Furamirionind

The two interactions I have had with Kidpen felt forced. The first one, I made an argument for not voting for Joe, and he responded by voting for Joe and going to bed. I understand going to bed, but personally, I thought I made quite a good argument. The second, was in the nonsense voting of C2. He basically come by just to say he didn't understand what was going on (iirc), but implied he had been keeping up with the goings on of the game. I just don't think he has had a village mindset this game. Why are you suspicious of Bard?

And this is exactly why you all should send all your boxings to me. I promise to keep them safe from the greedy hands of Drake. I don't think my vote on snip is doing any good at the moment, so for the sake of putting pressure on someone else I suspect, I'll switch my vote to @Kidpen as well. Snipexe Kidpen

: )

inactive/semi active. Bugsy also probably should have been italicized... Though in his case, there is probably just enough content to figure him out if he is an elim.

Yes, they could have... But that is a big gamble. I made a big deal about what should happen, and I don't think they would assume I am going to go against it just because I can. They would be risking their entire elim team, on this one gambit, that even if we clear them now, we can always scan them later. Elandera, why don't the two of us make a reads list. Lets see where everyone falls. I encourage everyone else to make one as well.

I mean, I've been mayoring all game... It's a bad habit of mine. Personally, I took issue with what Snipexe was saying, which is why I was pushing so hard. He is saying Drake should be elected Governor(?), yet won't vote for him in protest... That's at least how I interpreted it. I adamantly believe we should get a governor. It doesn't have to be Drake, but right now, Drake and myself are the two I'll support, and I think people will respond better to me pushing for Drake over myself. Edit: Even though, statistically, I'm even less likely to be an elim than Drake is... xD

They had to, but they would need me to not complete the loop. To prevent that, they would need to kill me (actually, killing me tonight works too, just not as well), or they would need to fake a red claim on me. Based on how mechanically unlikely it is that they are elims anyways, with neither me being dead, nor being accused, I'm willing to clear them. Striker and Bard could still be elims though. If I am an elim, then so is Drake, which means so is Striker, which means so is Bard. That gives a 5-6 person elim team, depending on if you think Alv is evil or not. Possible, but even more unlikely. If I am a villager, if Drake is an elim, Drake would be forced to take action against me. See why he is hard cleared? Edit: Note: I do in fact think I am similarly hard cleared, but I know people don't like others arguing for their own villageness. xD

I am trying to motivate everyone to do a pro village action. Sure, it doesn't work for you. Will you please do it anyway and ignore my post? It's pro-village.

My question: Does it matter?

I explained why you should vote for Drake. Please explain why everyone should not.

Snipexe Fine, you feel free to be suspicious of anyone that votes for Drake. I however, am trying to get a governor elected. I dont care who, as long as they are village. I dont care the reasoning everyone has to vote, but I do care that they do vote. You, by saying this, are directly opposing electing a Governor. Which is something that should give the village an advantage over the elims. So, you going to vote or not?

...I dont understand where you are getting that from. Drake is a villager. And therefore, we should vote on him for governor. The only people who dont want a villager Governor are the elims. Edit: @Young Bard I think Joe probably assumed the village would be going crazy over the daggers, and through that, harm the village both by killing mostly villagers, but also handing the daggers to the elims.

Haha, Drake you used the ledger on me? I was actually my first choice for who you should use the ledger on, but for some reason, I felt like I didnt appose the you/striker team enough... xD The fact that Drake didnt fake a red scan, and I wasnt attacked, basically hard clears Drake as village. As long as I get whiskey tonight, I can scan Bard and hard clear this chain... However, that raises another question. If Bard is an elim, why would he pass the Ledger to a villager? As we all know, there is a ledger out there that no one has claimed, meaning it is held by an inactive or elim. I'd guess elim, as the inactives in this game, I think, are all active enough to pass on a ledger. Question: So! If the elims control 2/3 Ledgers, why would they pass one on to the village? Answer: they wouldn't. Proof being the non rotating second Ledger. Conclusion: soft clear Bard and Striker, with a hard clear on Drake. So... I'm thinking I wont complete the circle tonight... : ) __________________ Oh, and at this point, the only people who shouldnt be voting on Drake for Governor, are the elims. Edit: I morally take issue with Alv flipping evil. Yes, there was evidence against him. Yes, he was playing this game like a neutral, and not a team. However, if he is an elim, why would he kill El?

Hmm... I'd be fine with that. Though since you said it in thread, I doubt youd be fine with it now : P

Honestly, I trust Alv. He just described the only possible situation that would morally justify killing El. I don't think Alv would Randomly kill her just cause he can. (I mean, I do think he would do that, but not in her first and possibly only game back for a while) I still kind of want Alv dead, but I think he is village now. If there is someone who i find I think is evil, I'll vote for them over Alv.

Oh. Lol. You could have said that in a slightly more passive way. : P

Yes. 1. And I know you are expecting it to be asked. How do you know if she was evil?

the only games I played with the same tone/mentality are the MU championship and LG50. Other than those, historically, every game I have played, I have with a very different mindset and playstyle. There are some parts that are consistent, like trying to organize village actions in-thread, which historically, no one has listened to... and love of PMs. Everything else about my playstyle varies drastically between games. Probably because I am a big fan of high risk high reward plays, and those work drastically different depending on the ruleset.

I don't, I discussed this later, which you didn't quote. I also didn't notice your vote was on Bard. I have thought about it. I am just tired of thinking about the two of you. So I refrained from posting something that would start another long conversation/debate. It is funny you both missed the deadline. She was around, but trying to go to sleep. yup nope Ok, to be honest, I am quite annoyed. I went on hiatus from SE specifically because I don't have time to play this summer. including this game. I joined, specifically to play with Hael, Burnt, Bugsy, and Elbereth. That's the only reason I'm in this game, and idk if I'll get another chance. I'll be in this community for 1 more year, then I have uni, and idk whats going to happen C1 - I'm mostly inactive due to IRL commitments. Burnt Dies. C2 - El and Bugsy are inactive. I focus on general game analysis as I don't have much time. C3 - I interact with Hael a bit both in PMs and in thread. El starts becoming active, Bugsy might be becoming active? I get a village read from El, and had no idea what to think about Bugsy. Then El dies. Idk if bugsy is coming back or if he will have time. So yeah. That's the only reason I'm in this game. is this also how I play as an elim? I mean, this is exactly how I played LG55, but I also said in LG56 I was going to start playing my normal games as if I was an elim, cause I got tired of people tunneling on me. Now, I haven't been trying to play this like an elim, but if I am... Oops. Maybe that's why I wasn't killed C2 though? That's fine. I explained in our PM why I am ok lynching Alv, beyond that, Hael's info makes it seem like Alv killed El. Either he did that because he was an elim, or because he just wanted to take her out with him and he is a villager. He got his retribution against Ark, so either way, I'm happy lynching him. If he comes and claims he didn't stab El, then that means one of Snip/Hael/Alv is lying, which brings up a completely differant discussion. So for the moment, we target him. I don't particularly care. Hael is still alive, and as long as he is alive, I'm not going to be lynched/killed without putting up a fight, but im too frustrated to care about looking bad myself. I never care about winning directly. If I don't try to win, then the game isn't fun for anyone, but winning isn't my goal. Especially not this game. If you kill me though, do me the decency of stabbing me. That way at the very least, I'll go to the dead doc like El and Burnt. I have already addressed this no one is storming... forget it Hmm Me too Im 90% certain he did, but I don't feel like checking right now. already addressed this too. well, if there is a case to make Drake Governor, then I'll join I guess? Fura, Drake Sure, and that's a good reason to suspect her. But who do you think is more likely an elim? Alv or Rae? If your answer is Alv, then her attempted hammer should be a factor in her favor. It could have been distancing, but her post was significantly longer, with analysis against Alv. If her vote had counted, Alv would be dead as well. And it sets up for an Alv lynch this cycle. Edit: If Burnt or El were killed because the elims felt they needed to kill them, then that's fine. But I can't see any reason villagers or elims would choose to kill El over someone else like Bugsy, me, Drake, Striker, etc. Edit again: Unless El was on point with her reads. But she read me as elim.

... ... ... *starts sobbing* Edit: As for choosing a governor: I would probably be fine with a Drake or Rae governor. Maybe Hael as well... idk. (Drake because he is the least likely to be an elim out of Bard/Striker/Drake, statistically.) Off the top of my head, those are the only people who have a chance of getting my vote. Though I would by far prefer myself as governor.

If Drake is an elim, then Striker is, which means Bard is. If elim!Drake scans a villager and reads them as village, that person then turns around and scans Striker or Drake. They will see that they are evil, and the entire elim team will be found out. Edit: @StrikerEZ I don't know how many times I need to say this before people start listening. We can hard confirm yours and Drake's alignments. We can't even do that by lynching you. The thing is, we can hard clear game-wise. which is immensely valuable as then we can trust any scan results you make, we can trust you with items, etc. Does that make sense?

Statements like this are why I keep elim reading you. I don't think you are an elim. However, every single thing you say rings alarm bells. I'm not going to waste a lynch on someone I think might be an elim. You are not doing anything to convince me you aren't an elim as well. Same with Drake. The two of you are almost exclusively interacting with each other. Also, there IS A CHANCE your alignment will flip incorrectly. Now that Wilson is the only GM left, there will always be a chance everyone's alignment will flip incorrectly. You think you are calling my bluff. Too bad for you, I told everyone early in the cycle I was done with my manipulation, and I was being honest. Edit: I just bolded part of your message: I have already wasted far too much time analysing you and Drake. If you want me to explain why you are drastically overstating how cleared you are, please reread my previous posts.

If Drake doesn't use the Ledger, then we have an elim team of Striker, Bard, Drake. That means they have to use it. I expect elim!Drake would do one of three things: 1. Scan a player with the ledger, and kill that same player with a dagger. Hence needing the protection on said player 2. Scan someone that people would be willing to lynch. If they flip village, claim it was a misflip, if they flip elim, use that as credibility. 3. Not scan anyone, then claim they did. The person that was supposed to be scanned will mention they weren't scanned, and that will confirm one of the two is evil. Then take the same approach as option 2. village Drake scanning a villager will allow us to hard clear Drake and Striker village Drake scanning an elim would put us in the same situation as option 3 of Elim drake scanning a villager. Regardless, the best situation, is to control the game directly and openly at this point. I believe we started with 4 daggers. 2 are accounted for, so that only leaves 3 left... I'm honestly feeling pretty good right now, but depending on how many boxings players have, we may want to be buying stuff from Gaea. A dagger or ledger is really good. Yes, and i would love to get boxings out of the hands of the elims ASAP. Even if that causes problems for us this or next cycle. It will be better in the late game. Excellent point that I don't think you intended to make!!!!: If Elandera did the vote manip, she would have manipulated her own vote to keep her boxings. That narrows down the people it could have been to: Alvron - most likely an elim. Still possibly not. Not guaranteed. Need more analysis Haelbarde Kidpen - inactive or lurking? Shqueeves I completely forgot about those... So yeah, there should be two ledgers in circulation. If the second Ledger doesn't get claimed, I highly encourage anyone with a warrant to target people who have not claimed items, who they suspect, in the hopes of pulling a hidden Ledger. It's also possible an inactive/semi active has it. Hmm. 1. Yes, even if we don't elect a governor, we need to start voting. Honestly, people voting on themselves is bad, as it prevents people from analyzing their votes, but honestly, I'm just getting super paranoid. 2. Why Lum? She won't tell on her teammates. If I was in her place, I would even say I was a villager that misflipped. You can't prove that she would be lying. Would you still lynch her? Instead, why don't we use the Survivor role for fun indead? That's why i want to bring back Elbereth. I was looking forward to playing with her, and right as she was becoming active, she was killed off. She never even got around to RPing. I have considered bringing back Burnt for the same reason, but PMs are closed, and she at least is also playing the LG, where this is El's first game since I joined the community. Where is your vote for Governor then? Also, you and Drake arn't confirmed good. If you are good, then he is too. But only you know that, not the entire game. Correction, who do you think Drake should scan? when he comes online, he will say something about it, but who he scans should, at this point in the game, be decided bby the crowd, not him. Like I will have previously said earlier in this post ( : ) ): I suggest using it on someone you are suspicious of who didn't claim any items

heh, fair. : ) and yeah, I really should have gone to bed long before rollover... But... but... but... xD Also, I just realized, we need to be public about who Drake should scan. The fifth name in our PM is Wilson, so I was trying to imply he should target Fifth with the ledger... But I can't remember if Fifth has actually been opposed to the Striker/Drake team... Elandera is a good alternative one. There are others too I think, but that's off the top of my head. Note: The person who we decide Drake should scan, HAS to be protected with Whiskey, so we NEED the players with Whiskey to claim.

Mhm. Hence why I started by saying, "I think I was advocating for your lynch as you...". You are playing exactly how I believe I would be as an elim. But if I was to post right now, I wouldn't advocate for your lynch at all. I would just research you, and post what I find. What I was explaining, was my 1am thought process, which isn't worth pursuing, as it is a 1am thought process. And as you see, isn't a solid standing on its own in the slightest. Hmm, I thought I explained this in-thread, but maybe I only did in PMs too many times. I wanted to use lynching the constables as a method of catching the elims. That only works if everyone participates in the discussion, and it doesn't happen last minute. I felt like we didn't have time last night to have a significant conversation on which GM to lynch, with solid analysis. Therefore, we shouldn't lynch a GM. The best way I think I previously explained it, was something like: 1. The only kill C1 was Ark, and with no kill C2, I think it unlikely they will have a consistent string of kills. 2. 50% chance for gaining solid information on the lynch for the rest of the game, I think, is a good deal. With analysing Lum, hopefully that chance can go up. 3. based on which GM ends up being evil, as the elims already know which is evil, we can possibly gain info as to who is on their team by watching their analysis. Beyond that, Lum was waffling between whether we should lynch Gaea or Wilson. What I wanted to do was analyse every player and which GMs they voted for, compare that to Lum, and try to figure out the likely elim strategy of whether they were going to bus or protect. Then that gives us something to work off of... I'm just rambling now, but I think I made my point. Also, you have played with elim!Fura several times I think. You should absolutely know elim!Fura would 100% always bus an evil Gaea. I don't care if it would make it more likely I'd get caught. The game is more fun with PMs, and it's where I work best anyways. Getting rid of PMs for an elim!Fura (or village!Fura), is worse than shooting myself in the foot Senator Ninoirim smiled sadly, "Unfortunately, I am hardly certain. If I felt I could prove their innocence, I'd be suggesting them for Governor. However, I believe if they are corrupt, they just put themselves in a precarious situation, and given time, they will expose themselves. Striker scanned Drake as village, meaning they have to be on the same team. This on it's own, I find incredibly suspicious. That suspicion is mitigated by the fact that Bard scanned Striker. Striker and Drake have to be both corrupt or both senators. Bard scanning Striker as village, means that if Striker is corrupt, so is Bard. If Striker is village, that doesn't mean anything about Bard. BUT, it does make Striker less likely to be corrupt, and therefore, Drake less likely. This is ontop of Striker scanning Lum as corrupt and her flipping elim. there was a 20% chance she would flip incorrectly, and that might have happened, but that means there is an 80% chance that the elims decided to bus Lum before they had any reason to. This is also possible though if Lum didn't have time If we control who Drake scans, what should happen, is we scan someone who has been opposing the Drake/Striker team all game. Either the scan marks them as corrupt, and we will see how people react, or the scan will mark them as a villager, in which case, that person scans Bard to close the loop, hard clearing or hard confirming everyone in the loop. Note, if Drake scans someone as corrupt, I will be more suspicious of Drake/Striker/Bard, as scanning someone as corrupt and claiming a misflip if they flip villager, is the only way they can get out of this mess." "Anyways, does that satisfy you as to why I "trust" them, but not really?" EDIT: As for Fifth, I suspect him for the exact same reason I suspect Elandera right now.