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I didn't think so, but it's good to clarify your claim for posterity. Regarding Syl's interest in a sexual relationship; I'm not convinced that she probably wouldn't have much sexual interest. There is a passage, after Kaladin investigates the grain silo in OB, where Syl talks about how she has been watching people have sex for research. There are (at least) two ways to read this. First is as humor. Syl finds the idea of sex as bizarre and tawdry. She is teasing Kaladin about how gross human being are. That sort of idea. An aside to the reader about how sex is messy and gross from an objective lens. The Second is as part of development. Syl finds the idea of sex a bizarre, but interesting. She finds it gross, as a human child might, but her opinion may change with time. We know that she understands and seems to use physical interaction as a human would (hugging Kaladin). To me that indicates a potential (only a potential currently) that sex might be a concept she could become familiar with and/or desire. Kaladin also is interested in a sexual relationship, because he is 90% of humans, but its not the driving force for him. He isn't sex maniac or anything, and doesn't really think any sexual thoughts. Shallan, for example, has comments about kissing Adolin, and some more R-rated thoughts during the end of OB, whereas Kaladin doesn't have those types of thoughts about Shallan during his flirtation with her. Even when they are hiding from the Highstorm in the Chasms he doesn't mention it (as far as I can remember). I would wager he is more interested in the emotional intimacy of a relationship than the sex, and it wouldn't be a deal-breaker for him to have a non-sexualized relationship. Personally, I think they are already deeply dependent on each other. They both are used as a crutch by the other. Syl for access to the world and implementation of her ideals (she empowers him as a method to make the world more honorable, in theory; in practice, the bond is more two directional than that). Kaladin for companionship and a guiding moral compass in what he perceives as a moral-less world. As an aside, love is very complicated and very irrational. I don't claim to understand it, or what really makes a relationship successful. Frankly I'm not sure how Kaladin and Syl's relationship would change if they suddenly said they loved each other. I'm not even sure what it would like as a scene. Most of the relationships I've been in started as friendships, and still were friendship as they happened. There is also more, but defining what that more is, that's the problem. Maybe I am less connected in a relationship than most, but closer to my friends than most, so the line is blurred. Maybe that would be the case for our characters under discussion. I think Traveler might be right that a romantic angle wouldn't deepen the relationship. I think that makes it a reason for it to happen, not a reason for it to not happen. Traveler also mentioned that Syl wants a relationship for Kaladin. What she wants is for him to be happy, and sees a relationship as a vehicle for that (this is paraphrased). If he was 100% certain that a relationship with her would make him happy, than it would satisfy her goal in finding him a partner.

I legitimately laughed at this. Also laughed at this. I'm at about a 25% about it happening in SA4. I think it is very likely it will happen eventually. The reasoning about him being replaced with Iyatil is just a possibility though, or a guess at what might happen if he is killed off. I'm just talking about the institution as others have mentioned. The faith that individual people have is inherently unassailable. It can be subverted or damaged indirectly however. That would be an effect of having the institution destroyed, just like if the Vatican was destroyed tomorrow. Some people would struggle with their faith if that happened. As for Jasnah, its a talking point for her, but it is not a character trait. Her and Dalinar have a whole conversation on how lack of faith is not what defines her. The cultural aspect, as @Pathfinder mentioned, would still be in place as well.

She is the de iure head because she is "lawfully" the head of the order. That being said, there isn't actually an order of elsecallers. Just her. De facto is true as well, but doesn't carry the same connotation of "lack of substance" that de iure does. There are increases to power as a head of a dismembered order, but they are very minor compared to the most, or second most, populous order in the Windrunners. The concept of how they view themselves as a factor in their power is definitely in Jasnah's favor. As for Queenliness, she is queen in exile, and as per the arrangement that Dalinar made with Ehlokar (though it won't carry directly), she has no actual power while in Urithiru. So I suppose, in an absolute sense, they are pretty close to equal. If you factor in bearing and presentation, Jasnah has the clear edge. The only person who supercedes her is Dalinar in that regard. As for Syl, you aren't wrong. I think those things (Nahel bond and romantic relationship) could run parallel to each other, not compete. You think that they are part of the same space and therefore would compete (correct me if I'm wrong). We have no indication that either opinion is correct other than personal feeling. As for sexual reproduction; I would be cautious in implying that the possibility of sexual reproduction is a precursor to a romantic relationship. That being said, Syl can change her body on the physical realm with thought. I think that she could probably achieve that in the CR to a degree (I don't think she could become a cloud, like the PR, but she could probably become closer to human physiology, as it doesn't run too counter to her spiritual self). Plus, while I think physical intimacy is a key component of a romantic relationship, sexual intimacy may not be. In other words, hugs make the world go round, sex is just a bonus. And Syl has literally hugged Kaladin on the CR.

I'm curious what PR tactics you perceive. Sanderson is a really great author, so I think that if he wanted to make her likeable, he could. I generally assume that he is capable of writing most things, and is actively choosing to not do certain things. As for "forcing her" on us, that's not how content creation should work in my opinion. An author writes what he wants, and hopes that people also like it. He occasionally tailors his work to his general audience, but I don't think he would do that for a specific character unless he it was the other way (people wanted more of someone). If you don't like it, than you should feel free to stop reading (or continue to skip her chapters like you do already). I did that with Sansa for most of GRR.

Relationship are both more and less responsibility. In a good relationship, the two players support each other where they are weak. Very few relationship are equal in this regard, but I've found most of mine to be close enough, such that I don't generally feel like I have more responsibilities (though not the same responsibilities) than when I started (beside being a better person, which is what I should be doing anyway). That being said, Kaladin doesn't need a relationship where he is noticeable more resilient than his partner. We don't need him worrying about yet another person. In Mistborn Era 2, there is a segment where the main character just drops off side characters on top of a building so we as the reader don't have to worry about them during the action. Shallan is not good for him. I don't actually think Shallan is good for anyone. She is classist as you mentioned, immature, and disrespectful (of everyone, including herself). The best she has been with people is with Adolin so far; she gets him to think about things he never considered, and he helps her to be stable. Not the worst trade-off. I should mention that the bad parts of her are 100% a product of her circumstances, not innately bad things. She has the capacity to be much more than she is right now. I wont comment on most of the Jasnah+Kaladin stuff, since we've hashed that out, but I don't think there is a power disparity. Kaladin is the head of radiant order. That makes him one of the most powerful people on the human side of politics. He doesn't choose to exercise that power, but he does have it. Dalinar is his boss, but Dalinar is the most powerful man on the planet. Jasnah is really closer to his level of power, as she is a de iure head of a radiant order, but is one of one (or at least Ivory suspects so). To compensate, she is a queen. But of a nation in exile. Most of her power comes from her personality and bearing, not actual power; just as Kaladin's perceived lack of power comes from his behavior. Worth noting that Jasnah is 100% aware that dark-eyes are not inherently worse than light-eyes, so she doesn't perceive a difference there. I think Syl would work out. In a sense it is already working out. They have a closer bond than most relationships. If they chose to make that relationship romantic it wouldn't be much of an additional burden. Regarding the physical intimacy, they have the minimum required interaction on the PR, and could be actually intimate on the CR. This is assuming that the war is over, and the perpendiculary in the Horneater Peaks is an easy transition. Kaladin would probably like to live in the Horneater Peaks anyway with a huge pseudo-family in Rock's clan and easy access to the sky.

Someone above said it, but I'm pretty sure that Brandon has commented that he didn't really love the resolution of the love triangle, or the resolution of OB at all. He had more post Thaylen stuff planned, but it suffered from some trimming. I'm personally pretty sure that Kaladin is over it, and disagree with the whole "lightweaver magic" comment that people make. It's never really said explicitly that his fondness for her was due to mystical elements. He says, "I felt something, a lightening of my burdens when she was around." To me that speaks more to Shallan's general ability to disregard her problems. It's something that Kaladin envies. Or her sense of humor, which he gets and appreciates. Also, liking someone because they remind you of a sibling you're fond of is a fine, non-mystical reason which you might like someone. It's not necessarily linked to both of them becoming possible lightweavers. That said, we'll continue to get mentions to it, and possible future discussion. If you look at the relationship between Marissi and Wax in Mistborn part 2, you get some good idea of the comments that might crop up. I think it is more than likely that Sanderson just wanted to get the triangle out of the way, having decided that there is enough drama in SA without the need for a relatively minor thing like that. Or that he wanted to move the drama away from specifically Kaladin and Shallan. They are both still main characters, and will have plenty of screen time, but I think Sanderson might look to their parts for cuts instead of diminishing the flashback characters as they come and go. He definitely wants to avoid and/or reduce the bloating he felt with Oathbringer. I did forget about the Tarah sighting. I'm not sure what will happen there. She is probably more likely than anyone on my previous list, except for the "unknown" placeholder at number one. That being said, we really don't know that much about her, which might put her more in the "unknown or currently minor character list." I'm pretty sure that Lyn and him are not a future pairing. She is fated for another bridge four member. The gap is between 80 and 150 by most estimates, but she may be returned, so functionally younger. The whole age gap thing doesn't seem to bother Sanderson a ton also. Siri and Susebron are 33 years apart in age, despite Susebron being emotionally younger via isolation. Plus these kinds of relations aren't unheard of in fantasy, where a 500 year old elf might marry a 30 year old human. As for Azure leaving, it's possible she'll stay. She probably doesn't have a reason to go back. If she is returned, she could live like Vasher using stormlight. If she is just immortal because of the number of breaths she has, then staying for Kaladin's lifetime, or anyone elses for that matter, isn't really an inconvenience for her.

I think Lirin is a 100% I think at least 2 heralds (some of the unimportant ones) will bite it. Ishar. Moash wont kill him, but I could see Dalinar and the gang taking care of it in this book, or in book 5. Then he goes back to Damnation, which gives Moash an excuse to go there and see what the place looks like. Mulata, Mr. T, Adro, the Diagram all are possible in this book. Mraize. He is some kind of junior Ghostblood in training, and Shallan will need to make a decision regarding the fate of Jah-Anat. Might end up killing him and inheriting some of his power (and a new boss in Iyatil). I think Shallan's brothers are 100% (in some number) Some number of Alethi High Princes. Maybe Aladar? 100% on a bridge four core member dying. My vote is on Hobber. Since he has recovered and improved so much it makes sense for him to die. Could also see Dabbid sacrificing himself unexpectedly. The Vorin Church. It seems like a good morale crusher for Odium to destroy the Church in entirety. Especially if they start swinging opinion back toward the radiants after some evidence that the radiants are good. People I don't think will die: Anyone with a former or planned flashback book. That trick has been done, I don't think BS will repeat it, at least not so soon. Moash. He is destined to die later. Venli. The whole point is that Eshonai died instead of her. Adolin. He may die, but I don't think right now. He is the key to reviving blades which is something important I think. I don't think he'll have a bad book either. Book 5 might be bad for him though. Gawx. He is being groomed as a good future ruler. He isn't there yet, and wont be killed until he is (if that). Any Shin (on screen). I'm pretty sure Shinovar is a book 5 adventure. Nale. He is destined to die in book 5 by Szeth's hand. Killing him with Nightblood probably will have the same effect as an Odium-blade.

Shen/Rylain He is conspicuously absent from the back half of OB, which some people think is because he went off looking for the surviving Listeners. If he just pops up on pg 12 of SA4 saying "hey how about that battle of Thaylen Field, oh wait none of you remember me there cause I'm different wahhh" I'll be pretty salty. and Shallan's brothers They have all this great characterization in WoR, and finally show back up in OB. If they are just around in the background from now on that would be sad. They need to get some screen-time, maybe become squires to Shallan or part of her burgeoning intelligence organization. and Jenet (the horse lady from WoR) Sanderson has mentioned leaving Rashadians as a future plot point, and Jenet is given some good characterization in WoR as well. I'm hoping we see her again as a key side character. and Azure If she is nothing but a glorified easter egg, and doesn't show up in any meaningful way, then I'll be sad. I don't think that SA is necessarily the place for her and Vasher to have it out (it's not their books), but she had a lot of screen time to not show up again. and last, Cusicesh Cool world-building element, but kinda weird if it doesn't pop up again.

I don't think so. If we look at some other "connected but separate" series, we have a good baseline. 1. Star Wars prequels to originals. We have cross-over for sure, and we have the same bad guy. But two things happen; first, evil wins. That opens a path for a resistance type situation. Second, we have Darth Vader switching sides and providing a different focus for the Original Series. Also these are prequels, which means that there is a need for the bad guy to be present in the originals. He isn't even the primary villain until Revenge either, just sort of similar to Thanos. 2. The Hobbit to LOTRs. We have hints at a greater evil on the horizon, but we don't actually do anything with it. Some of the characters migrate into the second series, but the primary story is completely finished. So far there have been no hints at a threat greater than Odium, so this style seems unlikely. 3. MCU. Thanos gets some screen time for 75% of the movies (movies in the "main" story) without being a primary antagonist. He is in the background, but not the primary target. When he finally gets going, he wins. Then we have some timey-whimey whibbly-whobbly to reverse that (which was great, but also a cop out in a way). None of these three have the primary antagonist defined in the 1st series, then only have their second in command or representative defeated at the end of the first series. From sequel to sequel, sure, but from series to series we don't get that kind of lack of resolution. Sanderson doesn't have to follow the same narrative structure, but it seems really unlikely that he would have his endgame villain introduced in full power (not actually, but burning Dalinar's mind is close enough) 1/4th of the way through the series. I would be very very surprised if Rayse is still around, either because he is dead or fled from Roshar by the end of series 1, unless of course he "wins" the front 5. Him winning the front five seems most likely of these to me; we'd have the Humans fleeing Roshar, with Dalinar as a fully ascended Unity; and Cultivation shattered. The back half could be the invasion of Roshar by the Radiants and interplanetary allies. This doesn't even seem especially likely. So I guess to rank the probability of front five resolutions 1. Something we haven't guessed yet 2. Odium wins 3. Odium flees, forces defeated 4. Odium is shattered, forces defeated 5. Odium's forces are defeated, Odium remains.

@Pathfinder I don't want you to drop the conversation, this is fun, intelligent (at from my perspective, maybe you think I'm dumb), discussion, and I like talking with people who are passionate about a subject. You speak with certainty and conviction; I think these boards, in an attempt to maintain a polite environment, sometimes have too much backtracking. You've found a point and are holding to it. You wrote essentially a full length essay in your linked post, which has some wonderful points and great analysis. I am not remotely offended or intimidated by your responses. That being said, if you don't want to comment further that's OK too. Regarding the Linked thread; I find a lot of it excellent. In general, however, you ascribe thoughts and feelings to Jasnah which are unknown. I wont claim I read the whole thread, but did get through most of the OP. You take observations from the text, which are already filtered through a biased narrator in Shallan, and attribute a fair amount of "inside" perspective. Much of it I agree with, and you shouldn't assume I don't view Jasnah as a deep character because I think she would benefit from close relationships. However, it is as much speculation as this thread, and well supported as it is, isn't an absolute truth to everyone. Your concept of Jasnah as a character is far more well supported than the faint concept of Kaladin x Jasnah ship, but only some portions of a possible relation between them contradict the character you laid out. They are not mutually exclusive. As for how the thread has "shifted to trying to convince you" that's only fair. You are definitely are the most certain and engaged person who doesn't feel the ship is realistic. By having that opinion, and wanting to defend it, you do invite some amount of challenge. In a sense, you defending your heretical beliefs, not proselytizing them. I've been considering this for over a year now. Vivenna x Kaladin is certainly worth further thought, although we haven't heard a lot about her* yet, so I am uncertain. *At least not in the SA I'm not sure how OK it is to talk about Warbringer here, but I think there are some solid points for this pairing. Vivenna and Kaladin certainly have similar notions of betrayal, and both love lost causes. However, on a deeper level, Vivenna has a strong desire to protect Siri, and likely is performing some sort of protective function by hunting Nightblood, but doesn't have the same all encompassing focus on it like Kaladin. She has her own, as of yet unrevealed, motivations for certain actions. The biggest surface level knock on their relationship (her abandoning her "duty" and not going to Thaylen City), is something that Kaladin could definitely forgive. So for me, this book is still open, but seems less likely than a couple of others. I guess I'd list our probability of characters becoming romantically involved as follows: 1. Someone we haven't met (I think that the there is a high chance we wont see him with anyone on screen so far. Or someone who is very minor currently, like horse lady) 2. Syl (It's been a while since I mentioned this, but there has definitely been what I consider flirting between them) 3. Laral (We've seen a couple of hints, but they could be red herrings, and I am 100% sure that Roshone will be out of the picture at some point soon) 4. No one / it's never focused on (Entirely possible, could be a "learn to love himself" and we see him finally looking for a romantic partner at the very end) 5. Jasnah (They have complimentary strengths, for me at least) 6. Azure (They have similar backgrounds) 7. Shallan (this would be a late back five development at the earliest, with a dead Adolin and a lot of growth from both of them) 8. Anyone else.

There is definitely a lot of subjugating male gaze on Jasnah as a character. Plenty of people don't like that she is as strong as she is, or that she seems to function that way totally without support. I think that Kaladin and Jasnah could really be strong where the other is weak, and not in the dismissive way you present it. Jasnah doesn't need to learn to be emotional or sentimental or less draconian from Kaladin; she needs to learn to be part of a group of less intellectual people. She clearly can form bonds, and is affectionate with her fellow colleagues via reeds, but cannot tolerate a fool as she sees them. So far we have not seen Jasnah work well (or at all) with someone who is less intelligent than her. Kaladin, on the other hand, really needs the guide of logic to temper his guilt. Jasnah provides that in droves. Kaladin and Jasnah are both broken people by their own admission. They both need to be "fixed" to become as good as they can be. I think Jasnah needs a relationship to help her overcome her personal struggle. That relationship doesn't have to be romantic, and it doesn't need to be with Kaladin, but her personal perfection does require her to reach out to another. Honestly if that isn't the character arc she is on, I really cant see one for her (as we have seen her at least). As a viewpoint character, that almost certainly isn't the case. Kaladin needs to be able to let go, and I don't think he is capable of that on his own. He had a real trial immediately before Thaylen field, and failed, even with Syl's help, to overcome his own guilt. He needs assistance, and Jasnah is nearly perfect at controlling herself. She may be able to provide some of that to him. Thing is, there is a one year gap. If we are told that he has been spending ever free moment hanging out with Gavinor, than we will just have to take that as fact. They could have a connection that is established off-screen, and then built during SA4. I think it would be a nice dimension for Kaladin, he can seem a little shallow at times. As for "his own people" it takes him all of 30 seconds to build those same connections everywhere he goes. It takes him a couple of weeks in Kholinar, and a couple with the Parshmen. He is wildly prolific in making close, almost familial bonds with people, and having that relation to someone who is not a brother in arms would be new. Plus having them close sets up some cool stuff in the back 5.

I want to note that Skar and Drehy certainly have MORE of a right to care about/protect Gavinor, and the most organic thing would be for them to become personal bodyguards for the child (with some quips about how its way easier than looking after Adolin). But, it wouldn't be inorganic for them to be treated as an extension of Kaladin, and even cede the task to him due to lack of confidence (and overconfidence in Kal). I also don't want to imply that Kaladin really had to do too much to "save" Gav as you mentioned. I stated that way to convey the scene, not to assert its intent. Skar and Drehy are minor characters unfortunately. Some of their best moments have to be given to others, although I personally like Skar more than Kaladin. Drehy hasn't had any viewpoints so I can't judge. I also wont comment on the morality of having an external event (like the death of a biological father spurring a surrogate father) being the primary cause for two people to become romantically intertwined. But Sanderson clearly feels it is OK to use as a device, as it is the inciting romantic method for Adolin and Shallan (as well as Warbreaker, Elantris, and Alloy of Law). He may even prefer the logic of a cold soup becoming warm over the serendipity of a soup being warm from the beginning (the idea of love at first sight). I should clarify; Jasnah absolutely wouldn't ask Dalinar (or ask Kaladin directly) to assign a windrunner to protect the child because the windrunner would be good at protecting Gav. She would ask because of the political effect of having the most "knightly" and archetypal type of Radiant guard the heir (or just herself). As Navani says, "The bridgemen didn't understand the power they lent the throne." I bold ask because she is not in charge of the radiants, and it would be a nice moment of humility for her to have to ask Dalinar. Not that she is arrogant, but she is very confident, and a less acute observer (like Kaladin), might attribute arrogance to her. The edit on your post would point me at saying Sanderson gave outs for Kaladin to care about Gavinor. He did fly there for Drehy and Skar, but we cut to black before Kaladin might say something like, "It hadn't occurred to me that Gavinor was the aim of this mission, but that's really great because I wanted to save him/protect him" kind of thing. Not an affirmation, but not something that Sanderson wanted to focus on at that moment, or maybe just for the surprise effect.

At least, he hasn't thought about it yet. You make some good points in your post with book quotations. However, in his final appearance in Oathbringer, we don't get to see his real reaction to Gavinor being found alive. That leaves it open as to both the role that Gavinor will play in the upcoming two books, and how Kaladin treats him as a way to redeem himself. We don't get a resting moment with Kaladin after he rescues Gavinor, but after a one year time gap, he will have had plenty of time to think. And it may occur to him that guarding Gavinor is the best way to "make up" for his failure with Ehlokar. This is all straying for the prime topic though; If Sanderson decides to go the route of a Jasnah+Kaladin pairing, he'll have two ways that are certainly believable if not well laid to get them together. The first is through Gavinor. It think it'd be at the very least believable to make him retroactively feel responsible for Gavinor, even if he didn't demonstrate it so far. The second is through Jasnah herself, who may request Windrunner guards to use their prestige (like Navani does). Kaladin doesn't like being manipulated, but is certainly pragmatic enough to support Jasnah against Sadeas resurgent (or a different Alethi counter-movement). These are outside of more extreme measures like getting them stranded like Kaladin and Shallan. Basically what I'm saying is that you're right, he hasn't so far demonstrated any connection to Gavinor, but that Gavinor remains a possible avenue for getting Jasnah+Kaladin in the same room for extended periods of time. There would be great humor and the possibility for romance to get those two as surrogate parents for a four (now five) year old.

Guilt is very strong driving force for him. We know he feels guilt over the death of Elhokar, and over his inaction immediately following it. Taking care of his son seems like a good way to assuage his conscience. He definitely has a connection to Gavinor, he helped save him, and even though his bridgemen did the heavy lifting in the end, he still helped. Honestly it seems extremely obvious to me that he will care about Gavinor going forward. The question of whether he has too much on his plate is really irrelevant, as it is with all selfless people. He will keep taking on tasks he feels are his to take, regardless of whether he can handle them or not.

You are totally right. Kaladin still is Dalinar's bodyguard, and the bridge crews who are not Radiants are still intermixed with the cobalt guard. Besides the scene where bridge 4 is somewhat manipulated into being guards for Navani, they aren't generally guards. At the end of OB even, all of bridge 13 goes up as squires and they stop guarding Dalinar. That being said, I am pretty certain that Kaladin will take a personal interest in guarding Gavinor, and may spend time with Jasnah for that reason. Not that I am strongly for a ship of Jasnah for anyone.

@bxcnch Totally agree. He is one of my least favorite characters so far. Plus he did something the Jasnah when she was ill as a child. I'm excited to get his perspective on his final night in book 5.

I didn't post the ones that seem to have a common consensus about them (on coppermind). @ILuvHats I didn't consider the Moelach himself as a type of silent gatherer. I think the Shin sample is more of a direct to camera comment. Szeth makes a couple of comments that his people have watched for the return of the enemy. To me that says they are prepared to fight the singers, and believe they have a chance at victory. That would mean they strongly disagree with the fatalism behind the Diagram.

It is and it isn't. To look at your WoB: And people do very much throw out refugee's for their beliefs, even if they are just loosely connected with something. I do agree that Honor is probably above that though. When we listen to the Eila Steele, we get a sense that the Singers were taken by surprise when the humans invaded (we'll likely get more about whether they were from a trip to Shinovar). If I was Honor, I think I would have found it to be my duty to warn the Singers that the Humans could be tainted, and should be treated cautiously. At least for a time. I think you're definitely right; there will be blame on both sides. I am really interested to see how Sanderson reconciles the two vs. one issue within the established rules he has set out.

Well, we are looking at +10°C high on the coast in the summer according to the Australian Government, so 50°F. So, I guess about 150°F in the summer. So not really survivable outside. Point seen. That being said, the end conclusion is the same for both of us; there has to be some sort of supernatural solution implemented, and by WoB, it wasn't the genetic type implemented in the north.

@Honorless Whoops! Thanks for the heads up. I suppose so, but that seems excessive for one of these chapter intros. Usually they have a little bit of a deeper meaning. I honestly don't remember the details of that passage. Does he comment on how now he has to live with the night or something?

So we have some number of unassigned death rattles left. A bunch of them are pretty clearly linked to events that have happened while some either aren't linked or haven't happened. As we have seen, nothing glimpsed in future is definite, only possible, or likely. And it would make sense that Moalach is more likely to share visions of the future with dying people that proclaim Odium positive outcomes, so these all need to be taken with a grain of salt. You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! I can't think of an event to match this one A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. This sounds like Dalinar during the first vision in OB. He watches Kholinar fall to dust, and senses Odium (the waters) far beneath. And then he sees himself, a metaphorical child, at the moment he almost falls to Odium at Thalyen field (when he is crying). He also at that time is hearing the crying of children as he remember Rathalas. I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop? This also may be a Dalinar reference, as he speaks to Cultivation in the valley. He wonders if the rain (the voices of his victims) will ever stop. Could also be about something totally different. I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done? Given that the speaker is a Veyden sailor, I am almost certain that this is a reference to the upcoming Veyden Civil War. I don't think this has anything to do with Tien, as Kaladin wouldn't wonder what we have done, rather what he has not done. I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. I cant think of an event to match this one. The Diagram pretty clearly views this a metaphor for those that need to die in order for the world to live. Might be part of Shallan's past, and her mother believes that killing her would forestall the desolation. But she isn't really suckling age at that point, and she doesn't seem to be hesitating in killing Shallan during the actual event. The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! This might refer to the occupation of the Kholinar Palace by the Unmade. Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above. This is a Ketek. Seems to me to be about how Honor's death (the illuminating storm) leads to Odium (the silence, as a void) ruling over the planet. The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather! I can't think of an event which this matches. So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... This might refer to a decision by honor, or an honorable person (which usually refers to Kaladin) to spare someone from death. Night reigning seems to imply that Odium wins.

I'm more curious about the reverse. So if a brass ferring stood in a fire, could they store the heat from the fire? There is a WoB that is a little unclear So I guess we are wondering where exactly brass is "pulling" heat from when you stockpile. If you are pulling uniformly from everywhere on your body, then to make your skin cold enough to not blister, you'd need to freeze your internal organs. If you can direct where the pull is happening, then you end up with something more simple. You make your skin very cold, and the fire heats it to prevent it from freezing, while you store the heat that would be used naturally. If you are stuck pulling heat from your core only (the center of your body), then you'll end up blistering your skin and not drawing any more heat than normal. I think the second one is the only option, as we have a whole race of Southerns who need heat. They have a limited (probably very small, based on the low amount of metallic arts in the South) number of "Firemothers and Firefathers" who have to store heat all the time to give it the rest of the people. Their natural heat at one to one will only heat one person, even if they are comfortably warm. If they can essentially light themselves on fire, and stay pleasantly cool while storing heat, then it's more realistic for them to heat the whole race of people. Back to the original idea: based on the above WoB, the feruchemist could make themselves so hot that they would ignite the air around them. However, once that happened, the ignited air would kill them. So they can make themselves hot enough to do that; but they can't survive that. They could do it and then make themselves cold to survive (assume my logic above works), but it'd be more like a quick burst of heat then a melt metal heat.

We can realistically assume that the average temperature spread is a little different than what is presented here. A huge number of factors go into the disparate temperatures on Earth. We could have a thinner atmosphere. We know that the planet is exactly 1 Cosmere standard, and that Yolen is roughly Earth-like; but that might be slightly different. I'd give it the old Sci-fi +/- 10%. In that case we are dealing with 103°F which is more livable. The big problem for me with this analysis is the Ice Death. When Kelsier visits them, he says they are freezing to death/suffering from hypothermia (as @Kingsdaughter613 mentioned) in weather that isn't that severe. But if we had an instantaneous transformation into the original planet, then the weather on the Southern Coast of the South Pole would be very cold. For this reason, we have to consider a supernatural solution. Actually, the Ice Death part of all of this never really makes sense since we have the pole under "mildly cold" weather after the planet is restored. So maybe my question is how the pole was so temperate both before and after the Catacendre?

@ILuvHats Your last WoB makes sense. It's definitely established that Brandon values skill over raw power. That being said, we have the following timeline: Honor and Cultivation Settle on Roshar and chill with the Singers Odium is on Ashyn at some point afterwords Humans destroy Ashyn and travel to Roshar, with Odium Singers and Honor/Cultivation welcome humans Human invade from Shinovar (first desolation) Humans switch from Odium to Honor/Cultivation (somewhere all between 5 and 8) Singers switch to Odium (somewhere all between 5 and 8) Honor/Cultivation turn against Singers (somewhere all between 5 and 8) Continuous desolation Oathpact End of desolations Recreance Current Day So, my question is how did Honor/Cultivation decide to welcome humans when they knew that Odium was with them? It makes me think that Odium may have "come in peace" as it were, and then sneak attacked Honor is such a way that weakened Honor permanently so that it couldn't be one on one between H and O. Then Cultivation feared attacking Odium, in case he disengaged and came to kill Honor. That left her trapped defending him. Then Odium sets up on Braize and begins a siege of Roshar; first by manipulating humans, and then the Singers when the humans switch to Honor. Then Honor and Cultivation devised a way to trap him on Braize. This maybe involved Cultivation leaving Honor to go set something up, and Odium kills Honor and "snaps back" to Braize when Cultivation completes her plan (although it leaves her too weakened to fight Odium directly). Honor then dies a slow death, and sets up the Oathpact to give Cultivation time to come up with a new plan. I really doubt that it will come down to simple "Odium is a better knife fighter" type of stuff. I am almost certain that Odium somehow pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other at some point to weaken them.

I definitely get this part, and wouldn't be surprised if that was all it was. But I also wouldn't be surprised if she played some part in his death, either as part of an even Longer Con (with or without Honor's knowledge that he had to die), or for the aforementioned conformance to her intent. This part I am not super clear about. Basically, how did they muck it up? It was two versus one pure power wise. We get a pretty much 1 to 1 mutually assured destruction between Preservation and Ruin (once both are weakened by locking Preservation's power in the well, and Ruin's Atium being burned). The only reason Leras didn't do it is because he was limited by his intent. I don't see Honor, who is shown through Kaladin to be capable of destruction, and Cultivation (destruction, at least partial, allows for growth), being limited in this respect. Maybe they didn't want to risk themselves being hurt, but then they kinda suck. I mean, you take one for the team to destroy the pure essence of hatred right? Hopefully this will be answered.