Oltux72

People reading SA, TFE but not SH? I supect a scene early in SA 5 where Adolin tells Felt to check whether a group of new arrivals is from Scadrial and to try sounding them out for a guy called "Lord of Scars" leading to a full loss of control over his facial expression on Felt's part.

Well, if Shallan acts based on that assumption, does it really matter if she is wrong? Kelsier will not just leave you alone after you've killed his people and thwarted his plans just because you claim a case of mistaken identity. Kelsier is most likely to have an organisation with an HQ. Even if the name on the signs is something like "Survive or bust" or "Misty Metals", this is not going to stop Shallan. For that she would have to fundamentally turn against Hoid. And Kelsier is even likely to have people on Roshar independent of Harmony. I'd suspect the beringed steward from the intro.

He is living on a world that features the mists has a continent with so much of a god metal that they can base a common technology on it has at least one if not two perpendicularities

Makes sense.

Shallan and Adolin were the target. Subtle wouldn't work. Trolling is unlikely to be his style. (Rhythm of War release party)

Gavilar, Gavilar the conqueror? Why? Seriously, why? He wanted to bring back Radiancy and prevent stagnation. With himself as immortal leader of course. No, I am sorry, but all of them? Hardly. There must have been a large number of them who were perfectly happy to see the Parshendi problem solved for good. Even if they sort of agreed that Radiancy had to end, why en masse and immediately. The Spren can simply do that by literally doing nothing and waiting. They just don't rebond. The Recreance is mysterious and important, but not explainable by a simple guilt trip.

Why not Valor? She is free again.

What I meant by circular reasoning is the following: We are told that Thaidakar is suffering from an issue similar to a Herald. A Herald has three features likely relevant for this issue: he is a Cognitive Shadow he inhibits a body created by arcane means he is subject to the oath pact We just assume that Thaidakar is Kelsier and hence jump to the conclusion that his problem is #1 and then conclude back to think that the Heralds cannot leave Roshar due to #1. Do we have further data? Sure. One is obvious, but for the second I had to dig. One is dangled under our nose: Zahel a.k.a. Vasher a.k.a. Warbreaker. This may be Endowment's special case. The others are a bit hidden. (Secret History) We do not see them. We get something even more valuable. We get a glimpse of what people thought and knew about Cognitive Shadows CSes were so common that guards know how to recognise them -> unchaing a CS cannot be prohibitively expensive they came from Threnody which is in another solar system -> they are unchained by mere humans Kelsier knows that -> why does he not bug the Ire instead? If you have a Fused to study (which must be recent), why do you rush a project to capture a Herald? So you go to them to buy a weapon, which can kill their most important agent, but you do not buy what you really need? Granted, they may have stolen or copied it (atium may work as well as raysium), but then you really are using a completely untested device. Possible, but how can the Ghostbloods know? I do not, but why not tell Shallan where they are, so that she knows in which direction to run? Or prepare for the eventuality that she has to flee without being able to retrieve the communication box? This operation is ... (not family friendly) Alternate theory: Mraize lost his seon before communication started (or the cube Shallan took on the expedition was not the original). She did not talk to Mraize via Seon. Hoid is framing Kelsier. And he messed the operation up. Hoid is not a paramillitary officer. If we subtract the information we have gotten via Seon, the evidence for Thaidakar being Kelsier shrinks to almost nothing.

I forgot one group "The forces of Threnody" He was pulled back before he became a Sliver. Deatable. Arguably only while they are bodyless. And he needs to do that now, really urgently. Why? That is exactly why you test. Odium is a Shard. Even he ran a weapons test. With Stormlight that would surely have run out given the travel times. With resupply difficult. Yet you are giving you operative a seon and a god metal weapon but no perfect gem. I am running out of palms to put my face into. This operation is ... unprofessional would be an insult to the world's amateurs. Yes. Why? They could have put in at least some observers. Safe houses. supply dumps. You spend fortunes on equipment and then you risk that she dies from thirst if she has to escape alone? This was unbelievably badly organized. Then you know what you should study. Well, then maybe you should buy that rather than make strange missions. But then they have a Fused to study.

They have Seons Why tell his people of his problems then? Why then launch a badly prepared mission for Kalak? This state of affairs may be seen as actually better than going in person.

Zahel Hoid's boat future Dalinar (no point in turning him into a Fused to send out if he cannot leave) Here we are entering circular reasoning. We are assuming that he is a CS because he cannot leave and he cannot leave because he is a CS. Assuming Mraize told the truth. Assuming it actually was mraize at the other end of the seon call. Then why not stab a Returned or a Fused? This just makes no sense. Unless of course it must be a Herald. But then why did they not capture Ash when they had baited her? But if it has to be a Herald, Thaidakar's problem is not being a CS, but the equivalent of the oath pact. And then we and Shallan are being misled. Why?

What body would Odium put Dalinar into? How do Fused work without gem hearts? Why could Dalinar leave Roshar? Can all Fused?

Yes, but where is the problem? Rayse wanting to turn Dalinar into a Fused to send out shows that Rayse had such ambitions. They are just partially implemented already.

And yet another set of issues They have figured out how to get Stormlight out of the Rosharan system They know how to get a Seon off Sel They are supposed to be from Scadrial. If anybody understands Connection, it will be the people with duraluminium compounders And you want me to believe that they cannot unchain a Cognitive Shadow? Fair enough. It explains his ruthlessness. But not the inefficiency. And with respect to Shallan they are inefficient. a seon god metal an innovative fabrial an aviar If a middle manager can sign off on that, what do they have at the top level? But they cannot free a Cognitive Shadow? Neither do they know that it works. Or what it is intended to do in the first place. Did they just assume it would capture instead of kill? If Odium's side told them or they have a mole would they just assume that their peculiar weapon is functional and ready to use? Without training? And did they just believe the Fused, who would be quite happy if another Herald were killed? So their plan is that they send a seon an irreplacabble weapon an irreplacable potential member with an untested weapon to a place they have problems infiltrating to kill a being with unknown combat abilities and no clear plan for her escaping with the captured entity after an action her companions would deem a heinous, sacrilegeous crime with no training, no alternative routes or options no briefing (sure she'd be stupid enough to ask for a Herald) If a mid-level operative can order such an operation, they need to work on internal procedures. What they must have spent on this would have bought a lot of mercenaries. As opposed to risking the capture of a member with a Herald-slaying weapon abusing a diplomatic mission committing murder? Something does not add up.

Ambition and Mercy clash in their Intent. So do Mercy versus Dominion and Mercy versus Honor. If you are ambitious you pursue your goals ruthlessly and mercilessly. Domination is not really merciful. A part of Honor is justice (see the Skybreakers) and keeping your word and allegiance even if that means brutality (remember Rathalas and the Stormfather). Mercy and Cultivation also have a problem with each other. If you don't grow, Cultivation will pluck you out. Not really merciful. Seeing Mercy as basically good is a very peculiar view point of some cultures.

2b - She needs a Shard that is at least for now controlled enough to make a few negotiations and oaths possible. Then the new Odium leaves. He and the Shards allied to him fight it out against the other Shards. They either kill each other or Cultivation finishes off the wounded survivors. Ultimate growth strategy and pure Macchiavelli.

I would consider that job to be shared between Ambition and Whimsy.

This expedition makes for a gripping yarn. But it makes no sense for the Ghostbloods. Not if you think it through under the stated purposes. Motivation and equipment (a.k.a. overly robust techniques of motivation) Kalak and the purported Kelsier share a goal. They want to make Cognitive Shadows mobile. Kalak looks ready to do things I shall not mention to get somebody to develop such technologies. What is the Ghostbloods first action towards him? Shallan, stab him to death! Even if you have the technology to contact him in that gem, why? It lacks any sense. Methods (a.k.a. living on a prayer) You have a weapon. The only other time such a weapon was used, it did, for the purpose of capture, fail catastrophically. Granted they may not know. Then they still have amerely used, not a tested weapon as far as they know. You have no idea whether your version actually fell into your hands undamaged or if you copied the design, whether you made an error. And then you give it to the hands of an untrained freelancer. If she just conventionally kills Kalak, he will go to Damnation. And if he survives, she will waste an irreplacable asset. Cost/benefit analysis (a.k.a. pointy haired middle managers) You have a weapon containg a god metal. Most likely a substance of which exist at most a few kilogramms in the whole Cosmere. You handle it in an unsecured package without guards to an untrusted trainee, who used to be the assistant of an enemy less than a year ago Target selection (a.k.a. work by Rube Goldberg) You are supposed to be put back into a living body. Like a Fused. You want to experiment with one of the rarest beings in the Cosmere whose body is created by exotic means. If the Ghostbloods were desperated and needed this to be done now, why is this not in Iyatil's hands? Somebody is trying to trick somebody. I am not sure what is what in that web of lies, but the cover story is flawed beyond repair. Who wants a Herald dead: Odium - for obvious reasons Hoid - as long as Heralds are alive, one of them may die and break, which could set Odium free again, should the current Desolation end What else could they do? There are options. Just wait till he leaves assault the city All the clues that associate Thaidakar with Kelsier directly come from Hoid. Even the news that he is a Cognitive Shadow is transmitted via Seon. We know that Hoid has been to Sel at least twice and is a Lightweaver.

Timing. We know the dates of Alloy of Law. SA 1 - 5 is a few years before that. You'd have to squeeze the whole history of the Ghostbloods into 200 years at most. And that for an organization that can send middle managers on trips over multiple worlds.

I suspect that Riino as the last true Elantrian - and that is how they will see it. The upstarts under Raoden don't count - is the most junior member and rumored to not be entirely stable (they may have a point). Somehow he permantly draws the shortest straw and has to man the early warning station. The only time we really saw the Ire the bonds among the members were not friendship and mutual valuation, but rather cooperation for a common goal under jealous, pompous and greedy competitors.

Hedonism - we lack an equivalent of Dionysos. And the other would be Caution/Prudence/Fear/Wisdom. And that also explains wht Harmony did not talk to them. One is permanently stoned and drunk and the other is too cautious to answer.

Right. nasty Shard close by Fused nasty Larkin eating Investiture

The problem with that is that the premise is wrong. The Returned and Odium's condition of getting Dalinar's soul show that the solution to the problem is known to many.

I hate to say this, but this confirms nothing The device could be thousands of years old It may be second hand Or they had middlemen buy it at a trade fair.

Slander. He isn't. He is fighting for justice as he is seeing it. Yet if the duell is official and both governments agreed to it, it is legal and the law of the land. Of course he would be proud to continue a noble tradition.