Honorless

Speaking of saying things, could you say the words "my life to yours, my breath become yours"?

Seems like Hoid's backstory, the Liar of Partinel is no longer in the plans. Will we still get a Hoid (origin) novella(s)? Will his story be divided from Dragonsteel to Mistborn era 4, revealed as they become relevant? Hmm, might we see Hoid in this planned Aethers trilogy? With three books for Aether, what're the chances that the meat of the plot remains the same? Where in the Cosmere timeline would it be? Waiting is difficult

The Cosmere?

Date

It happens, man

The Parshendi were probably created by Adonalsium, like all native flora and fauna of Roshar, they have a Gemheart which allows them to attract & trap spren. This is how they get their Forms. The Fused are something else now, in a way,... Cognitive Shadows possessing Parshendi bodies. If you are referring back to the "powers we were forbidden to touch" line, the answer is that we don't know, we can only guess. The Surges probably are dangerous if they were used in some form to destroy Ashyn. I think the spren simply preferred to Bond humans "though broth are we, their meat is men", possibly due to the Parshendi/Singer/Listener ability to attune to the Rhythms rather than express emotion in a more overt manner, like humans do. We do know that Nahel Bond with Parshendi are very much a possibility: Venli and Timbre are Bonded. That Bond didn't happen before could be tied to how they were on different sides of the conflict. The spren were with humans, Honor & Cultivation while the Parshendi were with Odium because the humans switched sides towards Honor and Cultivation, the Parshendi felt betrayed with the Shards and spren and sided with Odium. We don't know exactly how all of this played out but why would the spren try to Bond with the opposing side. And before the Shattering, Adonalsium would've had objection to the spren granting Surges: We don't know what the Seons or Skaze look like on the Cognitive Realm. What we do have are these WoBs: Kelsier could form a Bond, theoretically, but it wouldn't be a Nahel Bond. In that situation, I suspect the Feruchemist wife would be able to access Allomancy from the Bond with Kelsier. I don't know if the other way around is possible. The Bands were Unsealed Metalminds, created via Spiritual Feruchemical metals including Nicrosil which allows one to store Investiture, probably Identity as well, through Feruchemical Aluminium. Again we don't have the full details. I suggest reading up the Coppermind articles on Feruchemy & Excisors

Odium did not leave any of his power behind on Sel

That's what Hoid thinks of himself. It's what he says to in Stormlight But we also see him interact with other characters there, don't we? but let's not base this on Hoid's character, we haven't really gotten to know him that well yet I think he wanted to prevent the tension arising from governmental destabilization, I don't think he was involved in the assassination itself. He wanted Shai to prevent the repercussions, he shouldn't have helped facilitate that situation (the assassination), only Shai's imprisonment so she had to Soulforge Ashravan. The Moon Sceptre, I think, was why he had a long con running as the Imperial Fool that was made easier for him by Shai's plans of subterfuge. If he was only there for the Moon Sceptre then perhaps- but I don't think he was— and that's what the deleted scene alludes to

Welcome! and GIVE ME YOUR PAIN

Are you hitting the "both" option then? Splinter and Fainlife... that's actually pretty terrifying

Yeah, the rest of the theory on what the Shades are we can both agree on this implies that The Evil of Threnody or the Shades are a Cognitive Shadows of sorts of Ambitions power. Not necessarily a CS but the power is continuing to act on Uli Da's wishes before her Death. I'm for this theory myself, it would just have been interesting if the Evil was Fainlife, but it being a piece of Ambition's Investiture does seem more probable. Many people theorize that it might be a piece of Odium's Investiture or Ambition's Investiture corrupted by Odium's. I'm not completely against that but I think what's happening is due to Realmatics of having free Investiture resulting in a form of Investiture irradiation. ~Mistborn era 1 spoilers~

Again, don't forget to put up a review/analysis when you're finished Alaska? Maybe the mailman is... Looking for Alaska *hides after making horrible pun*

Investiture replaces the humans connection to all 3 realms. Spren didnt have that preexisting connection to the 3 realm. So when a human dies and turns into a Shade, the Investiture is imprinting on their connection to the physical realm and some part of them is stuck in the physical realm. This also makes me think that if only part of them is stuck in the PR that the bulk of them is in the CR then the shades must be smarter in the CR. This could explain why in Mistborn: Secret History, Alonoe is afraid of "threnodites" trying to make a move on them Hmm, I think she was referring to the kind of Shades that Nazh was referring to in Secret History, @Eternal Khol, given that she was mentioning "the powers on Threnody" as wanting to join "the stage". I think those are different types of entities.

They are thematic These arches over the chapter headings also depict, aside from the ten Heralds, the double eye of the Almighty and a jester For reference, here are all the chapter headings that we've seen so far: Adolin Bridge Four Lopen, Teft, Skar, Rock, Sigzil, Rlain Dalinar Eshonai Interlude* The Divine Prism, with ten facets representing each of the Heralds, comprised of the Double Eye of the Almighty, symbol of the ancient Knights Radiant Jasnah originally Shallan & Jasnah Kaladin Lift Moash Navani Shallan Szeth Taln Venli As of Oathbringer, we haven't yet seen the chapter headings of: Renarin Shalash The decal sword version of the Double Eye which appeared on Interlude or multiple PoV chapters. I can't think of a reason why certain chapters had the decal and certain chapters had the prism. To be honest, I don't remember which chapter had which or if one of them supplanted the other going from WoK to WoR to OB Interlude* Below are what appear on the arches: Jester The Heralds Double Eye of the Almighty Note: I did this on my phone, so sorry if it appears weird on your computer

All hail Highprince Stormblessed!

Hmm, looking at Fabrials as a natural outgrowth of the relationship between the spren and Rosharan Physical flora & fauna works too, better, in fact

I did say the theory is a bit crazy *shrugs* I'm suggesting a magic similar to AonDor existed, fuelled by the Shards rather than the Dor, possibly their forms did not mimic that of the users' native land at first but such a shift should be possible before D&D Splintering. I mean native lands clearly mean something or speaking languages via manipulating Connection wouldn't be a thing. I tried to explain all this, but yeah, again, this theory is very out there

A late Happy Birthday to you, @thegatorgirl00 And Argent was right about transitions, sorry Chaos

It is suspected that silver might have an effect specifically on Cognitive Entities. Silver can repel shades, a chain made of silver was very expensive in Shadesmar, and the name of the Worldhopper city in the Cognitive Realm, 'Silverlight' might suggest something too

There could be more expressions of the Surges then we've seen so far. Heating, for instance, could just be friction. We haven't even seen a true Voidbinder yet. We do know that all the Surges are replicable via fabrials Regardless, it doesn't really matter. Fabrials could just trap lesser spren and use them to fine tune effects without the need for Bonding and the theory still holds Oh yeah, the Purelake fish too. I've already considered Lift's condition, which came from the Old Magic, in the topic. The Old Magic being used to modify the Spiritweb, which it probably does very often, supports the theory. I wonder what Lift asked for to get better access to the Cognitive Realm and converting food to get Stormlight, the latter part does bring to mind another parallel with the Metallic Arts, that of burning metals in Allomancy, oh well

I think you wanted to quote Domo's comment there, not mine

That is one of the biggest tick marks on the against column of this theory, yes Yup, or magic working within a region a people group have dominion over Oh well, Brandon has said that the reason why the Selish magics act the way they do is because location doesn't matter in the Spiritual Realm but it does matter in the Cognitive Realm where the Dor is located. I've tried to address this the best I could in the topic.

There is more to Cultivation's magic than just Surgebinding or Old Magic. If you think about it, it does make sense that there would be more. Half of the Nahel Bond spren are theorised to be more aligned towards Cultivation but the overall system of Surgebinding is more of Honor. The Nightwatcher too is one spren, there should be more than just her boons and banes. We do know that something like Cultivationlight exists, Cultivation's Investiture in gaseous form: Some people assume that Fabrials are Cultivation's magic, due to some WoBs like: Which makes it seem like there are one for each of the Shards. But I don't think so, after all aren't Fabrials just an outgrowth of the Surges? They are the same forces, being tapped into via artificial rather than the more organic means of spren bonding that we occurring on Roshar including the Parshendi/Singer/Listener (what would be the correct way to refer to them now?) Forms of Power, as well as the Nahel Bond itself. We do also have this WoB though: And that made me wonder, what if, in regards to Cultivation's magic, Fabrials are, once again, "a part of it" Let's observe the Old Magic then, which is confirmed to come from Cultivation for clues Now that's interesting... There is also the magic from Ashyn which is related: Okay, then what do they all have in common? I think this: This has been theorized before, of course, notably here: And it's only fitting, I suppose, that the Roshar and Scadrial comparisons come full circle here. Much like Feruchemy, Surgebinding is of two Shards but leans towards one, magitech! Fabrials and medallions (when will we get a canon name for this?) and this unnamed magic and Hemalurgy. I'm proposing that Cultivation's magic might be a... metamagic like Hemalurgy. That it can be used to modify things via the metaphysical realms but in a more broader sense than Hemalurgy. I suspect that we've already seen an example of this happening: Vyre's knife. A knife with a sapphire on the pommel that glowed when used against the Herald Jezrien. It shouldn't be impossible for Odium's forces to use it, after all: We do see situations close to what's described above in multiple Cosmere books. The Fused have access to the Surges, Allomancy being stolen via Hemalurgy.

I think the Deepest Ones are drawn by humans fighting Shades, which is the impression I got from how & when Silence mentioned them. This seems contradictory to the idea that these would be the more sapient variety that people willingly try or tried to transform into

I should begin by informing you that this theory discusses info which is available in the 10th Anniversary Edition of Elantris, as well as the Arcanum Unbounded. If you've only read Elantris and not the new version then you might spoil yourself. AonDor existed before Elantris was built. We know this because how else would the builders have known the shape of the Aon in which it was supposed to be built? The Dor itself needs to have existed for AonDor, yet I have a theory that AonDor existed before the Splintering of Devotion & Dominion. And even weirder, I also have a theory that the city of Elantris might've been built while she was still alive Don't worry though, I also have a far more sane theory attempting to answer this question right below the crazy one that I've marked under a line of tildes (~) The biggest reason why I think that Devotion might've been there when Elantris was created is the Pool. It had apparent religious significance to the Elantrians. The Pool was depicted in the wall relief in the secret meeting room. It was situated quite close to the city itself, which was visible from the peaks where the pool was located. When entering it, people feel an extreme sense of comfort and calm. The Hoed regained a bit of consciousness in it. The Pool speaks to people when they enter it, offering peace and contentment, wishing to take away their sorrows and pains. Those who do not accept the relief do not dissolve. And it makes sense that way, the Elantrians getting old enough to want release going there to die but finding a new world. Devotion's Perpendicularity just gave the feel from both where it was physically located, to how it was described, it seemed as though it was placed there specifically for this purpose. There's another thing though, in Mistborn: Secret History, we meet... It is very possible that some form of AonDor existed before the Splintering, since the Selish magics seem to be focused on forms & coding. The proto Aons might not have been in the shape they are now (i.e. the shape of Arelon). The Selish magics' focus probably were symbols even before D&D's death, it's just the region-specificity (in form & function) that might have been introduced to them afterwards. The Surges were very much a part of the Rosharan system before the Shards' arrival, weren't they? The magic should change with an event as drastic as its Shards getting killed and shoved into the Cognitive Realm but why would it need to change the part where the magic is utilized via symbols? The change caused by shoving Devotion & Dominion into the Cognitive Realm is that the magics got region-locked due to the Cognitive Realm distinguishing between such. Even so, Selish magics being unavailable outside of Sel seems much more a direct result of that than region-focused magic, which was probably based on the Cognitive Realm itself being affected by people's perception of being different from other groups than anything purely fundamental about having a Shard hanging around in the Cognitive. I'm hypothesizing the possibility that the problem got exacerbated with their Splintering rather than being created due to it. There's also the fact that 'Aon' is derived from Aona, Devotion. And that Seons were born when Aona was Splintered. The Seons have Aons at their centre which are Splinters of Aona. Which means Aons existed during that time. The religions of Shu-Korath (Domi, united through love) and Shu-Dereth (Jaddeth, united through obedience by the rule of a theocratic government) seem divided between Devotion and Dominion and the magics seem to reflect these divisions too, observing AonDor vs Dakhor, though it might be correlation rather than causation, after all, they are splinter religions arising from an older religion, Shu-Keseg. We know that Sel's Shards, Devotion & Dominion were killed by Odium and that their power was stuffed into the Cognitive Realm to form the Dor. We also know that this is the reason why the Selish magics are locked. We see evidence of the conflict between Shards on all of these other Shardworlds except on Sel ⚠ Stormlight Archive minor spoilers (info on the cover blurbs) ⚠ Spoiler  ⚠ Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell spoilers ⚠  Sel also houses dead Shards but the only effect seems rather... mild, is it related to how Odium locked them in the Cognitive? Or is the region-locked magic its version all that remains as evidence of conflict between three Shards? Why is Sel still doing so well despite having two Splinterings? Neither Threnody nor Roshar are doing so well ⚠ Mistborn: Secret History spoilers ⚠  The lack of any direct effect from the Splintering I can accept, maybe Odium finished the deed in the Cognitive or immediately locked the remnants in the Cognitive after killing Aona (Devotion) and Skai (Dominion) but why isn't there any evidence of a planet scale war? There must have been some evidence of the conflict for Khriss to deduce what happened. Who would the conflict be staged between on Sel? On Roshar This is assuming Odium even needs to subvert people to create hatred between groups to somehow damage how another Shard is perceived, or that he tried to pit Devotion and Dominion against one another, these are just theories and are in no way confirmed. But if such a conflict did occur, was it waged between the continents on Sel? On each continent? Opelon doesn't have indications of such a conflict. Except maybe the city of Elantris and the land of Arelon, which was found uninhabited by its would-be settlers, the Aonic people, led by King Rhashm who would go on to rename himself King Raoshem. Did Devotion and Dominion just die to Odium? Ambition fought, Honor fought, Devotion and Dominion must've fought as well, Elantris and the land of Arelon could have been a staging ground for the conflict between the Shards, which might've been why it was empty when it was found, having been on the side that lost I should note that so far as we know, both the Splinterings occurred within a few thousand years of the Shattering. And Odium could've very well ignored the inhabitants of Sel and only concerned himself with the Shards he was there to kill. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The less crazy theory is ~Mistborn: Secret History spoilers~ I know, I know, the first one was a crazy idea, right? There have been counter-arguments to a lot of the points I've raised, including the possibility of a Cognitive Shadow of Aona being the voice that one hears when submerged in the Pool or that the feelings invoked are a direct effect of the Shard's Intent, both very much possible with what we've of other Shards like Ruin, Preservation, Cultivation, Odium... It could be that the location of the city was based on proximity to the pool instead of the other way around, it could also be sheer coincidence or something made the liquid Investiture of Devotion coalesce there ~Mistborn & Stormlight spoilers~ So how crazy did you find the first theory? And What did you think of the second theory? Do you have any other theories on the origin of Elantris?