spaidapig

Normally, when a spren transitions into the PR they still remain mostly in the CR. It's more like they are peaking into the PR. Even Radiant Spren are not completely in the PR, I think. Only when they are summoned as a Shardblade their full essence is manifested in the PR and they gain a Body. As spren are basically Investiture, and the fact that most physical reprenentatian of Imvestiture is Metal, their appearance is some kind of weapon, tool or something similar. What Ishar did, was pulling their Cognitive aspect into the PR. And I think, that is the problem here. When we look at the appearance of investiture in the PR it is either solid in the form of some kind of metal, liqiud in a Perpendicularity oder gaseous as Storm/Voidlight or the Mists. Solid Investiture can remain in the PR. But gaseous Investiture dissipates unless it is captured, and even then, it is mostly unstable. As the body of a spren is definitly not made of metal. And the problem is, what I believe, that their Investiture is partly used up in forming organs, etc. and the rest goes kinetic and disappears into the SR. Maybe feeding them huge amounts of Stormlight can help keeping them alive.

The direct questtion concerning Fused in Nightblood was RAFOed. But he confirmed, that the Thunderclast from [OB] is gone for good. So I'm fairly sure, that Nightblood can kill a Cognitive Shadow in a way, that it is definitely gone.

While this is totally true there is a different WoB saying, that even a non Nalthian could Return. So @NightbloodforPM's question was really good. But yes, Vasher is a native Nalthian.

I think it is really unlikely, that Vasher will do something great with his Divine Breath, at least in the First Era. That's because Brandon wants his books to be able to stand alone, they have to be understood by those, who haven't read all the cosmere. Awakening is ok, because everyone who didn't read Warbreaker understand that he does something different than Surgebinding, but it isn't essential to know, what it is exactly. BUT, using his Divine Breath for healing someone mortally wounded makes a HUGE difference. Giving up his life has to be something important, so when/if he will do, it has to be a gamechanger. And Brandon wouldn't use a foreign magic as a core fragment in his book. At least not until Mistborn Era 4.

Ryshadiums are basically horses, a non-native species to Roshar. Per WoB we got the confirmation, that they are the only species, besides humans, who have formed a spren bond, not necessarily a Nahel Bond, and are not native to Roshar. A question about them having gem hearts was RAFOed, but they are invested, to some extent.

So we know from WoB that Vasher had been to Roshar before creating Nightblood. Supposedly together with Shashara, but that question had been RAFOed. At least we know that Shardbaldes were the model for Nightblood, so Vasher was there and has maybe seen them in use, or has heared of them from stories. All, or at least some, of the Five Scholars were off world, some possibly on other planets than Roshar, because they visited places that have reached an Industrial time (So Scadrial is a possibility, or some other world we do not yet know) AND they know Silverlight, the CR city with one or more Univerities. The Scholars were supposedly some of the first cosmere scholars in general and researched a broad field regarding Investiture. Through this research they were able to decifer at least some of the machanics behind awakening an BioChromatic Breath. Meanwhile they created their system of four different types of awakened entities. I think they were so focused on their homeworld, that they didn't condider incluing other magic systems in their research. Now, Vasher has spent a significant time on Roshar, to get to know at least some part of this system. He delves deeper into the nature of spren and Investiture in general and widens his limited view. So I think, this is no continuity error, because at that moment in Warbreaker he didn't know/think/research about the true nature of spren, it is simply science. Like Zahel himself says. You have to adapt your point of view/your systems, based on the knowledge you have. And if you get to know new information, you have to change them, so they fit to your new understanding.

I feel like the symbiosis of the species of Roshar and fabrials use the same underlying magic system, the "sprenmagic". While one type relies on a natural dependence, maybe cooperation is even better, I like to call it natural sprenmagic, the other one is like a forced cooperation, almost lining in to exploitation. I understand why you are using "organic fabrials", mostly because fabrials were the fist direct spren usage we saw. But to me this sounds like cyborgs and I don't feel this is indended. Maybe someone can come up with a better term then sprenmagic? Back to the topic: I like this very much. The metal kind of aks like a replica to the key the Rhythms represent. Maybe thats why the structure of the metal cage is essential to the construction of fabrials, as well as the spren type and the gem type. The gem type, and with this the corresponding essence as well, seem to play a big part in both types of sprenmagic, which makes sense. The essences probably have their origin in some natural concept. They can't be solely asinged how someone felt or guessed they have to. 10 is an essential number to Roshar, because of this it is in Vorinism, so thinking along this line is a pretty obvious start. I believe that there must even be a third type of sprenmagic. And this must be what Soulcasters and Healingfabrials are. I think they are one step between the natural symbiosis and the forced captured spren. If someone is Connected enough to a spren they can convince them to become a fabrial, based on the free will of the spren. This could also fit to the Sibling and Urithiru. Somehow this has to be "softer" than capturing a spren in a gemstone as well as more limiting to the spren that the natural symbiosis Rosharan animals use. I'm wondering what Shallan defective Soulcaster looks like in Shadesmar.

I hate the term "organic fabrial". It just seems off to me. What they are doing in this chapter is not really a Fabrial in my understanding. It's like plowing a field with a horse or something similar. You wouldn't consider a horse a machine or something like that, which is what fabrials are essentially. They are machines that use investiture as fuel. Drumming to the beat of a rythm is no machine. You could create a machine doing the drumming and then I could call it a fabrial, but organic fabrial just doesn't sound right to me. What we see here is more like a symbiosis. The spren is attracted by something it likes. And in exchange for Stormlight it stimulates the growth in the plants. This is what we see in native rosharan species as well and you wouldn't call an animal a fabrial or machine?

I have the feeling, that if one of the plantes we know has fossils, it would be Roshar. Roshar is old as it was created by Adonalsium himself. And iirc for fossils to develop organic material needs to be sealed from oxygenic influence. What suits better to seal something off than the crem from the highstorms. Crem builds new land by covering everything underneath it. Kaladin also recognizes the hidden patterns in the fossil by making them wet, just like the stones Tien always found when they were children. Maybe they were fossils as well.

One Million, what a number. I'm relatively new to the community as I first learned about Brando less than two years ago. Since then I devoured every cosmere piece of him and I loved it. So eventually, I went to the subreddits and as things develop I find myself lurking in the Shard. Every once in a while I try yo share my point of view, especially one the mechanics of the different magic systems, they're simply awesome.

When I read this, I thought, that Veil just drinks more before she burnes the alcohol away with Stormlight. So she will get more drunk than Shallan would, because of this. Maybe Shallan gets uncomfortable earlier than Veil.

Do you think there is a parallel between Southern Scadrial tech and Farbial technology?

But if you put the repeller at the bottom of the ship, pointing upwards, then it would push the ship upwards, but the fabrial, which is attached to ship would be pushed downwards. The net force out of this would be zero. It's like you can't pull yourself out of a swamp by pulling up your own hair. this would create a perpetuum-mobile. Physically impossible. And the laws of mechanics still apply to the cosmere in general. Just like pushing and pulling in Allomancy. I like this really a lot. Reminds me of [Mistborn, Bands of Mourning] As much as I like the technology Navani and the other scholar put together, this could be the future of airships in Roshar.

He did indeed need multiple Soul Stamps. But they were all but on metalplate and that metalplate was connected, not physically but spiritually, to the Stamp that was used on him in the end. So you can combine different Stamps and stampeffects, you only need the right tools to do it.

What I think is mostly meant by this whole tech thing is. You have at least two sets of conjoined fabrials, like the archer platform in WoR. One to pull the ship into the air (vertical movement). And one to move it around (horizontal movement). The thing with conjoiners is, that if you move one (object A), the other one (object B ) moves as well, regardless of what one you move. With Aluminum they were able to block the transfer of hroizontal movement between the ship "B" and the vertical Fabrial "A". I don't want this to become to technical, but just like spanreeds do not transfer their movement in OB in the Aluminumcoated room, they just blocked a part of this movement and not all of it. Yes an Axi is an atom. Or the cosmer equivalent of it. I don't think they have the insights that we now have. But a more or less accurate system that works for their purpose

I like this That is why I said, that there must an underlying concept behind it, that manifests as internal/external in Allomancy and Fabrials, but not in Feruchemy. I'm trying to find a fitting pattern behind it. If I have a breakthrough I will share it as good as I can.

What I'm trying to keep in mind is not the actual allomantic effect of the metal, but the innate specification of it. We have the allomantic table, with internal/external, pulling/pushing and so on. And I think this can be applied to all the magic systems that interact with and use metals. Metals have innate properties all over the cosmer. The best example is Aluminum. No matter where we are in the Cosmer, Aluminum can be used to block Investiture from influencing itslef and things contained by it. On Sel for example: Aluminum cannot be soulcast. And neither can an Allomancer push or pull on it. Nalthis: The Fabrial mechanics are only another field, where these innate properties are expressed. Of course not in the exact same way as in the three Metall Art ("capital" because of their direct connection to Scadrial). But this is a theme. And will most likely be a theme in other series where metal interacts with Investiture. The other Metallic Art can all be fit into the theme of the internal/external classification of the used metal. It is simply expressed in a different way each time. We have the Mental, Physical, Temporal and Enhancement classification of allomantic metal. But in Hemalurgy and Feruchemy this fits as well. On the Feruchemical table they are callled differently, because the classification is an in world document which can be flawed or incomplete. I'm fairly sure that is a higher concept behind each of the metals, and the groupings are spanning the several systems.

Through the addition of pewter wires the flamesprens produces heat by consuming Stormlight. Without it, it would propably do nothing I suppose. Maybe it produces some warmth that will not be enough for heating a room or so. Pewter makes the spren express its attribut violently. The attribut of a flame/flamespren is heat, so that's what it will produce with pewter.

That's what I suppose. With zinc and brass you can regulate the emitted heat. Without them, it's just a standard level of heat, which may depend on the size of the gem I think.

Jup I know about them. Just didn't want to put them into the Mistborn forum [Stormlight/Rythm of War]

It probably has some cosmere-lorewise reasoning behind it.

Ah perfect. Thank you. This was the scene I was looking for. So the classification comes from a meta level and not an actual effect on the allomancer.

So tin is the physical internal pulling metal. Does someone know where it was described how the "pulling" effect was justified? So like, what is pulled and pushed by the internal physical metal. The rest is pretty obvious, but these two are still confusing from time to time. I couldn't find anything but I'm sure I read about it somewhere.

I would call it a metallic art. But not one of the Metallic Arts. This is my theory as well. In allomancy the allomancer works as the mind, who gives the, I like to call it flavored, Investiture its final shape and directing. In Fabrials this place is filled by the Gem and the captured Spren.

I'm not sure, that this is what navani meant by changing polarity. What sparks to my mind when I hear of polarity is magnets and electrostatic. We have seen fabrials that act kind of magnetic. Conjoiners and Reverser follow a pattern of attracted and repulsed movement. Thats why I think that Iron and Steel will be used in these kind of fabrials. Another thing that is externally attracted could be water. Attractor fabrial will probably work with Iron as well. I'm not denying that they could be used as a switch for other fabrials as well, but we should keep in mind, that they should have some external effect. I wouldn't call it a Metallic Art. Simply because the Metallic Arts are related to Ruin and Preservation and I consider them a closed package. For Fabrialtech you need so much more than just the metals. This simply doesnt fit like the others.