Oudeis

That's supposed to be one of the benefits of Evil Overlorddome, though. Without worrying about popularity or reelections or the laws of God or man, it should be significantly easier to get rid of slums. Right now, if we wanted to tear down an eyesore building and put a new, better one in its place, there would be locals complaining about construction noise, we'd have to find the taxes to pay for it all, the people living there now would protest and complain. Evil Overlords get to tell people: "Exit your building now with whatever you literally cannot live without. You have ten. Nine. Eight..." You're right about Trusted Lieutenant and God, though.

Oh my God man, specifics. Go ahead and find me anything, anywhere, in text or in WoB, that supports what you're saying here. Go ahead and find me something concrete that actually says this, not just your personal ideas, assumptions, speculations, impressions, or inventions. I provided you with several concrete examples from the book, and your reply was, "Well I don't personally believe them, so they're wrong." You say that if I'm right, almost none of Vasher's Commands should have worked. Great then. He Awakens constantly throughout the book. It shouldn't be hard for you to find a concrete example and present it to us all. Go ahead. We'll all wait while you find one. If you're right, it cannot possibly be that hard to support. You seem incredibly confident that the proof is everywhere to be found, so find it. Just one example. Anything at all. You tell me I should reevaluate my position because two, maybe three people who refuse to provide me with any evidence keep telling me that my answers don't "feel" right. Well, I'm not actually on my own here. I've got evidence from the books. And fortunately for me, when Brandon Sanderson casts his vote for "What's real in the books," it's a trump card. I will reevaluate my position the very first time you show me literally anything that isn't your own personal musings which disproves anything I say. You haven't reevaluated your own position despite my constant references to the source material. Please do not lecture me. ...Also, how is there even continuity in that sentence? "I'm not saying we can vote on what's right, but if you're being outvoted, you should accept that you're wrong." You can't even maintain logical consistency from the start of a sentence to its own end. Starting the sentence by saying, "I'm right, not only because others agree with me," does not then give you carte blanche to finish the sentence with, "but I'm right expressly because others agree with me."

Thank goodness truth isn't a democracy, then. If you think you can simply be voted into being factually correct, then there really isn't a point in debating with you. I'm not misinterpreting it. I guess I can try to explain it to you, and hope you don't respond by just telling me I must be wrong. When Vivenna starts practicing, she tells the rope to "grab things." She wants it to grab the tree branch. It grabs the tree branch... and her hand. When she wants Tonk Fah's cloak to go after Denth, she doesn't say "attack things" or "attack him" and mentally think of what she wants. She says, "Attack and grab Denth." She has to be specific. When you tell a rope, "Hold when thrown" you have to then actually throw it and successfully hit the thing you want it to grab. It won't realize what you were aiming at and only grab that thing. These are the facts. This is what is written in the book. If you don't believe me, you are welcome to read the book again. Feel free to find a quote that proves anything I've said wrong, or a time that anyone Commands something vague and the Awakened object does, not what it was told, but what the Awakener meant instead. Your example was that vague Commands, like "Grab Things", result in objects knowing exactly what the Awakener had in mind when he said the word "things" and then only grabbing that thing. When does that happen? Do you have an example, the way I've provided examples? Does this event actually occur in the book, or is it referenced in any WoB?

It seems as though you are both talking from a perspective of, "If I, personally, with the culture and sensibilities of growing up in the 1st World in the 21st Century of Earth were suddenly on Roshar, this is the life I would lead." And I agree with you. I think the reason it's more rare in the books is because they don't grow up with our values and culture, and the choices they make reflect that. EDIT: Grammar.

Do Inquisitors lose their color when they are killed via linchpin removal, a la shardsevered limbs? My personal belief, based on not very much, is that yes, they could. I think that your Breath, being a part of you, has tags for your Identity, which is why other people cannot take your Breath unless you give it away. I think this tag would allow the Breaths to access your metalminds. I talked about this in another thread. Could a blind person Awaken an object to see? Could a Seeker awaken an object capable of sensing Bronzepulses? Are there Commands that allow you to take in the sensory information that your object gathered while Awakened?

We know that removing both eyespikes kills them, too. It seems the whole system is, spiritually speaking, unstable, and the linchpin provides stability. Remove the linchpin and everything falls to pieces instantly. With the linchpin in, removing enough other spikes will work, too. It seems to be that an Inquisitor's spiritweb is simply a mess. Once enough outside support is removed, the whole thing falls to pieces, and you die, just as surely as if the same thing happened to your physical body or your cognitive aspect. Hrm. Interesting thought. Do Inquisitors lose their color when they are killed via linchpin removal, a la shardsevered limbs?

I do not believe that Awakening metal automatically makes it sentient. I'm sure it's been said that metal and stone were difficult but possible to Awaken before Shasharra came up with Nightblood. It was a distinct process that made a new type of BioChromatic entity, not a new ability to Awaken metal things. The Ars Arcanum at the end of Warbreaker certainly seems to suggest it. Susebron, for example, could easily Awaken a metal necklace at this point, it just wouldn't be sentient, it would be a simple Awakened Object.

Not sure how your example would be "triple compounding"... this person would have both allomantic and feruchemical steel, like a normal compounder. The hemalurgy wouldn't add anything to the equation. In fact, due to hemalurgic decay, this person would be a weaker coinshot than a natural compounder. Also, there's no advantage to using the spike as a metalmind, and as this person burns it, spike and the hemalurgy it grants would go away. Gaining a spike that grants allomantic steel, then storing in a separate metalmind and compounding that, would be a slightly better method of compounding than the one you suggest, and would still be inferior to someone who was simply a natural-born compounder of Steel. The only advantage is, you don't have to be lucky enough to be born with the power, you just have to be lucky enough to be born with one of them and kill someone with the other, or have no luck at all and have neither power, then kill two people.

Do we know that Vin felt it because of the spike, or is that a fan theory? Vin says that she feels it, but it's greatly lessened when she puts up her coppercloud. Kelsier says that she's not feeling it, she only thinks she is because she feels like she should be feeling it. My impression was always, "Kelsier DOES feel the Soothing, but it's much weaker. Weak enough that he convinces himself he doesn't feel it, and that helps him reassert his own emotional state." Like the song from The King and I. "The results of this deception are very strange to tell, for when I fool the people I fear, I fool myself as well." Mental fortitude and what Granny Weatherwax would refer to as "headology" have always been the best defenses against emotional allomancy. Sidenote: Odd. Thank you, Windrunner. I didn't know that WoB. I can't recall why I thought this, but I always imagined the Blessing of Stability was the one that protected you from control, possibly because it deals with emotions, which is what emotional allomancy affects. I believe this is the mechanic from the MAG but I certainly hope I didn't base my supposition on that...

...So, just so I'm understanding you perfectly clear here. You think that Vasher, as we see him in the book, at that time, will agree with the sentiment, "the world will be a better place if we simply kill every single person who does anything wrong." He would see this as being "logical and reasonable." You're saying, "trying to reform a city doesn't exist, so just kill everyone in it." I see that my request for specifics once again gets responded to with generalities and vagueness, and then declarations of victory. I will probably, from this point on, stop responding to general, vague statements. Anyone who wants to give me a specific, perhaps I will actually respond. Also, Killer Squirrel, if that's how you think Awakening works, I suggest you read the book again. I... I don't even know how to begin explaining to you how you have the fundamentals of BioChromatic Awakening wrong, and it seems like you won't simply take my word on it anyway.

To walk the middle path here... there's probably a way to store Stormlight in a Nicrosilmind. If it's as simple as "be a soulbearer and also a surgebinder" I will be surprised. Remember when Mr. Sanderson talked of mixing arcana, he said it would typically require jury-rigging. I suspect it will be a process both specific and difficult.

Several reasons. First, because... um, to put it bluntly, I don't think your analogy makes much sense. First of all, house wars only happen once every one or two hundred years. Hostilities simply aren't that high, and not everyone exists in as high and perfect a state of paranoia as the average Sharder. Economics is not like playing chess against one opponent. It's like playing chess, but also go, but also mario kart, but also hopscotch, but also a wrestling match, against a dozen opponents, where each game can affect each other game, losing any one game means you lose them all, and teaming up is absolutely allowed. Trading away atium, then, is like sacrificing your queen in Chess, but gaining a sumo wrestler for wrestling and a jetpack for hop scotch, if the deal is lucrative enough. It's similar to the conundrum expressed in the second and third books. Atium is only valuable because of allomancy. Yet, allomancy uses it up. You can't have your atium and burn it, too. Well, you also can't hoard your atium, and yet get value out of it, too. So. In conclusion, the only reason to hoard atium would be because you feared someone would kill you with Mistborn, which is a rare enough circumstance that the average Lord wouldn't be so worried about that that he'll allow wealth to go stagnant out of fear. And, as any economist knows, you have to speculate to accumulate. Not using your atium has what's called an "opportunity cost," meaning the money you never made that you could have. Most very rich people have a comparably small percent of their worth as liquid assets; most of that money is busy making more money. A Great House can be solvent, it can have excellent contracts and revenues pouring in, but those revenues, if the House is smart, will be going towards yet more endeavors, making bigger contracts, purchasing more things like land or mills or raw materials that will produce value. It will be a not uncommon occurrence for a solvent House with a strong revenue stream to discover a business opportunity which requires investment. Passing up that chance, or even just investing less than you could, just so you can sit on some atium, will provoke the opportunity cost. That's more money which could go towards more land, more guard, buying more atium next time it's available for sale, paying the Cantons to prevent them from authorizing assassinations against you (I want to find that WoB that talks about sanctioned assassinations; there's more than one way to prevent your own assassination at the hands of Mistborn.). This House will be able to tell itself that it never spent any of its atium. It will not, however, be as rich a House as it could otherwise be. The odds of someone caring enough to kill you are comparatively slim in the era of the Final Empire, outside of a House War. The odds of wanting to have more money are more or less constant. Joshua, the WarGames computer, was wrong. Not playing at all is the opposite of a winning move. Being known as a hoarder of atium will more frequently count against you than work for you. And, you'll be sitting on money that could be better used getting you more money. The other Houses, the ones willing to allow the atium to flow as the economy sees fit and profiting thereby, keeping around enough of it for a reasonable level of protection, will be outstripping you rapidly in all the games that aren't chess, and you'll be left in the dust. They'll defeat your entire House, all without burning a gram of atium. Just one man's opinion.

Okay, I'm going to invite you to step back and take a breath. Before you tell me that I only do one thing or that I'm flat-out wrong, you could instead look back over everything I've written and realize that I address this exact issue. Yes, there are evil acts in the world. There are even, in my estimation, a very small percent of people in the world who themselves are simply evil. Irredeemable? I dunno, up for debate. But (to repeat myself, since I've said this already) that evil is a nebulous, non-physical thing that cannot be destroyed with a sword. Let's say that crime in a city is terrible, it's a very bad, even evil thing. How will a sword fix that? Just kill all the criminals? Every petty thief, every desperate man who nabs a purse? The real way to address this problem, to "destroy the evil," is to remove the environmental factors that cause the problem to exist in the first place. Find honest work for people. Provide health care to the sick, injured and elderly. Open a community center. Provide role models for the youths so they know they have the option to grow up as something other than a criminal. How is a sword supposed to do this? A sword cannot fight this sort of "evil," the evil that exists for real in our world. The only kind of evil that a sword is qualified to take care of is a supernatural menace, a monster or a demon, something with a physical presence that can bleed and die yet is inherently and fundamentally evil. Finally, I'm going to ask you once again, next time, before you tell me that I haven't addressed a point and insult me by telling me I'm wrong, please read the whole thread. It's only 2 pages. @Bondranx: You seem to be missing my point. I think if you rest, as you say you're tired, and re-read my initial post, you'll realize that your response doesn't actually address what I was saying. Perhaps we can try again. I'm going to take this time to point out that time after time, I have asked for specifics from people, and time after time I get vagueness and generalities instead. If anyone is so positive that there existed Evil in olden Hallendren that Vasher and Shasharra would want destroyed that falls into the realm of "things a sword can destroy," please tell me right now what it is. EDIT: Failing that, you can explain to me how a sword is supposed to eliminate a vague metaphysical concept. Or, you can explain to me why Vasher, as he exists at the time of the novel, would still consider that "kill literally every person who ever commits an evil act" is a logical or reasonable action to take; Vasher, a man who, at the time of the novels, the same time that he reflects how logical and reasonable the Command is, believes that war is the greatest evil possible. A man who killed the woman he loved, expressly to stop her from releasing more weapons exactly like Nightblood into a war.

Yeah, but now you're only positing the most extreme of situations (bankruptcy, destitution). What about common, everyday economics between powerful, solvent houses with other wealth to draw upon?

...Please explain, because I don't understand. If they didn't want to cause harm, why give it the command, "Destroy [anything]"? And without a clear, obvious definition of what "evil" is, why would it be sure to do something (apparently neither harmful nor chaotic) noticeable?

It isn't quite that simple. Atium wasn't scarce simply because it was expensive to purchase, The Lord Ruler actually only sold a small amount of it at a time. No matter how much gold you brought to him, if you'd already purchased all he would allow you to purchase, he would not sell you any more of it. Therefore, you need to not only have enough funds to buy as much of it as you were allowed to purchase, but if you use it as payment to a rival, that rival will now have their allotment + n, while you will have your allotment - n.

Would a weapon like Nightblood pose any sort of threat to a Shard?

I couldn't think of an ending, but here's my idea. ------------ The fire raged. The room had not been built to house a fireplace, but it had been modified, chiefly with holes knocked in the ceiling. When your God commands that a fire be built, you do not give him excuses. You give him fire. Lightsong sat huddled. The fire was beautiful. The logs had been treated lightly with oils; enough to make it burn bright, but not enough to cause the fire to burn too quickly. Something in the oil released a pleasing aroma into the room. Different logs contained different oils, causing the flames to flare different colors. Within his divine aura, the colors were even more spectacular. Lightsong stared at the colors, eyes unseeing, face a grim mask of panic. His words came out ragged, stuttering, spoken in fear. “The end… is here. The end of the world. It all… ends today…” Llarimar, High Priest to Lightsong, stood at a respectful distance, as far from the blaze as he could justify, in a faint breeze that managed to find its way through the open design of the palace. “I do not believe this to be the case, your Grace.” “I speak prophecy. This is the end. The world dies in ice.” Llarimar surreptitiously wiped sweat out of his eyes with the sleeve of his robe of office. He’d never before thought of his robes as all that bulky and warm before. He was changing his opinion. “You have dreamt something, your Grace? Seen something in the art that you have not shared with us?” Lightsong opened his mouth to say something, but then paused, considering. Calmseer took the duty of the visions seriously. He hadn’t made up his mind yet about it, but for her sake chose to treat the responsibility seriously for now. “Well, no,” he finally said. “But it’s freezing! In all my life, there’s never been a winter this cold!” “Surely your Grace realizes that this is the second winter since you Returned. The last one was unseasonably temperate. This actually isn’t that bad of a winter.” “How can you say that?! It is the end times! I saw Blushweaver walking across the lawn this morning. She was wearing sleeves, Llarimar. Sleeves! Down to her elbows!” Gorgeous tapestries had adorned the walls of this room, and others in the palace of Lightsong the Bold. Works of art, crafted with skill and devotion in equal measure by those who worshipped and served the Hallandren Court of Gods. The walls were bare now. The tapestries had been pressed into service to wrap about the God, twisting upon each other in a clash of colors, valued now more for their thickness than their beauty. “I am forced to concede that you make a compelling argument, your Grace. Nevertheless, I assure you that the winter before you Returned was much colder, and yet the city and world survived. Why, that year, we even saw a brief fall of snow.” “Snow…” Lightsong had Returned almost two years ago. It had been a while since he’d felt this sensation, the sensation of hearing a word and knowing what it meant, while knowing he’d never heard the word before in his life… cold. Wet. White. Falling like… rain? And for some reason it made him think of mountains. “Regardless, I assure you that the world will not end. Winter comes and goes every year. The world is not ending, your Grace.” Lightsong grumbled, but chose not to say anything intelligible. His High Priest was too smart and logical, and would refute what Lightsong knew in his bones. He sat, wrapped in wealth, watching wealth burn before him, reliving the traumatizing moment this morning when he’d stepped outside and the very air itself seemed to attack his lungs with a frigid knife. This couldn’t be natural. He closed his eyes and huddled deeper into his impromptu blankets.

My thanks for finding the quote.

Except, that's never how Awakening worked. You don't tell a rope "Grab when thrown" and then assume it will know which things you WANT it to grab when you throw it. There's no reason that the best scholars in the world would assume that the rules would suddenly be that different in that specific of a way. And second, I'm reasonalby sure that making a sentient object was their express intent. I'll look it up, but wasn't that the whole point? To create a Type IV entity? Something truly sentient, but in a body that had never been human? So, they expected Nightblood to be sentient, and they also wouldn't have thought that individual wielders would be able to influence the intent any more than the holder of a rope Awakened to the command Grab Things gets to decide what they personally define as "things".

This runs afoul of another thought I've had for a while... the Soulcasting Property of the first order is clear air. Syl looks like windspren. The property associated with Elsecallers is oil. Ivory looks like oil. Shallan's property is blood, and her spren travels just under the surface of things. Yet, Edgedancers are associated with crystal, and Truthwatchers with plants. Why then does Ym's spren look like prismatic light, and Windle looks like a growing vine? There is the fact that Windle grows crystals, and the light of Ym's spren grows like a plant, but still, they seem more naturally to be swapped.

Don't forget, it was also the only way to obtain the services of the kandra, yet another interesting and important economic consideration.

I'm sorry, I cannot for the life of me recall which exact moment it was, though I suspect it was at the wedding, but I know Wax was inside a bendalloy bubble once and saw steellines go to every source of metal in the entire room. Since the Vanishers at this point were using normal weapons, not aluminum rounds, I don't know why he didn't just go super-heavy and Push each gun through each Vanisher. I guess cuz then the plot would have been over too quick? I guess the obvious answer is that he can see the lines but he can't Push on them but... that doesn't actually make any sense. For that matter, Pushing on metal that's already outside the bubble should be instant cheating. Imagine a normal Coinshot pushing on a coin that's on a table outside of the bubble. He's added energy and now it's traveling away from him at 100mph. But it doesn't go very far, cuz it's h is different from the time bubble h. So it's only gone about five feet, and he can push on it again. This should add as much energy again as the first push did, so now it's going even faster. Travels a few more feet, and he Pushes AGAIN. Repeat over and over, and you should be able to make the coin go so fast the limiting factor becomes air resistance. This thing would have insane power. And oh god my head this is why I'm trying to stay away from this topic. If someone replies and I don't respond, I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to save my own sanity. Sorry!

I'm personally putting time bubbles in with FTL, as something I'm simply not going to think about until Mr. Sanderson explains it to me. My apologies if this comes across as simply quitting the conversation, but the topic itself gives me more headache than it is worth.

My Way of Kings lists the quality of Skybreakers as Learned and of Truthwatchers as Just, but my Words of Radiance switches those two. Was that intentional, like how the Allomancy chart kept updating throughout the books? Was it meant to reflect the Artist Arcanum learning more as time went on? Or is it a simple typo? (These are both the Nook version. Perhaps it will update if I delete my copy and re-download it?)