LewsTherinTelescope

I definitely disagree. I don't think his core is necessarily change, but I'd say the concepts are interwoven to a large extent. To quote Ruin, People who feel are people who do, and do in a way that leads to change. Similarly, when Dalinar sees Odium's essence: It's not a force specifically for change, but these emotions aren't exactly the "sit there and do nothing" kind. They're the kind that push one to act. (I don't particularly think Transformation or Progression line up well with Odium, though. Merely commenting on that particular statement.) Eh.... Odium can be used in other ways, but I'd say it's very strongly a destructive thing still and you kind of have to twist it to do other things. For example, the "hate can unify people more quickly and more fervently than devotion ever could" quote. Yes, it can unite, but generally the unity is in order to fight or destroy something else. Theoretically, I think one could take the concepts played with as maybe Odium-y and make them non-destructive (especially the ones from the OB quote as opposed to just hate), but the books haven't really given an indication this is actually the case with the Shard as it is, imo. Like, the moment T picks up the Shard, it just starts urging him to mindlessly destroy and rage. (And then Moash exists and is somehow Odious despite being the opposite of everything we've been told Odium is... so honestly idek.) (Which is one of my main complaints so far, it really kind of feels like Odium is trying very hard to challenge the "no Shard is evil" WoBs lmfao. And it feels that way even more after RoW than it did before, to me. RoW felt less like "Odium isn't inherently bad and Honor isn't inherently good", and more like "Odium's forces aren't inherently Odious and can leave him and become good", imo. It feels like the books want to add complexity with the "passion" stuff, but whenever it would actually be relevant, the Shard just becomes pure hatred again. But that's a longer conversation I don't want to get into right now )

Stormfather says Odium killed the Almighty: a couple times, actually: as does Tanavast himself: and of course, Rayse does take credit for it: I suppose technically this doesn't rule out the idea he killed Tanavast and someone else Splintered the power, but I'd find that surprising, cuz idk who else would do that (were Culti to do it, Odium would wreck her when she overextended herself, and I'm not sure why she would anyway, and I really don't see another Shard coming into the system to Splinter a Shard whose Vessel is already killed and then leave).

"As far as we know" From what I can tell, they're regarded similarly but distinctly Here Navani seems to concede that "Voidspren" isn't quite the right term. Same thing here with Rlain and Venli, they mistook Tumi for a Voidspren but realize that's not exactly correct. We also do know that at the very least stormspren are not originally of Honor: and I think it would be weird if they were originally of Cultivation, since winds and storms are all associated heavily with Honor. And when we do see corrupted spren, they don't seem to change type, necessarily, they're just... different. Corrupted windspren are still windspren, etc. I think it's not impossible the spren are kind of imitations of the existing spren, in a way, but they do seem to be regarded different from the corrupted ones.

Ruin is the idea that things must one day end, + entropy. I don't think "breaking things into their most basic forms" quite works (though it doesn't not fit, in many cases), considering we've been told Cultivation, who is all about growth and building up, is the Shard it would be most compatible with.

We do. OB 113: Afawk, Voidspren are different from corrupted spren and are actually Odium's, no? (Though I'm not sure how much we KNOW for certain.) It's possible that it could relate specifically to the method used to make the Fused as well, yeah. I kind of go back and forth on whether it does or not, as I change my mind on what exactly the Fused are, lol.

And that it involved Dawnshards. And that it was very similar to Radiant Surgebinding: And that it was using stronger uses of the Surges: There's also this WoB: We don't know a ton of details, but we know a lot more than just "Connection was involved". Yeah, this is my stance, personally. Venli proves Connection is certainly not beyond his ability to grant (and BAM may point towards this too but we know too little there to say), so I feel that he just doesn't want the Fused to be able to break themselves free from his control. And it just so happens his excuse might make the Fused even more pissed at Honor, which is a great bonus for him.

Not a result of the Splintering except I suppose technically indirectly. Last we heard, it takes place between Warbreaker and Stormlight (though I don't know if this happened before or after the reorganization where WB got moved closer to Stormlight by a lot, so might be between Era 1 and WB instead). So yeah, combine that with the fact that Silence's grandparents came over from the Homeland, and it looks like at the very least the Evil didn't force evacuation for seven or more thousand years after Ambition's death, though since we don't know its nature it's hard to guess if it might've been around but minor for a lot of that time or not. (Also, this means that Nazh likely is from the Homeland, which is interesting.)

to be fair, doesn't need much asking, considering Dalinar explicitly states it lol

Small note: Moash wasn't actually the interlude throughline in OB, that was Venli. Moash had normal chapters.

I think it's worth noting we've seen only a tiny piece of Threnody, and not a particularly Cosmere mechanics-aware segment at that.

Nice catches A relevant WoB to this: That's still preeeeeeetty vague, though.

To be fair, we were also told Lift produces Stormlight, and look at what that turned out to actually be (I don't think she was providing a different Light, but I certainly don't think it's impossible that it may have been a blended light and the Radiants just assumed it was Voidlight because "what else could it be?") This theory was fun to read and see the time put into writing it, but personally I don't think it's terribly likely. Others have already brought up most of the arguments I would against the core idea of the post (such as the Stormfather knowing both separately), so I'll focus on new arguments on parts of the post that are smaller but nonetheless pretty interesting to actually dig into. In this case, an alternate idea on Ba-Ado-Mishram, and some mechanics of the Oathpact. Personally, I think she was a sort of spiritual precursor to the Sibling (who we know was only created after the war started), a kind of child of Cultivation and Honor. Breaking down her name as a Vorin-style name with the halves of words gives some interesting results: Ba: "bab", which when we take the H rule into account could be "bah" (meaning: seemingly something in the vein of "child of", though we don't know for certain, it's just context clues) Example: "Rysn bah-Vstim" from Dawnshard (it's mentioned in one of the books that Rysn is legally considered Vstim's child) Side note, could "babsk" come from this? Ado: "adoda" (meaning: "light") Example "Adolin" means "born unto light" Mish: "Mishim" which is the green moon Perhaps refers to Cultivation? (listeners at least do associate the moons with the Shards, see "Honor's moon" for Nomon) Issue some have raised with that: why isn't Nomon named "Merem", if they're named after the Shards? My potential counterargument is that perhaps Nomon was renamed at the same time that Vorinism took Honor and renamed him to the Almighty. ram: "maram" or perhaps "ramar" (neither of these is a known word, but the string "maram" is part of Amaram's name, so I'll guess that that one) perhaps an older version of the word "merem" (meaning: "honor"), following the same vowel shift we see with Kalak -> Kelek I actually asked Brandon about this, the answer was a RAFO but vaguely in an affirmative direction. Additionally, the Sanskrit word "मिश्र" (depending on the romanization you use, transliterated as "miśra" or, more relevantly, "mishra") means "mixed" or "blended". And one of the forms of the word, "मिश्रम्", is transliterated as "miśram" or... "mishram". And we've been told that Alethi words with Sanskrit roots IRL are intended to represent words coming from the Dawnchant: So yeah. Name IRL means "blended" or "mixed" and is from a language usually indicating Dawnchant roots, and her name broken down in a Vorin way might (emphasis on might) mean "Child of the Light of Cultivation and Honor". Combine that with how essential she seems to have been (her removal seems to have caused deadeyes to be able to exist, and it sent the Sibling into a coma and caused them to lose the ability to hear the tones of their parents), I feel she was a godspren of H&C mixed, similar to the Sibling, who was unmade by Odium or perhaps Fused (I feel that the "betrayal" hinted at by the singers may be some of them unmaking her, which would be a big deal potentially). (I also think that the Eila Stele referencing "our gods: ... spren, stone, and wind" refers to Mishram, Nightwatcher, and Stormfather.) (Credit for the Sanskrit part goes to @mdross81 for originally pointing out "miśra" and @asmodeus for taking that and pointing out the form "mishram". asmodeus also started the process of breaking down BAM's name over on the Discord, which I then continued to get what I have above.) (Man, I really need to write up a proper post on this to link to instead of just rewriting bits of it over and over again...) Interesting idea. Unfortunately we do know that the Oathpact was specifically an agreement between Honor and the Heralds: and that the Oathpact is only an indirect part of him being stuck: so this seems unlikely. Stormfather also mentions this about the binding of Odium: LMAO that's an amazing analogy. New terrifying fantasy duo coming to conquer and/or destroy the universe, Ishar x Lanfear.

The Seventeenth Shard, an organization based out of Silverlight, does. I don't think we know about any policies the city itself may or may not have.

Another bit on this topic: the Stormfather's conversation with Eshonai, where he argues he maybe should be doing more: (I wonder if this is why he was willing to consider Kaladin's request in Oathbringer, because he very recently had been struggling with the same debate, despite his outward steadfastness he usually displays.)

Nah, Lezian mentions being on Braize between resurrections. It's worth noting that Odium's forces seem to have established a backdoor through the Oathpact, according to Pattern, though it's unclear if a full strength Oathpact would still work to block it where the weakened one failed or not. (This is of course also demonstrated by the fact Ulim was on Roshar.)

The recent spoiler stream adds some interesting bits to this:

Brandon has explicitly said that atium being able to be Pushed is weird. Part of this theory is proposing a way for it to be the case besides the current answer, which is just "...it breaks a lot of rules... that everything else has to follow".

Even atium alloys are Invested enough to be "very useful" for resisting Shardblades, and the question of godmetals being "Invested" in the first place is a weird one. So I don't see any godmetal being un-Invested enough for that to be relevant to this case, personally. We don't know the exact sizes of the beads, but the lerasium is described as "tiny", "so tiny", "small", etc repeatedly.

As I said, The main point is not "lerasium is better than atium in Hemalurgy" (though I do think in terms of raw Investiture stolen lerasium will almost certainly beat out atium). The point is lerasium is likely way stronger than the non-god metals in Hemalurgy, while atium is only slightly above most but perhaps not even all of the non-god metals in Allomancy and Feruchemy. (Again, just in terms of Investiture, not in terms of usefulness.) And I was specifically raising that argument as a response to someone saying lerasium in Hemalurgy might be as relatively "weak" as atium in Allomancy to say that their argument does not seem to be the case, not as a broader argument over which metal is more useful to possess.

Depending on what all it steals, it could have a pretty high loss factor and still be above any other metal in terms of raw power stolen. (Again, I'm not referring to usefulness, I'm referring to actual Investiture used/stolen/stored/etc per bit.) Even highly Invested and as such resistant to being used as a spike, lerasium steals far more than nearly anything else. So I don't believe being more densely Invested is the sole reason for lerasium to be stronger than atium, as I have most commonly seen proposed is the case.

Sure, but the Hemalurgic table says lerasium "steals all abilities". So it's less powerful than in Allomancy, but almost certainly still far above every other metal in power. Considering there's been essentially no experimentation done with them as far as we know, I don't think we can say there's nothing else. And due to the fact that this trait is still manifest even in things like sprenblades, which are more complicated than just tanavastium, I'm inclined to guess that this is less a trait of tanavastium and more just a trait godmetals can be given, personally (same way the Honorblades can be made to grant the Surges, when that wouldn't make any sense if it was just a natural property of them, since different HB grant different powers). This is more than we've seen atium do outside a magic system. I would also note that we have seen neither of those used in the Metallic Arts yet even though we know they're viable, so taking their passive effects and comparing that to atium's active Allomantic and Feruchemical effects feels to me like a bit of a false equivalence.

Something also worth noting is that Demoux is an atium Misting. It's possible that medallion tech could be used to let him Compound his youth. (I don't think this is likely, mind, just an idea worth putting out there.)

I guess. It just doesn't really jive with me to describe it that way, personally, but I can see the argument. It's certainly impressive, but in terms of effects in Allomancy and Feruchemy, it doesn't feel to me like it's directly doing much more than some of the other metals, it just happens to be a more useful variant. Compare that to lerasium in Hemalurgy, where it seems likely it steals a lot of attributes at once, and which is capable of permanently rewriting the spiritweb in Allomancy. There's a preeeetty large gap in raw power there. And while there's the theory that lerasium is more concentrated and so more powerful, which could work for Allomancy, that would actually be counterproductive for Hemalurgy, since Investing something already Invested is difficult (this is the reason given for why a Shardblade can't be a spike), so I don't feel that works. (To be clear, because that previous section implies otherwise: my point with Hemalurgy is not that lerasium and "refined" atium [which I theorize to be the pure form of the metal] in Hemalurgy are especially different in power [lerasium is stronger in raw power there, but in a way I feel can work logically if certain conditions are placed upon things]. It's that, even where being Invested is a drawback, lerasium is incredibly powerful, so I feel its power difference in the other systems likely also has to be more than just raw Investiture levels. In this case, I think it's a combination of Investedness and of Ruin's metal's stronger raw power being filtered and limited by the electrum.) Ah, yeah, I phrased that poorly didn't I (like, really poorly)? What I meant was he suppressed the fact electrum exists on the table (as opposed to, say, atium, where most understood atium was on the table but didn't believe Mistings for the metal existed). (At least, I think that's what I meant, maybe I just paid no attention to what I was writing and screwed up xD) I'll edit that to clarify, thanks for pointing that out! The "even atium" bit was an aside, the greater point was that Preservation's metal in Ruin's magic is almost certainly still stronger than every single base metal by a large margin, so Ruin's metal in Preservation's system and in the mixed system seemingly being only marginally stronger is strange, to me. (Note that by "stronger" I do not refer to usefulness, as atium is incredibly useful in both Allomancy and Feruchemy, but in terms of like, things done by the metal. I wouldn't be surprised if bendalloy and cadmium in Allomancy actually require more power than atium.)

Sure, but that's still stronger than every other Hemalurgic metal (including atium), in terms of what's stolen by a single spike.

Well, I can't imagine "steals all abilities" is likely to be terribly weak, no matter what exactly it ends up meaning.