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I would think that it would only be, like, the nobility of the country that does this, they see filling out forms as a sign of civilization so they do it; but if you were to go down the chain to the lower class (who would make up the majority of the population) and the people administering them, you'd find a lot less paper. Also, the Azish bureaucracy seems a lot more efficient, so they probably end up collecting more in taxes, which would allow them to support that bureaucracy. I don't know that this is enough, because paper was expensive at this time.

Ruin's like the person who eats the pizza (clever comparison between entropy and eating a pizza)

It makes sense that mortals who gain hold of a shard only have their mental capacity expanded and not made infinite, since not only are they still just a "vessel", they also only hold a fraction of Adonalsium's power. Also: Odium is like a pepper-so hot it burns your tongue. Honor is like cheese, it's the opposite of spicy and it binds the pizza together.

I forgot about the insanity, that's a good point. Though considering that there are enough fused that they can be used as a sort of special ops force, I think that most of them are going to be used in the fighting. With Odium giving general battle plans and the fused still sane acting as a war council to carry them out and adding parts to make them more effective.

They don't seem too outclassed, the outside of Alethkar, the Parashendi don't seem to have much of a will to fight (the former Azir Parshmen even lodged a formal complaint), and most of the Parashendi still need to trained, and are also majorly outnumbered by Humans. So the Humans have the better-equipped, butter trained and larger army, though the Parashendi have better commanders (the Fuzed), and more experience with surgebinding, as well as they are better prepared. So it seems pretty even.

yeah but that's not like the printing press, which is mass-communication

I think one of Brandon's strengths has been to take a world/magic system, and extrapolating "what would happen in a world like this?", so I want to see where he takes magitec, and I think he's also going out to relatively uncharted territory here, seeing how a world progresses over time while shaped by a hard magic system.

Threnody: We aren't sure about the economy threnody currently, besides that the people are divided into 2 groups: homesteaders and the people living in the forts (farmers and the people who live in cities). The people seem to be doing rather well for themselves, and despite a note on the Threnody system mentioning that some basic goods are not as abundant as they should, these people seem to live lives rather similar to that of people in colonial America (I think that's part of the inspiration with the homesteaders, since in most other places people congregated into small farming villages), and extrapolating that it is possible to say that these people (once settled) will be on average richer, more literate etc. than their Mainland ancestors. Things like this (a decently educated and highly mobile middle/lower class) help improve technological advancement tremendously, and on top of that, the Threnodies have multiple common enemies to rally behind and maintain unity and give a stressor to increase technological advancement as well (the Shades and the Evil). First of the Sun: AU pages 495, 496 and 506 respectively (paperback version, if that makes a difference). From the story Sixth of the Dusk it is shown that the people of First of the sun have steam power and ironclads, showing they have an industrial revolution themselves. They also have trading companies, ones that are rich enough to build these ironclads, signifying that they have a strong, industrial economy. The fact that "ordinary people" are now richer indicates the creation and of a middle class, putting First of the Sun in the later stages of an industrial revolution. Though it should be noted that events in the story take place a while after the front half of the SA and W&W. Nalthis: Breaths also don't take any man-hours (the best way of measuring the relative worth of something, or the efficiency at which it is made) to make, they do, however, act as an easy way of redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor. Yes, this does mean that the upper class won't accumulate as much capital. However, as we will see on Scadrial, that is absolutely great for an economy, since the lower classes will buy proportionally more than the rich, and will invest it into industries that are better for the economy. Richer lower classes also lead to more technological advancements. Though most of the trade (through Hallandren at least) is owned by the priests. However, trade is still limited (considering that Idris is still poor even though they have a monopoly on passes that many in Hallandren were willing to fight a war over). So the economy of Nalthis is probably still pre-classical. Sel: This seems like a good summary of Arelon besides that once Elantris' position stabilizes, they will begin to stagnate scientifically. Also, Teod would follow a similar pattern to Arelon because of how intertwined their governments are after Raoden. However they are much more mercantile than the Arelon, so (combined with the labor shortage they have because of their small population) they may begin to industrialize sometime (though the chances are really small since they have a long way to go). The Fjordell have an extremely powerful and zealous theocracy, imagine Europe lead directly by the pope. This would completely stifle technological/scientific advancement as religious institutions are rarely accepting of new ideas or ways of thought (which isn't helped by the fact that the system that its church promotes is based off of feudalism). The Rose Empire seems to be inspired heavily by pre-industrial China, with a large bureaucracy (instead an aristocracy) and strong regulations & law code. However, regulations like the ones in pre-industial China did not stifle technological advancement in China. China suffered from the lack of any external pressures/rivals (which is something that the Rose Empire seems to also have), though China did still have numerous technological and scientific advancements, from the printing press to gunpowder, to watertight hulls and the compass, China has had it's fair share of science, so I would put it as the most likely to have an industrial revolution. Scadrial: The Elendel basin is the only industrialized society we've seen in depth so far in the Cosmere. It has basically hit an extended gilded age with 20th century technology. So of course it makes sense that underground groups try and overthrow the corrupt and ineffective government. While this wasn't so bad as the gilded age in our timeline (the noble houses don't form monopolies over entire industries), they still have a stranglehold on the economy of the Elendel Basin. They will probably reform into a more sustainable 20th century economy because of how Brandon is taking the series though, so in the future the Elendel Basin will be an economic powerhouse, and probably become very similar to 60s America. I don't know much about the Southerners, but they don't seem to be as industrially advanced as the Elendel are, though they have the medallions and other magitec marvels so they will advance at a similar pace to those in the Elendel Basin Roshar: Shinover is extremely isolationist, so they probably will stick with their relatively equitable and prosperous economy, which while it has stagnated, doesn't seem to have any problems. I really should have caught this during my readthrough. This puts Roshar at around 17th-18th century industrially, since manufactories were the beginning of the industrial revolution. Vorinism (the most influential religion on Roshar) is also completely subjugated to the whims of the aristocracy, to the point that they are technically owned by the nobles. Along with this, there is a renaissance of magitec as Dawnchant is translated and old fabrials are re-discovered; and there is a war that will unite the world and includes an arms race. If Roshar survives the Desolation, then they will be in a perfect position to industrialize and strengthen their economy. Azir is Comically overregulated, with laws and civil service exams that are so long and detailed that their only purpose is comic relief. But at the end of the day, only one place has to industrialize to completely remake the world order. yeah we don't know much about the Iri.

So I was thinking about Harmony and the relationship between shards, and I thought about how other shards would create other combinations of powers and personalities. So I want to ask everyone what combinations of shards they want to see (not because it might happen, but because the outcome would be cool). I feel like a combination of Odium and Ruin would make like a being that wants to destroy everything only because it exists. It would be called like annihilation or obliteration.

your probably right, I've never been to creative so there probably is some way to create machines

So Kaladin is: Resourceful (Bridge 4) Quick-witted (verbal sparring with Shallan) A quick learner (he picks up medicine, soldiering, and just about anything he does rather quickly and with ease) good of applying what he knows (Once again Bridge 4) and has a near-perfect memory (remember those times when he unconsciously thinks of a disease and everything about it). Did I miss anything?

Maybe your right. I don't see how fabrials could be used to manufacture items (such as clothing, or furniture etc.) which is why I don't think that fabrials could completely replace an industrial revolution. Though if what your saying is true, and fabrials can grow enough food for the entire populace of Roshar, then we may not need technology to produce those items anyways (magical or otherwise), as being able to move 90% of the population to something other than food production could create the economic revolution that would be required. Though I guess we just have to see what fabrials can or can't do in the future.

wait where do we see Kelsier? And would being (and then giving up) being a vessel make Kelsier a Physical being rather than a cognitive shadow?

Your right in that they are progressing technologically at a staggering rate. However, this is not like the Industrial revolution in our world, which increased the earth's production capabilities with factories and machinery, that is what allowed us to develop economically to the point we are at today; and without that industrial and communications infustructure/technology, most people will be too poor to take an interest in the cognitive realm on Roshar. So, assuming that the oathgates are rebuilt and maintained, that the desolation doesn't set the people back to the stone age, the only people who have the economic base to take an interest in the cognitive realm are the upper class (nobles and successful merchants). I don't think that such a small portion of the population is what OP means by this. Or maybe I'm wrong and in coming books fabrials will take the place of machinery and allow Rosharans to enjoy the same economic prosperity that happened to us on Earth. Rhythms of War is supposed to involve a technological arms race and as was pointed out before:

My Uncle is the "cool uncle" type, like whenever my family goes over to his house he always has a new board game (or two) to show us. So he knows I like to read, and he's a bit of a reader himself. So he recommended Brandon Sanderson's works (starting with Mistborn - which I did read first), and in his initial sales pitch he mentioned that all of the books are interconnected/ in the same universe - and also that there is a character that goes around and appears in all of these books. So that's how I found out about the Cosmere.

That makes a lot more sense now. However, without the industrial revolution, things like global trade and the improved labor conditions that came post-industrial revolution is what's required to make mass awareness and mass access to the cognitive realm possible. So, while I may not have given Roshar credit for its scientific advancements, without focus on machinery (or some other way of improving industrial and agricultural efficiency), these achievements are not necessarily relevant. That is what oathgates are. I was thinking of a sort of a individual person fabrial that allowed you to jump between dimensions, though that now seems like a jump from a train to a car, and the train (the oathgate) is much more likely to be produced before it's economically feasible for these "cars".

I think he meant, like, building new oathgates If Surgebinders can create mini-perpendicularities, doesn't that mean that certain fabrials can be made to simulate that? I honestly thought that their technology was closer to that of pre-exploration age Europe (like 14th or 15th centuries). They don't seem to be industrializing any time soon, though they do have a concept of science and are at the beginning of a scientific revolution.Though along with that their society and culture seems to be closer to the renaissance. Also, there is First of the Sun, which is shown to be industrializing rapidly, though it is supposedly set farther in the future so they most likely won't be the first. Does first of the Sun even have a perpendicularity?

I would think that the shards having domain over their elements (like all entropy being an embodiment of Ruin, or all oaths being an embodiment of Honor) would be similar to, say, the Greek Gods. Take Poseidon for example, while his domain is the ocean, he cannot simply sense everything in the ocean, it just happens to be his domain. Most of what happens in the ocean happens without Poseidon's conscious interference. He reserves the power to do so, but at the end of the day, he is just the powerful deity who resides over the ocean, ruling much like a King would. Thinking about it, the shattering of Adonalsiuim sounds remarkably similar to the Greek gods divvying up Cronos's powers; smaller powers kill the physical carrier of a god's powers and divide up the resulting powers arbitrarily.

Crackpot Theory time: That the God Beyond is the "Dark One" from the Wheel of Time, and Yolen is earth in like the 5th age or something. How would this work? 1. It would give Adonalsium some context, being the creator of the Pattern (or what I'm just going to say is the Cosmere for theory's sake). And his shattering would be remarkably similar to the Dark One destroying the pattern. 2. The Dark One was remarked to be outside the Pattern, like the God Beyond would be outside of the Cosmere 3. This scenario would leave the Dark one without a complete victory, unless he was lying to Rand when he shows him his perfect world (however he may as well have just been using the vision to manipulate Rand, or maybe to appeal to Lews Therin, who has been remarked to be different to Rand, and the Dark one had no further motive than to break the Pattern. Though I'm just going to assume the Dark One broke the Pattern but was stopped there since it allows for more storytelling and a sort of "final battle" for the Cosmere.) Now... Time to get even more crackpot: 4. Hoid is the failed hero. He was the Chosen one, that age's iteration of the "Dragon" or "Dragon Reborn". Since the Pattern is broken, but the final battle didn't technically end, it makes sense for the Hero to continue living until the battle is over. 5. The final battle will be the Everyone vs. The Dark one, and will end with the Dark One back in imprisonment and someone (I hope Hoid) becoming the Creator all over again and restarting the Pattern I know this isn't likely at all and it probably won't happen. But you gotta admit, this would be really cool.

I would assume that "Purity's Eye" would have some religious significance (or at least did so before people fled to hell's forest) though that raises greater questions into Threnodite theology

I'd ask: Since space (between planets) in the cognitive realm is based on peoples perception of space, would that mean as the peoples started to realize just how much empty space there is around their specific planets in the physical realm, would that also make the distance between planets farther in the cognitive realm as well since their perception of that space would change? Because (if true) this would leave planets whose peoples understand the scope of astronomy unable to travel through the cognitive realm to other planets Edit: Wait I just realized that this is supposed to be just about Roshar (I guess it still applies though)

Spoilers for Wheel of Time:

I always assumed they were using their power to harm each other, though that doesn't make sense since their near-equal powers should repel each other and prevent harm from coming to their vessels, right? Though I feel like this also raises the question of what is combat between shards like, since Odium has killed and splintered multiple other Shards, without being hurt or splintered himself.

First of all, I assume when we say "voidbringers" we mean the singers and not humans? Second, since voidbringers can change which surge they can use by changing their form and going out into an everstorm (They can do that, right?) I'd probably choose voidbringer, since the added adaptability would be nice.

Passion is defined as "strong and barely controllable emotion" it would make sense that shard holders would see themselves as being extremely passionate, since the 16 facets of Adonalsium personality that the shards seem to have been divided by (and named after) seem to overtake their holder's own personality and replace it with it's own single idea. With someone as arrogant as Rayse, they may see this change as themselves becoming the embodiment of all passion. So in a way wouldn't all of the shardbearers (is that the right term?) be on that path towards being "all passion" of whatever facet they so happened to get, and none of what they were before? Or I've gotten something wrong and everything I said is incomprehensible