NameIess

Hoid barely had time to laugh in triumph before being eaten himself.

After using lightweaving to convince Kelsier to run into a brick wall, of course.

I wouldn't say that Jasnah was justified in doing what she did simply because she followed her own code. Using that logic, very few people would ever be unjustified in doing anything, no matter how horrific.

*Insert highly controversial and offensive political statement* WTWTTSW you're under attack by a pillow monster?

If you look at the footnote, it clarifies that hoid uses something similar to the underlying mechanics of feruchemy, and has a link to this WoB;

What's Itreyan? 1211

Who was running slightly faster than Kelsier as they fled from the horde of breadmounks.

Despite this, Breadmunks considered eating them to be the greatest of crimes, punishable by immediate death.

Have you finished Wax and Wayne?

(It was the name for the combined forces of breadmunks and breadmonks.)

gaped in horror as Kelsier and the massive horde of breadmounks swarmed over the wall.

screamed at the top of his lungs while running from the horde of breadmounks. He ran desperately towards the wall of Ghanderflaffle city, barely a few steps ahead of the horde. He squinted up at a figure standing on top of the wall. "Who's that?"

Sorry. I read it as you saying "its only ambiguous in your opinion" and was clarifying that while I believe it to be ambiguous (or subjective) I meant that to mean that different people could have valid but opposite opinions on Jasnah's morality. my personal opinion is that she was wrong to kill them.

I should have said this earlier, but I do not agree that killing should always be the last option. I think that the best option should always be the first option. If killing the men is what is required to keep the city safe, then that is the option that should be chosen. The benefactor would want to present the bodies as proof of the action taken to correct the problem. Thieves are replaceable, the political approval of Alethkar is not. Furthermore, We don't even know that the benefactor was behind the thieves in the beginning. In fact, the implication was that the thieves were bribing the watch. With the thieves dead, there would be no one bribing the guards. It is not like the guards were hiring thieves for their own profit. If Shallan stealing the soulcaster from Jasnah would have resulted in either war or Shallan and her brothers being turned over to Alethkar by the Vedens, a much more powerful and antagonistic country than Karbranth, hiding attempted murderers or murderers from the Alethi would not be considered for a second by any sane Karbranthian noble. No chance of angering the Alethi would have been worth it. The standard of self defense probably doesn't exist on Roshar either. Jasnah admitted that she had no legal authority to kill those men, so she simply relied on her political power to override the law Hence why I said it was ambiguous. I can see other people with slightly different values or thought processes than me coming to very different conclusions about the morality of Jasnah killing the men. Agreed. Jasnah basically has political immunity without officially having political immunity. Whether it is moral to use that political immunity is another question. Under American law, she would be guilty of murder. Yes. It should not have been her. Their guilt should have been determined by someone who has legal authority in Karbranth. What Jasnah did undermined the authority of the legal authorities in Karbranth. There is a reason we have the law, and if you can work inside of it to accomplish the optimal outcome, then you should. No, she would not. It is the responsibility of Taravangian and the Karbranthian government to do so, not Jasnah. She would almost certainly feel that she had an ethical obligation to do so, considering she did it even knowing that she could have them killed easily, but I do not believe that it is her responsibility. The thing is, other options would have had a better result. If she had captured the robbers, she could have complained to the guard that they were not doing their job. Also, the captured robber might have confessed that they bribed the guards before being executed. Both of these could have resulted in the corruption of the guards being dealt with, preventing further thieves from being able to do the same thing, treating the sickness instead of the symptoms.

ate some instant noodles while sitting on top of the Ghanderflaffle wall. He glanced out towards the open plains outside the city. "What's that sound?"

Yeah, but no sane noble would ever give the Alethi any reason to be angry with them. Thereby, they would immediately find and kill the men responsible. Whoever the benefactor is, they would remove any protection they had given the men. They might not stop their activities for good, but Jasnah killing the men will not do so either. You are correct. I didn't check the book before making my earlier post. The first man was self-defense. The subsequent three would be considered murder. Thereby, Jasnah should have captured them, or even simply mentioned that they had assaulted her, which would have resulted in the death of all three remaining convicts. Thereby, Jasnah was wrong (legally for certain, morally more ambiguously, but in my opinion she was wrong) to kill all the men except the first. Whether those men deserved death is not relevant to the legality of the scene, as Jasnah could no longer reasonably assume that they were attempting to kill her, and had no legal authority to judge those men guilty, and certainly not the authority to carry out their punishment. Morally, I would argue that she could have captured them, which would have the same result as killing them, with the exception that their guilt could have been concretely determined.

But the breadmuonk army continued onwards undeterred.

It doesn't matter who the benefactor is. No sane Karbranthian noble would take a grudge against Taravangian so far as to risk the displeasure of Alethkar. Even Sadeas at his most antagonistic would agree that those who tried to kill the princess of Alethkar should be executed, even if he had hired them to attempt it. Jasnah's political power is great enough that threatening her life is a death sentence. Legally, Jasnah was 100% in the right to kill those men. point 3 is where I disagree. Those men were dead the moment they tried to kill Jasnah. The robbers had not killed or even threatened anyone high ranking. The moment they threatened Jasnah, that changed. Their importance went from "Yeah, just some common robbers and murderers, they only kill darkeyes. Let's bribe the guard so that they don't get caught. That'll make Taravangian look bad and remind him of our power" to "STORMFATHER! THOSE IDIOTS TRIED TO KILL A MEMBER OF THE MOST POWERFUL FAMILY ON ROSHAR. IF WE DON'T KILL THEM ASAP, THEY WILL TAKE OFFENSE AND DEMAND REIMBURSEMENT AT BEST, DECLARE WAR AND KILL US ALL AT WORST" Those men would've been killed within days, even if Jasnah had not captured them. Therefore, no one else would die, and the men would be tried and executed. Another factor to consider is that those men might not have been guilty. Do we know beyond all reasonable doubt that they were going to kill Shallan and Jasnah? (Note that I am not trying to say that Jasnah was wrong to kill those men when she did it. She definitely had reason to believe that they were going to use deadly force on her, and was thus justified in using deadly force on them in return) For all we know, those men were simply going to rob her. Jasnah and Shallan could've interpreted their intent wrongly. Those men might have been a completely different group to the one that had killed before.

There would be no subsequent deaths. Even if she had simply run away, the mere fact that she was attacked by those thieves would have destroyed any protection they may have had. To not immediately take action against the thieves would risk war with Alethkar.

No benefactor would protect those criminals after they attempted to attack Jasnah Kholin. Doing so could be perceived as a major political insult at best, and as protecting assassins hired specifically to assassinate the sister to the king of Alethkar. Those men were dead as soon as they so much as threatened Jasnah.

Nope. I do so very occasionally, on special occasions such as New Years or being in an argument with someone on the shard. TPBM has never questioned their humanity.

And there was much fighting.

The guards were very thankful that Szeth had stopped spouting gibberish. Meanwhile, the Ghanderflaffle empire SWEPT ACROSS THE GLOBE, CONQUERING ALL WHO OPPOSED THEM WITH THE UNSTOPPABLE FORCE THAT WAS THEIR ARMY OF CAPTURED BREADMUNKS.

Yeah. I wonder what the Parshmen spiritweb looks like. Right now it is probably made up of Odium's investiture, but I don't think a shard originally made them.

All investiture in the Cosmere is assigned to one of the 16 shards (spoiled for length): and was always assigned to the shards (Important part bolded): So the investiture in the spiritwebs would be associated with whatever shard created them.