Oudeis

I agree. I don't think illusion is something so instinctive that he could cloak a machine he's never seen before when the screen wasn't even facing him, when he had no conscious knowledge that there was any reason to make it lie. If he instinctively uses powers to that level, there are literally dozens of times when he's near an Epic and would automatically use those powers to help himself in some way. Also, Megan would have noticed (and wondered) how the guards didn't see them if she didn't use her power; also, she was Epic jerk just afterwards, an indication that she HAD used her powers. Also they did that on Heroes.

I thought about this. And in short, yes. There's one escape clause. If you're lucky enough that your weakness is something you can carry around, you've got a second chance. Like if it's emeralds, you can just always wear an emerald ring, to turn off your Epicness and thus not be an Epic jerk. Again, not something that would have helped Fortuity or Steelheart. (Although, are Steelheart's always on? If he isn't flying or blasting, or lifting something huge, does his invulnerability only 'count' if there's something it's actually protecting him from?)

I can try to find the quote, but I'm pretty sure at some point someone expressly says that Epics don't automatically know their own weakness. I think it's when David tells his story, and he mentions the part about Steelheart looking to the vault when he's injured. Someone says something about, 'Epics don't always know their own weakness, so he might have been guessing.'

I think we've seen that whether or not it's surface-level to surface-level, using Shadesmar to travel is extraordinarily hazardous.

That we know of.

Interesting questions. Does he simply need ANY part of each Shard (be that Sliver, Splinter, physical body, cognitive aspect, or spiritweb?) I'm not saying he'd necessarily make a "Splinter of Adonalsium" with it, but maybe he could do SOMETHING? It's my belief, though I admit I have no real evidence and I'm completely open to other ideas, that Hoid is trying to reform Adonalsium, or at least rejoin all the Shards into one thing which may not be the same thing as Adonalsium anymore. I've heard the Shattering described as breaking a window. That each Shard is one slice of the "pie" of what used to be Adonalsium. We've seen with Ruin and Preservation that joining those two, specifically, is as easy as a single human taking up both Shards. Is that the case for any two Shards, I wonder? Were Ruin and Preservation originally side-by-side in the "pie" of Adonalsium? Could you join two Shards that didn't share a "border", as it were? If this theory is unclear, I will try to get someone better than me to draw a bitmap or something to illustrate. Back to my original thought: If Hoid is trying to join them all, maybe he doesn't know exactly how to do it, either. Maybe he's trying to take all these bits of the Shards, their bodies and Splinters and what-not, so he can begin experiments to figure out how they interact and what he can do to bring about their joining. Side theory: We actually do have an idea of something Odium fears. He doesn't want to take on any other Intents. What if the way someone finally defeats him is that a Shardholder sacrifices his or her life to literally force their own Shard upon Rayse? We have WoB (does anyone have the quote?) that Shattering Harmony back into Ruin and Preservation isn't quite that easy. Rayse might not be able to divest himself of the second Shard once it's melded to his own, which might be something that distracts him long enough for someone else to stop him. Or maybe Rayse will end up being the one to take on EVERY other Shard, become the new Adonalsium, and live eternally with the regret of how he acted as Odium? LAST SIDE THEORY I PROMISE. Has it already been suggested that Hoid might be the man who originally held the full Adonalsium? EDIT: To add one random thought. What would happen if the bead of lerasium were placed in Ashe's Aon?

Valid. However, we were never promised that every power was useful on its own. Aluminum on its own doesn't, at first glance, seem to have much utility (though we've heard from Sanderson that it might). Duralumin without anything else to burn doesn't help you much. Here's a random thought. What if you're a nicrosil ferring, and someone tries to use brass to Soothe you? Can you start tapping, and drain away the Investiture being used ON you?

So, Conflux knew that he couldn't gift to other Epics. Presumably, so did Steelheart. I can't think of a reason he wouldn't have shared that knowledge with his bodyguards, Nightwielder and Firefight. The Prof told Megan the same lie he told everyone else, that his 'gifting' was really just tech based on study of Epics. Is it likely she figured out the truth? I have two theories. One is this. She realized she couldn't work the tech, and suspected, even if she couldn't prove it, that she was being directly gifted the powers, which is why it failed. Once you suspect, and especially if you yourself are an Epic, one who spends a lot of time with other Epics, would it be long before you deduced the Prof's secret? Other theory. The Prof is unlike any other Epic, ever. In so many ways. Megan didn't seem aware of the fact that Epics will stop acting like d-bags if they refrain from using their powers. She knew the tech was based on Epics, but since she's confident that she knows how Epics act, she'd be wrongly certain that no one there was an Epic. She might just dismiss her concerns by assuming the tech worked on a principle similar to gifting, which is why it didn't work. I guess the crux between the two theories is, how much time did she spend with Conflux? He's a gifter who doesn't directly use his own powers and acts more like a human than an Epic. If she knew about him, she'd probably draw the connection between him and the Prof, and figure it out. Thoughts? Anything else I'm forgetting?

But we have no way of knowing how many Epics are hidden in the other cells. You're right, this cell might be an outlier. It also might be typical. Maybe every cell has several Epics in them. Theoretically, it's even possible this is the only cell with any humans, period. Obviously that's unlikely, but the fact remains that we aren't sure. I guess you're right, it's possible, even likely, that the ratio among ALL the Reckoners is geared more towards humans, but the only facts we have are two Epics out of six members.

The room wasn't making noise, but the guards knew there was "some secret" behind the wall, just not what it was. So the noise they heard was David and Megan, but anything mysterious in that general area is just ascribed to "The Room" which they don't understand. You and I, the readers, know that it's storage for propaganda and wouldn't make noise, but all the guards know is "if you go in there or even wonder what it's about we will kill you." Anything suspicious that might be related to those rooms is ignored, which includes random sounds in the vicinity (unless they can see something in the elevator shafts).

Does this mean that time Shallan entered Shadesmar, she did so at the point on Shadesmar's map that corrolates to Khabranth? Does elevation matter? In Shadesmar, things above sea level are shown as oceans, and oceans are shown as land, with higher mountains at deeper seas. Does this mean if you stand in Roshar at the top of a mountain and enter Shadesmar, you'll appear at the depths of the sea? I know the Palace was at the top of the mountain that shelters Kharbranth. I don't know how far down into the mountain the Palaneum or Jasnah's apartments are. Where they deep enough that Shallan was spared appearing in Shadesmar deep under the sea of glass?

I have a theory. Based on nothing very much more than a hunch. I think all Epics are granted the same baseline level of powers. Maybe some specific abilities are more useful than others (just ask "I can talk to cheese" man) but at sheer power, they were all the same. What's the difference then between High Epics and normal Epics? I'm glad you asked that, voice-in-my-head. The Tensors allow people to use the power of an Epic. David was naturally amazing with them. Tia was alright. Why the difference? It is my belief that there is some human trait, maybe the ability to improvise, maybe cunning, imagination, or just some ephemeral trait. I think all humans have it, to a greater or lesser extent. Usually it doesn't mean anything, since you don't have Epic power. But here's my hypothesis. The High Epics are the ones who a)are granted power by Calamity, b)got prime invulnerability and a useful offensive power, and c)had this je-ne-sais-quality. My only evidence is David. After a week, he was as good with the tensors as Cody, who'd been using them months (years?), and three days after seeing Prof pull a trick, he was replicating it. How? I think David never got an Epic power, but had the inherent quality that would have made him a High Epic. EDIT: Caught a typo.

Answering on my phone so not sure how to quote... Prof could still be Digzone, but I can't think of why, once revealed, someone wouldn't have said that it was the case. It's still possible, and I guess in those few tense moments it might not have come up, but I'm SLIGHTLY less positive than I used to be. I just expected, "Limelight, eh? I guess I like it better than 'Digzone'." I think whoever Digzone is, gifted the power too strongly and that's how they learned that too-strong powers make humans go crazy. So Conflux was always careful to give out little enough power to keep them (mostly) sane. Honestly, a full third of the Epic-haters turning out to be Epic was almost too much for me (even with one being a traitor). It was dangerously close to the stereotype of "All gay-bashers are closeted". And of the pure humans, one is in love with a High Epic, and another is a Faithuful, and who can say how deep Tia's relationship is with Prof but they are close enough that she keeps his secret. Honestly Cody was the only one in the whole group that truly wanted every last Epic dead.

Eeeehhhh..... Not sure I buy that. In a typical Earth household I could see you making this case, but the Royal House of Alethkar? Even if we ignore how differently genders are treated in Alethi culture, she was raised in a manner that made her an independent woman with poor people skills, and he was raised to be personally responsible for... what, millions of people that live in Alethkar? Anyone got a decent estimate? She's barely polite to a man trying to rescue his granddaughter, and he has to balance the needs and wants of ten squabbling highprinces. And as for actions? She spends her life alone and happy with it, researching the past and playing tricks on women who wish to become her wards, while he rides into battle and lies to his closest associates to trick them into believing his paranoid fears. I have to say, generic ideas of "same family means similar raising" aside, the specific seems to debunk that theory. I've heard it proposed that there's a genetic potential, but that only people who have both the potential and act appropriately will achieve the powers. Which does explain some things. Dalinar clearly acts as honorably as Kaladin, but has not attracted an Honorspren. Perhaps he lacks the genetic potential to have his honor translate into powers. Though as someone pointed out, that feels too much like Mistborn. We have a number of confusing facts. Shallan sees the Truthspren, and can innately Soulcast, as well as her trick with Memories. Jasnah can innately Soulcast and enter Shadesmar, but doesn't seem to recognize the Truthspren. Elhokar seems to see the Truthspren despite all of his lies, but as far as we know cannot Soulcast. Shallan's father did Soulcast, but with a fabrial that a proven liar claims was real. Kaladin acts honorably, attracts Sylphrena, who confirms herself that his powers are due to their interaction. He also dreams that he IS the Highstorm (Also, the Herald of the Windrunner order, Jezrien, is called the Stormfather; connection? Coincidence?). Dalinar acts just as honorably, yet cannot see Sylphrena and has attracted no honorspren that we know of, but was somehow posthumously chosen by a dead Honor to receive his hallucina-diary. Szeth-son-son-Vallano has the powers of a Windrunner, a special shardblade that changs his eye-color, and is perhaps more dedicated to his personal code of honor than Kaladin and Dalinar combined, yet we've seen no honorspren and I think there's a WoB quote somewhere (can anyone find?) that he is NOT getting his powers from the typical Nahel Bond. I have yet to see a theory (or, to my shame, come up with one of my own) that fits ALL of these circumstances. Is there a genetic component? Does that mean Shallan's father was always an innate Soulcaster? Than why does Luesh agree to the "send her to steal a Soulcaster" plan, and indicate that he could show them how to use it? Was he simply counting on her failure? Since he had the mark of a Ghostblood and was aware that the fabrial was broken, why didn't the Ghostbloods who threatened Nan Balat seem to be aware that it was broken? If it's not genetic, why can Elhokar see the Truthspren that seem to be tied to Soulcasting, when his Soulcasting sister cannot? (Idle speculation... are they twins? Is it possible the power got split? She got the Soulcasting, he got the spren?) Dalinar is primarily honorable, but certainly at least as honest as Jasnah or Shallan. If he's got the same genetic trait, why hasn't he attracted a Truthspren? What is so special about Shallan? Are they attracted to people who harbor great secrets? Is it possible Truthspren aren't attracted to people who spread truth, so much as they are attracted to people who keep all the truth to themselves? Jasnah would not tell anyone what she learned about the Voidbringers. Shallan keeps secrets from everyone, she even fails to tell her co-conspirators how much she loves her freedom. Elhokar has invented a conspiracy to fake his own murder. I just don't know. So many facts, but it's like fifty pieces of a thousand piece puzzle.

I think I'm with Serendipity on this one. What the rest of you are talking about isn't storing Investiture itself, it's storing your own potential for Investiture. I think that Serendipity's idea more closely fits the wording from the Ars Arcanum. Burning a metal, but instead of getting the immediate effect, you "store" that burn in a nicrosilmind, and then you have a store that cannot be destroyed with aluminum, a backup if you burn your charges with duralumin, or if someone locks you up for a few days and waits for it to pass through your system (which you change for the drawbacks of "can be taken from you" and "possibly vulnerable to ironpull and steelpush". If that's not the case, if you do in fact store your own ability to Coinshot temporarily so as to be a much more powerful Coinshot later, I still don't think it's quite as useful as you might think. Vin proved that really strong ironpulls or steelpushes can easily kill you if you don't have pewter. It wouldn't necessarily give you a subtler touch with brass, just let you Riot more people (or Riot them MUCH harder) and as we've seen, if people figure out they're being manipulated it proves far less effective. It would totally be a very, very useful trait in certain specific circumstances (like taking control of a hemallurgic creature or breaking through a coppercloud for a second) but by the nature of feruchemy, it would make you someone who has to build up these traits over long periods of time in order to be great for a very short time, so basically you become a carry.

Eh, not really. If so, I for one would want to drastically re-vamp my character. Epics as a whole don't play well with others so it's hard to imagine it being anything other than either straight combat to the death, or a bunch of hardcore loners not interacting.

You're right, that weaknesses are inconsistent. My theory is that different powers might have different weaknesses. Like how UV light would turn Nightwielder solid and destroy his creations, but not the dome of darkness. I suspect there was some OTHER weakness that could have punched through the shell, but that's just me. Fearlessness got through Steelheart's invulnerability, but maybe hand-churned butter would protect you from his enegy blasts and he can't fly in the presence of a clock made entirely of crystal.

There were a lot of inconsistencies. Like why people ostensibly more powerful than Steelheart would serve him, or why people like Faultline, who don't even have Prime Invulnerability, would challenge him. My guess was that Steelheart was just a figurehead. I thought he would prove to be some guy the REAL power put on the throne so that everyone would target him, not the real Epic. Since the second book was named Firefight, I had assumed the eminence gris was going to be Firefight. Also, when Megan died, I hadn't pegged it as an invulnerability power; I thought it was some manner of illusion. There was absolutely no way, however, for her to illusion herself out of the firebomb of her body, and it threw me off.

McMill: How specific is this sense? If I'm invisible, can you use it to pinpoint me anyway? Perhaps we could come to some manner of arrangement. At a minimum, I'd like to find some way to pay you to inform me what my own weaknesses actually are, since it seems even Epics don't necessarily know. And the whole "monday perma-death" thing isn't something I want to learn from trial-and-error. You are correct, your lack of Prime Immortality is a compelling drawback to your character. <spoiler>But as we've seen, simply knowing a weakness is about 90% of the work. Even if you, personally, aren't someone Fortuity would bone, once you know his weakness, hire an escort to slip him a roofie. And David guessed Steelheart's weakness about fifteen seconds before figuring out how to use it to kill him, despite not being able to directly utilize it himself.</spoiler> For the other guys on this list, Getaway is... a bit odd, but Plumbline doesn't actually have Prime Immortality, so you needn't respect him to run up and kill him. Minor thought... should we ever fight, it would amuse me to shoot you with a laser and to see, from your perspective, yourself be just not quite fast enough to outrun it since, as you say, you are just under lightspeed.

Please don't take this the wrong way, McMill... ... I will gladly team up with other Epics who want to help me take down this meta-Epic. Heh heh... it's a matter of survival. You understand... EDIT: To make it clear I don't mean it personally.

I wonder if we aren't missing something broader here... What if the point of Lerasium isn't its use in the Metallic Arts? What if all that matters is that he possesses the PHYSICAL BODY OF A GOD? Perhaps it's a part of whatever his secret grand scheme is. For all we know, the allomantic, feruchemical and hemallurgic properties of the God Metals are secondary by-products to their main purpose, which might end up being something huge for the whole cosmere... If someone gathered lerasium, atium, a gemheart (my theory is that the gemhearts are Honor's body), and a bouquet of the Tears of Edgli (again, operating under the assumption that this is Endowment's body), as well as bits of the physical bodies of the other Shards... perhaps there's something very, very interesting and unexpected that could come from that...

1. Primary power: Light manipulation. Firing lasers, energy shields, personal invisiblity (with the limitation mentioned in the book, I need to keep my eyes visible if I wish to see anything). I can also, if I wish, simply project lights in any color. Technically I could project a light "picture" but it would NOT be a convincing illusion (more like, "the guy looked sorta like this only less blobby"). First secondary power: Hovering. Not useful for overland flight as it is slower than a walking pace, but I can lift gently off the ground and float across the room. I am able to lift my body and up to my own body weight in "stuff" though I'm limited by my own body's ability to hold things (so if something heavy were across my neck it wouldn't suddenly be weightless, it would still choke me). Second secondary power:Self-reincarnation ("born from light," on the basis that I have the same secondary as someone similar to my primary power). 2. My light manipulation fails in the presence of a fly trapped in amber. I can't levitate near cats. My self-reincarnation doesn't work on Mondays. 3. That Light Which Reveals The Truth, or Light for short. 4. Messiah complex. I believe Epics are Gods and I am their king. I insist on the worship of those around me. I am FAIRLY magnanimous to the faithful. like Steelheart I try to provide an atmosphere where people may produce in relative safety if only so I can rule over a more prosperous land. Anyone who fails to convince me that he is a true believer is cut down with lasers. Costume: Shaved head, long flowing robes (with the occasional light manipulation to make them look pristine white if I have to). A golden glow constantly shines down on my shoulders like the light of a halo. I always push the UV rays of sunlight away from me so my skin is creepily white and unlined.

I think you may have slightly missed some points. Yes, the Epics were evil because of magic. But were many of the humans better? When Prof is free of his Epic evil, he's still a psychopath. David's lived his life feeling nothing but anger and rage. Epic innate evil is one feature of this book, but pure humans aren't put in a rosy light besides that. Even compared to the augmented evil of the Epics, Sanderson showed the humans to be pretty darn dark. I totally called Prof being an Epic, pretty early on, I forget where specificially but it was something to do with how he got the tensors. I assumed his story about "copying an Epic's powers" meant the tech was based off of him, then once I learned gifters were a thing I realized the tech was a smoke-screen, and that he was a gifter. When he told David to use the tensor even though it was broken I actually chortled. I actually assumed he was Digzone. Absolutely pegged Megan as an illusionist. Absolutely kicking myself for not taking the ONE EXTRA STEP of realizing she was THE illusionist, Firefight. When she died I was unsure if she'd perma-death or not until I recalled the list of prime immortalities and how one was self-reincarnation. My guess for Steelheart's weakness was crossfire, so imagine my disappointment when David guessed it in the bank and I realized there was no way it'd work. My second guess was that he could only be harmed in the presence of recently-broken steel. My longshot thought was that somehow he'd gotten the cut at the same time as the shot, but that it wasn't actually the bullet (shrapnel or something from the rocket launch), hence a red herring. I don't think dust is Megan's weakness. There was plenty of dust in the air in the elevator shaft, and she still used her powers fine. Her anger afterwards was all because she'd used her powers, and that made her more Epic bitchy. Smoke was the weakness of Refractionary, a similarly-powered Epic, and it's been established that Epics with similar powers occasionally exhibit similar weaknesses, but I'm still saying no on dust.

My interpretation of "doesn't fear you" is... a pretty harshly demanding state. I think it requires an utter, soul-deep belief that you are in no harm. This person could hold a knife to your throat (and if you're an Epic, be equipped with your weakness) and you wouldn't worry one bit. Even for the "I have nothing left to live for" fearless example from above, even though you don't fear death itself, you are still aware of the fact that he could, and given the opportunity would, kill you. I guess that what I'm saying is, I think David phrased it as "one who doesn't fear you," but it's really the same statement said the other way around, "one who trusts you." But that's just my two cents.

Self-reincarnation is definitely one of the trickiest to get around. Unless she's vulnerable to perma-death sometime shortly after (or during?) her reincarnation, I think you'd really have to kill her while she suffered from her weakness if you wanted to get rid of her for good. Absolutely no idea right now what that might be.