Frustration

That was my point, @UnfortunatelyNamed has been arguing using modern lightweavers, I was saying that modern mistborn are even worse off. Jasnah wasn't that good on one year of training, that's all the lightweavers have had.

You know other than locks, doors, armor, enemies, dozens of other ways that soulcaasting will be helpful when the literal end of the world is just two weeks away. No, with enough investiture you can overcome it. The soulcaster we have seen are all either fabrials, or barely trained novices. I think they have the ability to soulcast just as easily as Jasnah does, with slightly different strengths. You're not changing my mind without evidence. So no more than one at a time. Electrum shows multiple futures for you though, so same amount of fortune is needed. And get instantly encased in stone the moment they try. If they train enough to react to electrum, and can escape in time, and don't run out. Yes, regular people, not the magic ones who can fly, and burn them to ash, the regular people that they can kill with a flick of their wrist. And if they don't want to fight, are born with disabilities, decide they want to be scientists, or engineers instead of soldiers etc?

here

Going until State of the Sanderson.

Yes, healing is harder when fighting against perception. We haven't seen what the past Elsecallers were like so there is literally no baseline for any sort of claim that she is above average. I think it is possible that they have the ability to do more than we've seen. Elend and Vin only used it against seers. And if the Mistborn can carry more than three vials the Lightweaver has dozens of pouches containing large cut gemstones. The only evidence that you have against it is that Shallan is an idiot, and that one year is not enough to learn soulcasting, which we already knew, because Jasnah said she struggled with it when she was younger. Lightweavers train to fight sixty foot tall stone monsters, and entire armies. Mistborn in modern times will be people first, allomancers second, because they don't have a need for assassins anymore.

No problem that happens sometimes.

We just went over that

Okay yeah that's right. The Physical realm isn't bound that way but the Spiritual and Cognitive realms are. And while yes more mass would have an effect, I doubt it would be proportional. Burden of proof is on you, you can't ask me to prove a negative. Sample size we have or not it still isn't large enough to make any kind of conclusion. They might have a few minutes worth at most It isn't Mistborn are from a general population, in a society that doesn't focus on combat. Mistborn are less combat focused then Lightweavers are.

Szeth knows what honorblades are, he calls them that throughout the rest of the series.

@Lunamor is chill.

Szeth called his Honorblade a shardblade until WoR.

Yeah roughly 1/10 can do any essence.

She was able to shove a man, and turn not only him but the people he touched into crystal, and that was before Dalinar opened a perpendicularity. She didn't stop and concentrate she simply shoved him. Perception, most people will assume it took more effort to move a larger object regardless of their densities. And how do you know Jasnah is more skilled than the ancient Elsecallers average? Shallan intentionally repressed her abilities so she clearly does not count. Vathah developed a new soulcasting technique, so he clearly has some skill with it. And we haven't seen any of the others who have all had less than a year to train, with no teachers, for a power Brandon is deliberately keeping until the back five. That does not work as a suitable sample size. Source: As the only difference in work between atium and electrum is the mental benefits electrum should burn only slightly slower. The Lightweaver doesn't need to spam the ability, just the threat of them being able to do it is enough to force the Mistborn to use electrum, and given that Lightweavers can tell if someone is high on firemoss by looking at their soul they might be able to tell if the Mistborn is using electrum. Not really. It would be closer to Kelsier's trick of spinning metal rods at most.

One of the ten essences is pulp, but they have soulcasters that can only make wood, not grain or other plant matter. And steel isn't only metal, and the fact tat Azimir has one that can make bronze is considered noteworthy.

Hemalurgic spikes. Welcome to the Shard by the way. And for future note, please don't quote posts from two years back.

No, they would not be the same, but both would be on par with, or harder to affect than living beings. No she was pretty casual about soulcadting things away from her. All soulcasters are, by their nature used to dealing with resistance. Just because some things are harder doesn't mean that only the most skilled can do them. It's just a change in the Cognitive/Spiritual realm, that reaults in a physical change. If it actually provided the energy needed for nuclear fusion Urithiru would have the power to destroy planets. And Jasnah is above average for Elsecallers too now? Mathematically she IS the average. Source, for any of this? Not just what we have seen so far I have gone over why that is a narrative choice rather than an actual restriction on their power. What is the source for saying that Lightweavers are better at Illumination than Transformation? The Mistborn would need to always burn electrum to see if their about to be trapped, and electrum is one of the fastest burning metals, they will run out long before the Lightweaver is unable to soulcast. It also mentions difficulty focusing, and where Radiants will already resist... It would probably work, but I doubt it would be as effective as you imply.

Mistborn can't burn shardblades without a Connection to Honor, as was said in that same thread

Speculation heavily supported by known mechanics of soulcasting. Shallan didn't get Illumination first. She was just unaware that she could use Transformation. That would require them to duralumin burn bendalloy, and not to mention that they would need to ingest all of their metals to do this.

TLM spoilers are not allowed in this forum. Someone calculated it one time, I'll try and see if I can find it.

It says they are betrer at soulcasting at a diatance, not all soulcasting. "...stone is often among the most difficult of materials to work with in soulcasting--even more so than living beings..." Ergo you mist be just as skilled as Jasnah to do it, nevermind the fact that it's probably easier to soulcast at a distance than it is to burn words onto a page. And you know Jasnah is above average lightweaver in skill because? The wall had more volume as well as mass. I fully believe that it would take the same amount of Stormlight to make the wall out of stone as it was bronze. Windrunners are traditionally one of the most martial orders, but that doesn't mean that their average skill level is above and beyond what anyone else xan do. Likewise, just because from what we have seen, lightweavers spend more time on Illumination, does not mean their average is incapable of using Teansformation effectively. What? The order they get surges has nothing to do with their strength in those surges. No more than the fact that Kaladin got Adhesion first makes him better at Adhesion than Gravitation.

You do realize that fans write the coppermind articles? I could go in and rewrite thar right now. That's not what it says, it says that stone is more difficult, and then adds modifiers meaning stone is harder under most circumstances. That's like saying that because we won't see Tension used until Taln, who has had thousands of years to practice becomes a main character, that only someone with thousands of years of practice can use it. Brandon is specifically keeping certain surges off screen until the later books so that he has new powers to show off. Skill and power are two vastly different things. Sure, when Jasnah turnes the rock into smoke in WoK if mass was conserved it would have killed everyone in the hallway instantly. But it wasn't, likewise when corpses are soulcast into stone they don't shrink. I don't think the mass of the created object is proportional to the Stormlight used. I'm saying that traditional focus of an order doesn't result in specific skillsets. That's entirely done to keep from overwhelming the reader, not because one surge is stronger.

I'm assuming you mean quite easy on that last line. Stone is known to be harder to soulcast than living beings, even if some is easier that makes it about equal to living beings. Yep. Nope. Kaladin isn't faster than the others, he can't lash larger objects with the same amount of stormlight, his full lashings aren't stronger. He's been making tunnels in the wind(including highstorms) since OB(page 322 and 602). And in RoW he didn't do that, the Windspren did. Considering that mass isn't strictly conserved I have to disagree. Because Windrunners aren't better with Lashings, Lightweavers aren't better with Illumination, etc. Back up. The Sleepless, repaired, a giant hole in solid stone, to the point it couldn't be seen, and also removed massive stone pillars that created a perfect barrier around the island they didn't want people to get to, the pillars being larger than buildings. How? Being good for the ideals doesn't make you more powerful. Well if you want to go by focuses then yes the average Windrunner would be like Szeth, because they spend a lot time focused on learning their weapons. And you know that all Lightweacers focuswd exclusively on Illumination and completely ignored their other ability, because? And because we didn't see it means it didn't happen? Where does it say elsecallers focus more on Soulcasting than lightweavers do?

That won't work. Singers have cognitive and spiritual openings that allow for this, and even then they have to be willing for the Fused to come in. Gavilnor has neither of those.

Everything is investiture, just in different states. Shardmetals just have investiture in more states. Just like how solid iron and gaseous iron are both energy, one just has more of it.

I don't think what form the stone takes will matter that much. We'd heard nothing about combat flight until WoR either. Brandon has been intentionally keeping Transformation for the back half. I fail to see how either of those helps her. Kaladin is basically the perfect Windrunner, but he isn't noticably stronger than others. We have no indication that high oath levels make people more powerful with their surges. What does the density of the material have to do with stormlight consumption? Even assuming the instant they realize that their shadow stopped moving they conclude soulcasting and move(which they wouldn't as unlike Atium electrum does not give enhanced mental abilities) they likely won't entirely get clear, especially with the air pulling in. And that's assuming that ten meters is the max range, and not something Jasnah decided to keep her forces safe. And that's them being better at soulcasting as a whole not having small differences that manifest as different strengths because? So where'd the opening come from, and where's the hole she made when she turned herself into smoke? Average would be closer to what we see Jasnah do than Shallan. Other than Shallan who intentionally suppressed the ability, how many Lightweavers have we seen in combat?