DiePie

I seem to recall First of the Sun having the most exquisite arrangement of Jungle-islands (where a lot of spices have historically been grown on earth), and the trade company that was setting up on Patji couldn't have afforded an ironclad purely off the Aviar trade. Also Nalthis probably has something good because of Endowment and her perpendicularity

The longer you spend on 'danger zones' (such as threnody or Patji) the more SURVIVAL™ points you earn, and the farther you can progress through the Kelsier Bond

damnation, I guess my theory is switched to Odium's investiture in the Fused rather than Odium itself. Though the other thing I somehow completely forgot to mention (and is half the reason I posted this), is that when 9 of the heralds stopped honoring the Oathpact, it would make sense that the required cognitive power would suck in some of Tarnavast's mind to fill the empty space (since his investiture in the pact would create a connection to him), and this could reason that he started to go insane (sort of like Leras).

<Mistborn Spoilers> This (trapping a shard for a period of time) however, isn't a unique occurrence in the Cosmere. Honor used the Oathpact to limit Odium's influence on Roshar. What I'm proposing is that what Tarnavast did to Rayse is the same thing that Leras did to Ati, using cognitive force concentrated in a physical form to hold the power of a shard, however instead of using his own cognitive aspect, he used 10 Heralds instead. Every 1024 years the well of ascension would fill with investiture, what I'm saying is the sort of outlet to Ati's power, stopping the whole system from breaking by using the excess. Tarnavast however, didn't create such a system, and instead used humans (shored up with a little of his own power) to prevent Rayse from escaping his prison. Since humans work different to Shards however, the Heralds had to physically be at the site of the prison, and so could be broken by Odium (creating the Desolations).

grief builds character!

you are most likely right, I would however like to keep the option on the table The ease at which Odium extrapolates is outstanding, even if he is a god. I would say that the fact he sees everything so easily shows that the diagram, as well as its interpretation were created using the same source. And there are some other things in their conversation that seem sort of weird. For the first quote, if Odium was just interpreting the diagram, there wouldn't be a 'blind spot' in the interpretation. So Odium was most likely using Fortune to interpret them. (though this isn't exactly relevant) However, there is, a very small chance that Taravangrian could know how his conversation with Odium would go. There just isn't enough known about "the enemy" to tell what his reactions would be, or what he would do or how people could react to him... unless he had fortune. Though I guess that wouldn't be possible without Cultivations express intention, so... Mr. T would probably have to be a plant for this to be true. I believe he created an entire language to clearly explain his thoughts, one that was translated, and I also believe he had created a number of keys or codes or ciphers to accomplish the same goal. Also, what is the point of creating directions, if not for people to follow them? (and for that they need to be able to understand them) One way or another, Taravangrian's scholars translated most of the Diagram to be understandable, and Odium easy figured out what it meant using Fortune. It seems like a stretch that Cultivation thought that she could keep the Diagram out of Odium's hands, especially since the Diagram itself predicts that.

While we don't know specifically that Mr. T wasn't using fortune... he most likely wasn't and was just extrapolating upon his current knowledge. Odium could see far more than Mr. T, but since we don't know the limits of the spiritual realm (and by extension, fortune), Mr. T could have seen things that Odium didn't, perhaps large-scale patterns in the peoples of Roshar, things that wouldn't appear in the spiritual realm but would be obvious to someone closely observing the Physical. It would make sense that Renairin would be a blind spot, look at what 2 Atium burners experience yeah that's one of the things I was thinking when I proposed this, for all we know it was cultivation's idea for Taravangrian to create false diagram, and she's been manipulating him to have these ideas. The ideas aren't mutually by any means

quote from the coppermind: first and foremost it would be pretty easy to make it weightless (just adding 2 opposing lashes), but that won't be needed. second, the entire fortification (which isn't just a wall or a platform, most likely a combination of both so people can stand on it) would be falling for a few seconds to accelerate it in its entire length. This isn't something pulling from the middle, the force is coming from the entire length of the fort. We would use abrasion to make the bottom of the fort completely slick, no friction whatsoever. So once the fort is up to speed, extra weight won't slow it down since it will have no friction to the ground. So that means that extra people on one side or another will only matter during accelerations, when they are not falling forward. It would be so easy to use basic lashings to rotate it back, so long as its not spinning like 45 degrees in either direction, which, again, won't happen because as you pointed out, the fort is so much more massive than the people on top of it, so they proportionally weigh almost nothing compared to the structure (which is the thing accelerating here, since gravitation accelerates entire bodies evenly)

My idea was that the Diagram 2.0 would come and the Diagram (the organization) would quickly change plans and begin something that Odium wouldn't expect, and it would be executed before Odium would be made aware, Odium only knew about the Diagram's (the organization) plans was because he was able to secure a copy, which in and of itself most likely took time, the Diagram (the organization) had been operating for years before the events of SA, and Odium only confronts Taravangrian in the end of Oathbringer, revealing that he probably didn't know about the deal (the one where Taravangrian would become king of the world to trick Odium) until then, and thus had only just secured the Diagram. What I'm trying to say is that this all hinges on a quick change in the Diagram's (the organization) actions throughout Roshar to tip the tide of the war before Odium knew what was happening, or before he could react accordingly. Also, quick note: if the Diagram lists a possible contingency for if Odium discovers it, then won't Odium know the contingency? If Odium discovers the Diagram then anything it contains is compromised and thus can be countered by Odium.

The Idea is that we're always on the ground, but using Abrasion to slide while periodic lashings pull us along. So long as the lashing doesn't affect the people on the 'mobile fortification', they will have enough weight to push it into the ground

Yeah I thought that was more of a stretch

perhaps, it would be cool if it worked but I personally don't think that it really fits as well as the story we've been told by Jezrien in the Prelude to WoK, I guess we just gotta read and find out...

So, the diagram is a work of beauty, it's so complicated that it took a literal god to understand most of it, and what little was understood by Taravangrian and The Diagram (the organization) was basically prophetic. However, there has always been a flaw to me, when Taravangrian meets with Odium, Odium has a copy... How surprising considering The Diagram (the organization) was made of thousands of members, and quite a few that had access to the Diagram in its entirety. So it seems weird to me that Taravangrian (on the day that he was intelligent enough to impress a god), wouldn't have figured out that Odium would eventual find himself a copy... Or perhaps he did. I'm proposing that Taravangrian created the diagram not to succeed in saving humanity, but to set up the world for the Diagram 2.0. When Taravangrian created the Diagram, he did so vouching on the Idea that he will be granted a similar intelligence later. He used the Diagram to create a world perfect for his second faze to begin, everything from the predictions that were wrong to Odium figuring out his plan were all part of the plan from the start, however he could not write all this down, since then Odium would know. Another note: Taravangrian's deal with Odium seems stupid, first of all, Odium seems to have no reason to exterminate the humans, just the spren (the remaining remnants of honor), and second is that Odium would easily see through that plan, he makes it seem obvious, and he probably would have seen what Taravangrian was doing even if he didn't have a copy of The Diagram himself. TLDR: The Diagram was a farce set up by Taravangrian to properly prepare the world for his real plan to save humanity

I feel like Taln would be more bitter if he was killed by another Herald than we see him in (Oathbringer I think?) It's also mentioned in the prelude of WoK that Taln died sacrificing himself defending the pass, and the other heralds took the opportunity to let him go back to Braize alone

Right but what happens when a small group of people push it back the other way? That's why I wanted to use Lashings to move it around, it would be a lot harder to push around a Chull shell with a full lashing than one that just has a few people inside pushing it. And since we're not worried about weight with this, we could soulcast something the size of a room, make it abrasive and basically have a moving HQ so long as there is someone to manage the basic lashings.

I believed its mentioned in the prologue of WoK that the Alethi didn't like that the Parashendi brought drums since for whatever reason they didn't like them (though like all good Alethi) didn't care nearly as much after a stiff drink or 2

Which sounds to me a lot like the standard tactics employed during the thirty years war of tightly packed pike men(staying in formation is not really that effective with other types of melee weaponry). Kaladin also makes a comment about how the most important part of being a solder is learning how to march correctly in sync with your fellows. yeah I completely forgot about that... I would have thought the idea that the Kholin family won because of new battlefield tactics would have stuck in my head better. I think I've heard jokes about how most of the life of a soldier is spent not fighting, so I feel like this is a reference to that. However, it also seems to attest to Alethi discipline, which makes sense considering how much fighting they've been doing. after a few thousand years of increasingly competitive warfare... I'm sure darkeyed infantry are like 1st or 2nd Nahn or something. food may not be as important, but destroying soulcasters or gemstones would be effectively cutting off their supply lines, since they would not be able to make food (and army's need a lot of food) I like where this is going but it needs refinement. This type of tank could be pushed over or slid down an incline by a lone individual using mussel power. I was thinking to either make the "tank" weightless (or have like a 3/4 lashing and use abrasion to keep it sliding so it can't be pushed around by a projectile or something) and have people push it around, or just use abrasion and then move it around with lashings

Massed pike men can repulse basically any melee attack provided that they are trained and in formation. The only thing they really can't stand up against is gunfire or artillery. They do however work well against massed infantry as you can keep your opponents at a distance while inflicting damage. That's why Pike formations were developed on earth, Knights dominated medieval warfare, but conscripted peasants were needed to keep them from being overwhelmed (very similar to shardplate/blades, Dalinar notes that a shardbearer would eventually be overwhelmed without infantry support). However, these armies were barely better than mobs (since they basically were) because they were poorly trained and poorly armed. Eventually with improved technology (such as pikes and muskets) improved tactics (such as the pike square), and actual training, organized infantry blocks were able to halt a Calvary charge. While the Alethi (probably the most advanced martially of all the countries on Roshar) have individual military training, their tactics aren't nearly as advanced as renaissance Europe (along with their technology, but you probably have figured that out easily enough) and they do not use pikes in open combat (they were used during the siege of Kholinar, but the spears Kaladin uses are much shorter)… The Alethi don't have much formation besides putting men in 2 lines and having them charge into heavy arrowfire, Kaladin's squad was practically immortal because all 30 of them (I checked) could stay together in a fight and hold a formation while the surrounding area devolved into chaos. While the armies of the Oathpact are probably better organized, they still don't know those sorts of tactics. From what we've seen, battles on the shattered plains (or during Dalinar's flashbacks of the wars fought to unite Alethkar) exhibit shardbearers with Infantry support either as Dalinar uses them (as shock troops to soften up enemy lines and give his troops time to secure footholds on the Plateaus) or as Sadeas uses them (as reserves to shore up faltering areas in his lines) reading through this thread I assumed it's because it would take too long to accelerate to that point... While after 10 seconds it would reach that speed, bullets start out going that fast, hitting almost instantly, so in that time an enemy could avoid the bullet, also the lack of precision (but you found a way around that with Gatling guns)… But I think that larger projectiles that are harder to avoid (for example, things launched from trebuchets or catapults, or a spiked log, or a string that could fit though any gap (even the ones in between your cells or cell walls) stretching the entire width of the battlefield. But I was thinking that you could make a basic version tank with the surges... Using Abrasion you could remove the need for wheels by making it able to slide, or you could use a basic lashing to make it weightless (or weigh significantly less). then you could have people inside pushing it around, firing Arrows, or other Abrasive projectiles. Division could be used to set opposing armies' clothing alight, or to make arrows catch fire while soaring towards your enemies to make any hit a guaranteed kill (remember that Roshar has significantly higher oxygen content than Earth, so things (like people or their clothing) will burn much easier). Division/Transformation/Cohesion could be used to make defensive fortifications (such as trenches or a bulwark), or could be used to destroy the ground underneath your opponents. Cohesion/Tension could be used to destroy or damage unrepairably an opponent's weapons or armor (imagine a surgebinder with cohesion or tension going into the enemy camp before a battle and turning all of their weapons into vague blobs of material)

yeah I noticed that... Well I guess we got to read and find out if you can create an anti-investiture set of armor and weapons using duralumin

Three loaded revolvers That lazy rascal (Wayne) Those lost revolutionaries (the set: sort of metaphorical since (as the corrupted Kandra reveals to us in the epilogue of The Bands of Mourning) whatever power that controls the set is trying to exterminate all of Scadrial)

Since duralumin is an aluminum alloy (aluminum and copper), would it carry over aluminum's effects on investiture or would they change like they do in alomancy? Because Duralumin is as strong/stronger than steel, and if it has anti-investiture properties, it would be the perfect metal for weapons and armor made to fight against shardblades, since they would not be able to use their invested effects on anything made out of it

I would assume that since the investiture would have an intent (to 'heal' Nightblood), it would have a different affect. Also, if a Divine Breath is worth 2,000 normal breaths (or its equivalent in investiture), that would be double the amount of investiture that was used to create Nightblood, and I would think it would be harder to create a sentient being than to change it.

I would think that since the programing would determine its function, different programs would result in their cognitive aspects different "personalities". So long as a soulcaster understood the program and not the computer then they could theoretically convince it to be soulcasted. For example: a computer used to run, say, architectural models would need to be convinced differently than a gaming computer.

I was thinking that the point would be to occupy the planet, not to destroy it... Otherwise it would be too easy to just create a nuclear winter and call it a day I was assuming a certain amount were ported over for attack. Guess gotta wait for DiePie to ring in. I originally didn't think too much about that, though I would say, assume that there is a Portal that was opened by choice to any of these worlds, in this case Roshar. The Portal wouldn't be able to move at will, but the Terrans would be able to create a well-fortified breachhead if they need to for any reason, like either in an Isolated location or since we're talking about a modern Terran force, Blitzkrieg tactics to quickly occupy an area large enough to support supply lines, troop movements, etc. The scenario I imagined would probably give them enough time to set up calibrated ICBMs before their opponents would stop them. But like I said, I imagined the goal would be an occupation, not turning Roshar into Ashyn II.

? I would think that a bullet to the head would kill them as fast as it would a normal person, as while they have healing though that isn't going to help them when a bullet to the brain would kill them instantly, so before they could heal. Besides for that, they can still be killed by completely destroying it, so Nuking Elantris (We have Nukes that can completely destroy everything in a 5 Km radius) would probably kill everyone inside it, including all of the Elantrians. Or using a nice bit of Napalm to completely incinerate any Elentrian. The trick would probably only be used a few times but it would be enough (especially if used on high concentrations of Elantrians) to significantly weaken them. Lets say that your average Fullborn can Kill 500,000 people in a day, times 3 Fullborns and that is 1.5 million. First of all, killing over 500,000 people will so stuff to people (I don't care that "they've seen some serious messed up stuff", killing millions while watching yourself do it will affect a person no matter what they've seen). I would think that this is a good estimate since most modern soldiers carry primarily blunt objects (guns, canteens, maybe an extra cartridge of ammo) (or sheathed pocketknives), so a steelpush wouldn't really kill as effectively as it would during the previous era of Mistborn. Also, most modern soldiers wear bulletproof armor, so coins (or any small steelpushed item) aren't going to be as effective and no pushing on armor to knock people over. Anyways I'm getting off track here. So 1.5 million people per day, out of 7.8 billion people on earth, I am going to say that 1/10 can fight in a war, so 780 million. That's enough people to throw into our little meat grinder called Scadrial for 520 days at our current casualty rate (So, is killing 160 million people not going to have an effect on someone psychological?) So we're fighting a protracted war here. A steelbubble wouldn't work against Aluminum bullets, so say we've got a few tons of bombs being dropped on them (remember that we would have near-complete air superiority since Scadrians don't yet know the secret to heavier than air flight), and aluminum machineguns trained on them at all times, and there are going to be hits a few times an hour-at least, so expect these fullburns to be burning Gold near constantly, and they don't seem to have a large supply on Scadrial. Let's say that each are burning 100 grams (I'm using 1 bead as a gram, and it makes sense that each of the Fullborn are burning lots of gold because they are in near-constant combat) so that's over 156 kg. by the end of the 520 days, and Gold is a rare commodity (in the Elendel basin at least, and since all 3 of our Fullborn are from there I'm assuming that's where most of the fighting will be there), so it seems safe to say that they will run out of gold to burn, at which point they die. Of course this ignores the required burning of Electrum and the adverse side effects of becoming a savant in many of these metals.