Oudeis

Twenty, I'm still lost. Why does Adonalsium prove that the Tranquiline Halls must be off Roshar? Are you simply referring to the fact that we know "off Roshar" is an option, and that this somehow makes it more likely? To re-iterate support for my theory: Vorinism teaches that you must follow one of the Glories of the Almighty, and if you do, you will be rewarded after death by gaining abilities, such as the power to make a field of crops grow instantly. We, the readers, know that if you exemplify an Ideal, you will bond a Spren and gain abilities, such as the power to make a field of crops grow instantly. No dying necessary (though you have to go through some sort of emotional trauma). It is my contention that when the Radiants became a bad thing, the Hierocracy adjusted the doctrine so that rather than gaining the powers... ever, you gain them when you die. Jam tomorrow, like most religions. Never ever jam today. Apart from the fact that you have to die to go there, there's not a ton of in-world evidence supporting the theory that the Tranquiline Halls cannot be a place on Roshar. No one bothers looking because they assume it's either "heaven" or a myth. Further evidence: The legend goes that humans live in harmony in the Tranquiline Halls. Then, everything changed when the Voidbringers attacked. ... Well, we know, from what we know of Adonalsium, that Honor and Cultivation first came to Roshar. We know Odium showed up only thereafter, to bother them and their humans. It's also now believed on Roshar, and at least considered on the Fora, that the Voidbringers are the listeners. I know the common theory is that the Tranquiline Halls represent Yolen and that the banishment is the event where Adonalsium shattered and Honor and Cultivation took a bunch of humans from Yolen to Roshar. Except... that doesn't fit the story. The listeners would have already needed to be in their voidforms (despite Odium having chosen a different planet in the system for his own), leave Roshar for Yolen, attack some humans, the humans then for some reason decide to flee to the Voidbringers own planet, the Voidbringers follow again, and Honor, Cultivation and Odium arrive at the planet at roughly the same time. In fact, Odium would have had to go there first, in order to gather his Voidbringers. There's a lot in this which directly contradicts WoB. The following is known, or at least widely suspected: Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar first. The Voidbringers are of Odium. The Voidbringers are what drove humans from the Tranquiline Halls. Since Honor and Cultivation were on Roshar first, then Odium shows up, it seems to follow that if "Odium shows up" happened at the Tranquiline Halls, they must be a place on Roshar. As I said, just speculation.

@20: Not sure what you're getting at. Why does the existence of Adonalsium mean that this land, know to Rosharans as the Tranquiline Halls, cannot be a physical location on Roshar? And it's not my theory. It's Belinda Carlisle's. @Kal: A plausible scenario. Entirely likely. My own theory, which is an admitted leap, is that Roshar was a planet, touched by Adonalsium. We know from the "secret of the map" that the shape of Roshar is what's known as a "Julia Set"; I believe this means that it was built up by crem, though if someone understands it better, please feel free to explain. So then here's my theory. The Highstorm always existed, creating Roshar via crem deposits. Adonalsium existed, and somehow the listeners (and maybe the Aimians) came into being. Sometime thereafter, the Shattering occurred. Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar, perhaps bringing Humans with them. Then Odium showed up, took over the listeners, and waged war and Desolation. Cultivation was somehow able to use her influence to balance this out, and free the listeners. And then present day. I'm not sure the specific order of some of these events, or what it implies. It is flagrant conjecture, based on hunches and scattered words of brandon. Just throwing it out there to see how it weathers the Highstorm of public opinion.

Okay. It strikes me as a sorta odd way of saying it. We don't talk about clock faces having the "ten fundamental digits" on them. You're probably right, but I'm holding out hope it means something more. In many cultures which have symbols to represent words/concepts (english included) the word for "One" is almost always SIGNIFICANTLY easier than Jezrien's hilt there. i.e. most of them (again, english included) have a single line in some way. I have nothing really to back up my claim. The explanation just doesn't feel satisfying to me. I'm gonna continue to pick at it, while admitting I'm prolly on a wild goose chase.

I always just took that as, aluminum is a malleable metal. EDIT: It reminds me of a scene from an anime called Inuyasha. There's a wolf demon named Kouga, and my friend told me he had the power to control wolves. So the wolves are attacking this fox, and he yells, STOP! ... And then proceeds to walk over and physically drag the wolves off of the fox. Technically, she was right. He was controlling the wolves. I had assumed she meant mystically, but it turns out she simply meant that he would physically grab them and drag them where he wanted them to go. Just so, they say, "the metal molded itself to the Blades" and it's possible they mean in some bizarre, inexplicable mystic way... or they really could just mean "it's a really soft metal and it can be shaped around the Blade easily."

We know any Elantrian can ACTIVATE an Aon drawn by another Elantrian, like Tia. We do not yet know if an Elantrian can activate literally anything the shape of the proper Aon. I would personally be surprised, since the act of drawing it seems important, but technically anything is possible.

Source Could the Parshendi ever become "Of honor"?

Not sure how much it's required that an Elantrian actually draw the individual Aon. From what we see about Raoden trying to draw it in mid-air, it seems like just drawing a piece at a time doesn't count as the same thing.

I concede that a post-Hierocracy notion of what the Heralds may or may not have said is a poor citation. I will return when I've got the time to look up the "seeing the future" WoB, and when my current re-read of the book brings me to the point I recall when Syl says something about it.

The Chasmfiend Elhokar killed in the hunt had green eyes. Does it bother Vorinists that they're killing lighteyed creatures?

May I ask your source on this? Do we know that Renarin's countdown is as simply explained as this? Remember, from The Way of Kings, Chapter 18, apparently the Heralds themselves denounced divination of the future. There have been other indications, from something Syl says once to a WoB about future-sight being "not of honor". I realize the simplest explanation is that it's just a way Renarin uses the Surges, but that doesn't actually make any sense. The way Progression's been used, it doesn't have to do with seeing the future, it's just speeding up an ongoing process. And when we see him carve on the walls, there's no especial light around that I recall. He's also not taking in Stormlight. I'll read the scene again, but I don't think the Highstorm has arrived yet, and besides, we don't have any other examples of people taking Stormlight directly from a storm unless they're out in it, and Eshonai says that the listener bonding trick only works if you're outside. I'm simply suggesting that there's probably more going on here than we realize, and there are certainly enough holes in the theory that we cannot simply say, "this is definitely what is going on here", to the point that we can debunk other theories based on it.

Do you know that this is true? I know Pattern says that her ability is different, that her illusions can change the world, but is there text or WoB stating that this unique ability of hers is the only thing that is called Lightweaving?

Couldn't find this anywhere else, but my apologies if I just wasn't looking hard enough. I don't think the Tranquiline Halls are a different place than Roshar. I think they're an actual spot. I think that between Desolations they're indistinguishable. Vorinism, and the Devotaries, teach about the Tranquiline Halls. They offer Callings and Glories and promise that if you follow them, after death you'll be sent to the Tranquiline Halls to fight. Warriors will become God-like warriors, and will be able to fight with superlative skill. Farmers will be able to grow vast spiritual crops with a wave of their hand. ... Does that last one sound familiar to anyone else? The Progression Surge, for example? I believe that before the Hierocracy, this whole idea was a way to try to farm Knights Radiant. I think they encouraged people to embody the virtues that the spren would reward with a bond (the Glories), and that if you succeeded, you'd become a Radiant, with various powers, not necessarily destructive ones. A Truthwatcher would be able to feed a starving village by growing crops. I think that between the Radiants looking like betrayors, and the hierocracy changing a lot of important factual details, "you'll get these powers once you attract a spren" became "you'll get these powers once you die" and "go to this spot and fight the Voidbringers" became "go to Heaven and fight the Voidbringers". Just a hypothesis. Largely speculation, I freely admit. In such a case, I wonder if the ardents used to have a specific, related purpose? Where they scholars and wise men, there to help people internalize the Glories until they accepted that purpose into their own life and were able to attract a spren? Did they train people in the skills of a Knight, even before the Bond, so that they'd have a leg up once they had powers to complement their training? Or am I just grasping at straws and coincidence?

Yes, the illustration was in Way of Kings. It was just before Chapter 16: Cocoons. I was surprised on this most recent re-read to see that illustration, and to realize it's possible he planted even this seed this long ago.

Do you have WoB that what we are seeing in the physical realm is a direct link from the spiritual, or are you simply guessing?

This topic was brought up in the Way of Kings thread, but I wanted to update it a bit for what we learn in Words of Radiance. In the upper left, you can clearly see the Last Clap happening. Any thoughts on the other illustrations? The weird levitating guy with the swordsman making that... interesting swing at him in the upper right? Below that, sword vs sword and sword versus spear combat? Is the skull simply a representation of the fact that men die in war? Who's the dude with two swords (they look like swords to me, not Shardblades) and why does he have two swords? Just to be more symmetrical? Why is everyone standing in such awkward looking poses?

I've been watching Star Trek: Voyager and thinking about the eventual space-faring future of all the planets, and I've been imagining Be'lanna as an Engineer Radiant with a spren who turns into whatever Shardtool she needs to fix the device she's working on.

If he's heading for the Plains, doesn't that mean he's just going straight to Urithiru? The Unclaimed Hills or the Frostlands or the Eastern Crownlands are the only other ways out from the Warcamps. It seems the only direction that could be called Plains would be the Shattered Plains, and that's the evacuation to Urithiru. Perhaps we're wrong in our assumption that he's escaping? Maybe he just thinks his humiliation is nothing more than another social blunder he can weather and be stronger for? Or is this all expressly dealt with and it's simply been too long since I read the denouement of that book?

I've always wondered at something. Someone bothered to name the Surge of Transformation as Soulcasting, and yet there isn't an order called Soulcasters. Of the two Orders who have that Surge, Shallan's is named Lightweaving after the Illusion Surge, and Jasnah's is named Elsecallers after the Transportation Surge (if we can go by Hoid's complaint at the end, "Did you have to Elsecall all the way out here?") Just something I found odd.

When your 3D printer comes with an aluminum alloy printing plate and for just a moment, you legitimately think to yourself, "Ooo, allomancy proof, nice feature."

I do not believe he had met Kal yet. It's near the start of Part 2. Kal has just promised to try one last time with the Bridgemen, and then started absorbing Stormlight for the first time. Shallan has not been heard from in a while, I think when we last left her she had just been accepted as Jasnah's ward. Part 2 is also when the epigraphs are The Letter. Maybe he was writing it, or giving it to whomever delivered it?

...That was atium he was burning. A God Metal. I'm sure electrum helps somewhat, but we saw that even atium, a godmetal, cannot help you make sense of a literal cloud of shadows. There might be some utility to electrum, but it's unlikely that you'd suddenly be able to process the thousand potential futures at once. Being able to process a few dozen at once would be a huge mental benefit, and even that wouldn't help you greatly. I think I understand what point you're trying to make by your comment about Elend. Remember, however, that he didn't checkmate Marsh, or Ruin. Ruin wanted to kill Elend. The only thing atium helped Elend do was to see that dying was the right thing to do. He didn't have to trick Marsh into anything, or confound Ruin's plan. He didn't have to outmanuever Marsh. He just had to allow Marsh to complete his actions unimpeded. Significantly easier to do than outfighting him. An interesting point, however... duraboost atium let Elend see even farther into the future. If that's an underlying principle, presumably duraboost electrum would do the same, let you see your future even farther in advance. With even more opportunities to branch, this would probably lead to even more electrum shadows...

D'aw, I don't get replies to my tweets... I tweeted an awesome picture with an adorable backstory, too...

Wit barely arrives to the Hunt before the Chasmfiend's unexpected appearance, and then doesn't show up to the pavilion for some hours thereafter. When Elhokar asks him what's up, he says, "I had... things to be about." What was he doing? Was he the reason for the Chasmfiend's unanticipated behavior? Something cosmerically important?

I thought David defined High Epic for us as any Epic with access to one of the Prime Invulnerability powers...