What do you mean we have like 12 xD Oooooooh maybe forget everything I just said about Bort and Striker this alone flips the script

Mmm thank you for making this point, I didn’t want to be stuck to 1 elim per doc

Ooh, do try your best to complete these! Off to a great start!

Aw, I was hoping you killed Araris and someone had a roleblock to report.