Oudeis

That makes logical sense to someone like you or me. I just don't see it as what Szeth would do, from what we've seen. He is currently insanely overconfident, and also pleading for his own death. If he is ordered to kill Dalinar, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that he would keep trying until he's cut to pieces, thereby fulfilling his oath AND his personal deepest desire. I know that you can warp the words around to make retreat make sense, I just don't see Szeth as being that invested in trying to find a reason to avoid this fatal battle.

I concur. Having never seen Feruchemical nicrosil and having such a vague definition, I could start claiming that Feruchemical nicrosil lets you store cats, and you might be hard-pressed to actually prove me wrong. In short, it's fine to speculate, but I don't think anyone without inside information can do so seriously.

It's cool, I read the first few words, realized it was about WoR, and skipped before I read anything.

::fingers in ears:: LA LA LA NO SPOILER FOR WoR KTHNXBAI! Waiting for the full book to come out before I read select chapters.

My theory runs like this: Before they ever made the treaty, what they wanted was "a broken treaty with Alethkar". They wanted to summon the Alethi armies to the Shattered Plains, for whatever reason. We haven't seen it yet. The Alethi claim they are winning, but that's based entirely on "this is how many warriors we assume they have" and "this is how many warriors we believe we've killed". I think throughout the book the Alethi have proven themselves time and again to be less than objective in measurements, especially when it comes to competitions. Until we hear from an unbiased source or the Parshendi, I don't think they're losing as badly as the Alethi assume they are. So. Let's say they have access to this voidsphere. Maybe it'd be bad if the Alethi got a ton of them, but if you had Scrooge McDuck's vault full of gold coins and used one of them to set a trap, how much effort would you put into getting that coin back? Would it be worth a single life to reclaim one thing your opponent doesn't know how to use and can't get more of? The Parshendi threw Szeth's oathstone away. They fled as he attacked Gavilar and didn't wait around for their assassin. Even if they suspected it'd be as easy as "he had the stone on him and offered it to his killer" it would still have required them to stick around in order to get the voidsphere back from Szeth. So. My theory, somewhat simplified: The Parshendi gave Gavilar a single voidsphere which they had to spare to tempt him into a treaty, so they could break it and draw the Alethi army to the Shattered Plains. The timing is just off for their motives to be anything else. They waited until the treaty was signed and then instantly broke it. They wanted the situation of "we have a broken treaty". You raise an excellent point, and I truthfully do not have a good answer. The best I can come up with: Gavilar is as confused as we all are about why the Parshendi would want him dead. Regardless, he still fears a Ghostblood will get to his body first, and he'd rather the voidsphere go back to the Parshendi than that the Ghostbloods get it. Whatever Gavilar learned of the voidsphere, it was enough to make him trust his own murderers over the Ghostbloods. ... Wow. I just now realized I have not been taking the Ghostbloods seriously enough. "You, man-who-just-killed-me. I trust you more than I trust those guys."

Interesting but... what is his duty? Kill Dalinar. Unless I'm mistaken, Taravigan (prolly spelt that wrong, too tired to look it up) didn't qualify that. He didn't say "kill Dalinar if you can" or "try to kill Dalinar and give up and come back if you'll clearly fail". I think in this case, unless King T gave him some order we haven't seen, his death wish and his duty are in alignment.

David never could. It's possible that Steelheart has some hitherto unknown Epic power of "I know when I'm in an illusion" or possibly since he's more familiar with illusionists than David is he might just have insight, but the fact remains David was in an illusion at least once and near them a few other times without realizing it.

Sorry, Gloom... who/what are you replying to here?

Good point. There is a ton we don't know, so I'm not willing to throw the idea out just yet, but that is a flaw. Perhaps they knew that Gavilar had learned of the voidspheres, but didn't realize he actually had one. Perhaps they don't care if he's got the one, they just want to protect the larger portion (like on Scadrial, it wouldn't necessarily have mattered if Ruin had gotten a bead or two of atium, they just needed to keep away the larger mass of it). Or maybe the two are unrelated. The Parshendi broke the treaty within hours of signing it. This whole thing could have been their plan. It FEELS like things are going how the Parshendi want them to. For some reason, they want this combined war against the chasmfiends. Mr. Sanderson has said that there will be ecological impacts from the fact that no chasmfiend has pupated in the past five years. Maybe that's what they want. So they meet Gavilar, give him one voidsphere to tempt him into a treaty, expressly so they can murder him and break it, thereby drawing the Alethi army to the Shattered Plains, to gain their assistance in slaying the chasmfiends. I don't know if that was their specific purpose, but the timeline was too quick. I definitely believe that the Parshendi wanted the treaty for the sole purpose of breaking it and manipulating Alethkar. I also think that the voidsphere is what Gavilar wanted favored trading status about. Speculation, admittedly.

You need to find a sniper who hates his own mother, get an illusionist to wrap Steelheart up in the illusion of his mother, and let nature take its course. The sniper has no fear in his soul of his mother, but would still try to kill her.

Not necessarily. You're assuming that every single Shardblade we've seen anyone bear is nothing more than that. I think you're right, though I'm not as certain as you are. You and Shardlet seem utterly convinced tha Radiantblades and modern Shardblades absolutely have to be the same thing. I think that's likely, but far from a foregone conclusion. We've seen a lot of Shardblades get used in the modern era. Some of them for only short periods of time. I think it would be very Sanderson-y if one of those blades, one we assume was nothing more interesting than just a Shardblade, turned out to be something special. One more theory that's just occurred to me. What if, after thousands of years, the Blades are the same ones, but they've changed? Maybe something happened to them when Honor Splintered. Maybe something changed by being handled by non-Radiants for thousands of years. Maybe the Hierocracy, or its fall, included a global event that changed Shardblades (or maybe the event that changed them was lost to history during the Hierocracy). So physically, the Shardblades wielded today are the same ones from the past, but like radioactive decay they have transformed into something fundamentally different.

I just always assumed that he got it from the Parshendi. We know he made a huge deal about trading rights with the Parshendi, which everyone assumed was about Shards, but we've seen throughout the book that no one with a Shard would ever trade it away except for the most dire of circumstances. It must've been something else, and now here's this mysterious object that looks Void-ish he somehow has. Also, he suspected Szeth was from the Ghostbloods, which is a group we know are after Jasnah to stop her research into Voidbringers, who are apparently somehow related to the parshmen and Parshendi. I know it's specious and it's not supported enough that I'll even call it a theory, it's just what I assume to be the case for now.

I still say it's stricter than that. it can't be just "I don't fear you right at this moment," it has to be, "If you were holding a knife to my throat (and if I were an Epic, you were applying my weakness) I would not for one second fear for my life." No fear. Not existential. Not, if this doesn't work I'm toast. By the very act of taking precautions like being a sniper or knowing that you're a special team called in to do what others can't, you're showing that under other circumstances you believe he would, and could, kill you. That's not a lot of fear, but it's enough for Steelheart to be immune to you.

Current plan: silver make-up and a white wig, and go as an Elantrian. What does an Elantrian wear? Should I just wear the white robes of a sacrifice? Props: A clear plastic plane upon which I will draw an Aon, and somehow convince it to hang in the air as I pretend to draw it. Also, draw another Aon on another piece of plastic, put it inside a clear balloon (perhaps some form of light), inflate the balloon, hang the whole thing from a stick with fishing line, have my friend stand off to the side and dangle it in the air. Boom. Seon.

Breath, stormlight, and pewter aren't bodies of shards; they are tools of the craft. It's not analogous to soulstone, it'd be analogous to... I dunno. Having already been Forged, I suppose. Burning pewter is like when Shai used the Mark to turn herself into Shaizan. At the start of Mistborn, no one realized how special or importan atium was. Most people considered it the 'best' metal but it wasn't perfect for every circumstance. It couldn't let you hear a conversation in the other room or calm down someone, or just pick up a rock that fell on your ally. It had economic power but that was mostly due to the Lord Ruler's edicts. It wasn't until the third book that we realized exactly how important atium is to Ruin and the cosmere as a whole. Just because, right now, Mr. Sanderson hasn't yet told us "soulstone breaks all these crazy rules" doesn't mean it doesn't. Kelsier knew a ton about atium, and he still assumed it was nothing more interesting than gold's pair. Let me say this again. This is a theory. I'm not trying to convince anyone that this is proven fact. I do think there's compelling evidence that this is a seed Mr. Sanderson has planted. I am absolutely open to anyone showing me evidence that this is clearly not true (and I know you did present some, I still think I have answered for those), but I am not going to listen to anyone saying "well it hasn't been flat-out expressed in the books yet so it's wrong." Also, how do you know that soulstone doesn't break the laws of plausibility? The mural in Shai's room, the emperor's Soul itself, we get told over and over how implausible they are, and yet they take. Wood may be more plentiful and crystal may technically be easier to carve. But it's been hinted, though never said, that all the Forgeries Shai makes, the ones that should never have worked, do work. With soulstone. I know they have other, in-story reasons. Go ahead and tell me Mr. Sanderson has never told us something in-story that later proved to be nothing more than "what the characters erroneously believe."

Heh, thanks, I should have said. I am male. Steelheart: (Edna voice from The Incredibles) NO CAPES. No but really, it's something to keep in mind. He might be more likely to reward something that requires a bit more effort. Scribbler: Mayhaps. Maybe I can think of some way to employ Rithmatics... carry around a Line of Vigor on a piece of paper, pretend to "draw" it, and find some way to have it zip across the floor away from me? Awakener: Interesting. So... wear a cloak with a hood and patched cuts, tassels at wrist and feet (wrapped tightly around myself), and maybe a scabbard to look like Nightblood? A rope belt? Anything else I'm missing, and does anyone have ideas for how I could fake some Awakening? I could also just spray-paint some garden wire metallic blue, glue coins to the end, build the whole thing into a chest-piece, and pretend to be a coinshot... it might be tricky to make the lines really GLOW blue. I might be going with a friend, perhaps I can task him with holding a flashlight. EDIT: Because I forgot to address the Szeth idea. But but but... I like my hair...

All right... I thought I was clear on this point in the OP, and I've expressly said it since, so I'm going to say it again here. I am completely aware that soulstone is NOT required for Forgery. I never said it was and I did say it wasn't. Atium isn't required for hemallurgy, though it helps a great deal. Yes, I know you can't be mistborn without lerasium, but even before anyone had lerasium there were still mistings, so lerasium is helpful for allomancy, but not required. Soulstone. Not required for Forgery. Still very helpful. Pattern matched. As for your quote, I know it's tenuous. Like I said, this isn't proof, but it's an idea. I also do not see anything he said that makes it "certainly not Devotion." The Alethi refer to Honor as "the Almighty". All Mr. Sanderson said was, "there's a connection between her people and a God Beyond that includes the stones from the sky." If "God Beyond" is her people's word for Devotion, which isn't a stretch, the connection is there. Again, I'm not saying this is totally proven true. But I haven't heard anyone say anything that makes it impossible, or even unlikely.

Kay. I'll start work on a costume to wear (only way I can think of to be strongly sure he'll hand me a unique code). Mistborn has been done to death... any suggestions?

Right, and feruchemy, hemallurgy, and allomancy can be done with just normal steel. Just like forgery can be done on a bar of soap if you need to. But they're all done better if you use atium or lerasium, the god-metals. Apart from the lerasium jumpstart needed to spark off Mistborns (and there were still mistings, even before anyone ever burned lerasium) the god-metals improve the Metallic Arts but are not required. I suggest to you that many of the systems of investiture on Sel are improved with the addition of soulstone, but do not require it.

Ooooh... so you're saying, if I can get one code, I'll both help myself by being able to read everything, and I'll help everyone by being one more drop in the "what else do we get" bucket. Oh that's cool!

Does it suggest how many more things are available to be gotten? As in, will there be a point where we've hunted every last steel? Or as you find more will there just always be more material? Also... new entry every 50 unique codes... so I'll have to collect 200 codes before I can read Sixth of the Dusk?

Cool. Where do we know this from?

Do you have links to things that support either of these?

Her reaction to the Truthspren confused me. In her first sentence, she implied she didn't know them, but before Shallan could get more than a few words out, she was giving Shallan the downlow on them. I'm not totally convinced that this is proof that she's a different order. Also, do we have it confirmed that this is how Surges work? I was under the impression that it's possible that your "access to two surges" grants you one unique powerset. So, for example, Kaladin's Three Lashings is what you get when you mix Gravity with Atmopsheric Pressure. The Order to one side would mix Atmospheric Pressure with the Surge of, I dunno, Disco, and get one unique powerset based on the combination. By this theory, Soulcasting would be one powerset that you get when you mix whichever two Surges that order has access to. I've seen those two theories postulated. Do we know which, if either, of them are correct?

I searched but haven't found anyone else who has mentioned this, so I'm gonna throw this out there, see what anyone says. In short: I think that Soulstone is the physical body of Devotion. Let me try to collect my scattered thoughts... First, I'm gonna start by saying that I'm aware that most of what I say here is speculation. With the exception of Forgery, we know very little about ANY of the systems of Investiture on Sel. I've read a quote from Mr. Sanderson saying that on Sel, there will be a system of Investiture for Devotion, one for Dominion, and that another would have come into existence as a balance between the two (much like Preservation's allomancy, Ruin's hemalurgy, and the balancing feruchemy that came up between them). I will try to find this quote and add it. UPDATE: I am mistaken, all arcana on Sel are manifestations of the mixed power of Devotion and Dominion. Known types of Investiture on Sel: AonDor Forgery/Soulforgery/Fleshforgery? Bloodsealing ChayShan Dhakor (not sure we have an official name for that yet). We know AonDor is less powerful that farther you get from Arelon. We know that the sigils that access the Dor are physical representations of the land. We know that there's a symbol that must be carved onto every soulstamp that Shai believes looks like MaiPon. We know that Dhakor bones look to Raoden to be similar to ancient Fjordell writing. We know that ChayShan is powerful enough even very far from Jindo to punch through the armor of a Dhakor monk, though granted we have no way of knowing the relative power levels/skill of either combatant. So. Here is my theory. I think that Devotion's Investiture works differently depending on where in the world you are. I think that every known form of Investiture that requires you to form shapes that look like countries in order to draw on "the Dor" is from Devotion. So AonDor, all the Forgeries, and Bloodsealing (whether or not those two are related) are her Investiture (and yes, I know that this is unconfirmed.) I think soulstone is Devotion's physical body. I had thought it earlier in the book, but then I got to this line from chapter "Day Ninety-Eight" What if that is soulstone? I know we don't have a hard date on when Aona and Skai died, but (and I can get into this if you want) I think it was a very longtime ago. Like "Ancestors" long time. And we know that soulstone was basically made to be carved. I know that we know how AonDor currently works, but someone made Elantris, and it seems that people don't turn into Elantrians if the giant Rao isn't tuned up properly. So perhaps in the past, it worked differently in a manner that required non-Elantrians to carve shapes. Dhakor also seems to be new, or else why wouldn't it have been used in the war they lost all those years ago? Perhaps an old form of that could be carved into soulstone, rather than bone. Basically, we know that carvable rocks that fell from the sky a long, long time ago were considered the body of a god, and their properties make them perfect for at least one form of Investiture which has similarities to others. (I've got specific theories on ancient forms of AonDor and Dhakor and why specifically they had to adapt, but that's possibly for another day). I think that Devotion's physical body is soulstone.