Sabrina Stormshard

I suppose left-side cultivation, right-side honor might work?

There was some speculation in another post that Brightcallers, if they are an order, could manipulate sunlight which to me would fit with with Order 3, fire, light ,heat

HAHAHA Love it!

I agree, I've changed it to oil compared to Isomere's original

Question: Is one of the surges will be related to temporal/time manipulating abilities? EDIT: re: one of the questions, we've seen before that diptyques like sh, ch count as one letter in alethi so How is Valhav a palindrome on Roshar? If so, how does that work? Is the h silent or does this combination represent a sound we don't have in English?valhav = v-a-lh-a-v

My question: Do you think one of the surges will be related to temporal/time manipulating abilities?

I've attempted to amend the table; have a look: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4190-theory-the-tanavallah-an-adaptation-of-isomeres-table/

Please note: this theory is currently REDACTED due to steelhunt. Once certain info comes into the public domain I will unredact. If you have a steelhunt code already and want to discuss redacted areas privately, I am very happy to do so This is mostly building on Isomere's theory: The Tanavallah: a Surgebinders Guide to Harmonics: {http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3301-theory-the-tanavallah-a-surgebinders-guide-to-harmonics } Please note a lot of this is my speculation, and getting thoughts down, please do add comments/refutations. SURGEBINDING Ok so here is the adaptation on the table at the back of WoK that Isomere put together: (LINK) Here is Isomere's original version: (LINK) And here is my adaptation. Working heavily off the table found on the Coppermind about the Ten Essences: (LINK) Blanks are currently unguessed. Where it says 'see note' this is due to redaction IMAGE PARTLY REDACTED EDIT: Thanks to a number of fantastic comments, I've had a good rethink and have changed the table from the one here {LINK} to the one here (also shown below): {LINK} The table has been developed thanks to discussion and analysis of Brandon's readings. The large circles represent the Order of the Knights Radiants where the small represent the Surges. The numbers on the picture correspond to the table (PARTLY REDACTED) below also provided for reference {LINK}: Main Changes and notes: General: Which parts are physical/cognitive Honor/Cultivation are up for debate, although I'm leaning towards top Honor, bottom Cultivation. Number 1: We know that the top right 2 surges (for 1) are Gravity and Pressure but not which way round (corresponding to the Windrunners. {LINK} I think Gravity and Pressure are correctly assigned as pressure works better with Smoke than gravity. Number 2: Smoke & pressure > Dust. Seems to make sense. WoB is that Dustbringers ARE an order of the radiants. [ Signing 2 at about 27 mnutes ; thanks to Miyabi for pointing out]. The dustbringers are theorised to COMBUST items which also suggests heat, whereas light is used elsewhere in the table. {LINK} Number 3: Brightcallers are a theorised potential Order. This is the only place I can see them. It may be this order that can 'control the sunlight' by manipulating heat? Number 4: Redacted Number 5: Growth, Light, plants. Number 6: Working on the assumption this is where Shallan fits in. (Shalash/Shallan ties are well documented (creativity etc) importance of Blood, etc). Memory may be an extrapolation of light and sight abilities, and we know about the soulcasting. We know that lightweaving makes an appearance in SA {www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='lightweaving'} . WeiryWriter noted the following: "Lightweaver was a possible title for Shallan's book and there was a uncited quote ...that Shallan would have three apprenticeships, Jasnah, someone, and Hoid who we know uses lightweaving." So it looks light Lighweavers fits well here, and means Light is attached to 5 and 6, which makes sense. Complementing quotes can be found by searching for 'lightweaver' here: {LINK} Number 7: Jashan hints at the end of WoK that she has a different combination of surges than Shallan, and given they both share the ability to Soulcast it makes sense that Jasnah is here. The reason I've put her here and NOT 5 is that Jasnah is 'bad with organics' i.e. life forms, plants. Seems odd she would fit in 5. That hints that transportation is between 7 and 8. Number 9: We have been told travel is one of the surges{www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='surges'} and Miyabi has stated Stonewards can travel, although I haven't seen the quote, her statement is here: {LINK}. It is certainly speculated due to the Stoneward suddenly appearing in Dalinar's vision. We know that regrowth was combined in a fabrial using topaz and helidor and we have seen the order of stonewards use such a fabrial. This originally led me to suspect growth was between orders 9 and 10 however Moogle pointed out the gemstones could be there to Target bone and flesh, which makes more sense in the overall structure. Also, if growth was a Stoneward power they would not need to use a fabrial. {LINK} Number 10: We have confirmation that Order 10 is the Skybreakers. As Gravity manipulation would give the ability to fly, Travel is probably not a Skybreaker Surge and so must be between 8 and 9. { LINK - Search for Glyphs } Double eye: I've been thinking about the double-eye symbolism and it would make sense if the two pupils represented the merging of Honor and Cultivation. The double pupil (see image below correspond to the Flesh and Plants orders (5 and 10). This would suggest that order 10 (men) is part of Honor and order 5 (Plants) is part of Cultivation. Also, note the links between orders (big circles). 5 and 10 are linked. 4 and 6 are linked to 5 (Cultivation) 1 and 9 are linked to 10 (Honor) 1 and 4 and 9 and 6 are linked; suggesting the counterpoints for Honor and Cultivation respectively? 2,3,7, and 8 are linked to the central point of the diagram, i.e. between 5 and 10, an equal mix of Honor and Cultivation. I am coming to the view that the top half is more Honor, and the bottom half more Cultivation. Cultivation: Plants, Blood, Crystal {Loving, Learned, Creative, Healing, Giving, Honest} Honor: Men, Air, Stone {Protecting, Dependable, Pious, Leading, Resourceful, Guiding} Equal mix: Metal, Oil, Smoke, Fire {Just, Confident, Brave, Obedient, Wise, Careful, Resolute, Builder} VOIDBINDING I've gone through the Theoryland archives and dug out the items from the following articles that I think are interesting to this discussion as they pertain to Voidbinding; (Keywords: Surges, surgebinding, voidbinding, shardblades.) Also included are some WoK Quotes We have also seen, in addition to the tables above, the table dubbed the ‘table of dissonance’: ( LINK ) It follows a similar layout to the double-eye of the Radiants and each of the surges (or voids, as I shall call them) is represented as a de-symmetrised version of the surge on the normal table; indicating, it seems, some sort of twisting of the surge. Voidbinding is mentioned in WoK as having to do with trying to predict the future – that would suggest some manipulation of time, which is why I believe time is one of the voids. We also know that there are 3 main over-arching magic systems: Surgebinding, voidbindings, and a third which is related to fabrials: Q:You have told us there are more than 30 magical systems on Roshar. I am assuming there are 10 surgebindings and 10 voidbindings. Do the next 10 belong to another such classification? If yes, can you give us the name for it. A: Fabrials are part of it. Now, we know Szeth has similar abilities to Kaladin, a potential Windrunner, however: Q:Does SzethsonsonVallano's Surgebinding require HonorSpren like Kaladin's? A: No, it does not. (Hm....) Gold star to you. Q:Is there a link with the fact that we know that Szeth is truthless and the fact that Honorspren are what cause Surgebinding? Is there a connection there? A:There may be. I won't say. That's a RAFO. Szeth isn't actually in an order of Knights Radiant. Something different is happening with Szeth that people have already begun to guess. And Kaladin isn't yet a Knight Radiant, but the powers he uses are those of the Windrunners, one of the orders of the Knights Radiant. Szeth is using the same power set. The symbol stamped into the front of the first hardcover represents the Windrunners because of Kaladin's awakening as a Windrunner. Also because of Szeth, but mostly because of Kaladin We know that glyphs can be written in many pictoral forms. In the surge table, they’re written to style as a sword (WoB), in the table of dissonance as (speculated) an animal, but the last quote suggests they represent the same overall glyph. Additionally, we know that Szeth is using the same power set but is not using Radiant-powers. And, we know that there are 3 sets of 10 powers; surges, voids and something relating to fabrials. I hypothesise that voidbinding voids correspond to surgebinding surges, except for the manner in which one obtains these powers (spren-bond versus other means, possibly relating to Szeth’s oathstone). Therefore, if predicting the future is a voidbind (as is alluded to in WoK), some manipulation of time is also a surge. There may also be Void orders - Ghostbloods maybe? There’s also an interesting extrapolation to do with Shardblades. Syl has stated that she prefers Dalinar once he gave up ‘that thing he carried’ (his shardblade) Also, we know that the Radiants abandoned their blades and Taravangian says to Szeth: “that monstrosity of a shardblade you carry” Q: Was Syl’s appearance and behavior caused by Kaladin giving up his shardblade? A: It was a major fundamental factor in what happened between them. So it seems that honorspren/ radiant-binding spren have some aversion to shardblades for some reason; this may be why Szeth does not surgebind, but voidbinds? We also know that he is not allowed to give up his blade which ties in to this theory. This theory is slightly complicated by the fact that we are told: Q: Is there a functional/structural difference between modern-day Shardplate and the stuff the Radiants wore? Did the Radiants have to use infused gems to keep their suits going or could they just 'breathe in' Stormlight and feed the suit off of their 'inhaled' reserves? A: Something is different. You will find out what. Q:Is there any ramifications to the holder of a shard blade for using a blade in a manner that it wasn't intended? A:Depends on the type of Shardblade. (You have seen three different kinds in TWoK.) For most, no. For some, most certainly. So we cannot be sure if this is Syl’s aversion to all shardblades or just one type. However, 3 types of shardblade could correspond to the 3 types of magic; Honorspren might only like honorblades, regular shardblades might be part of the fabrial set and Szeth’s ‘monstrosity’ might be some kind of voidblade. Also, on the point of voidbinding, we know from Navani’s notebook translation { Link to wiki, search for Navanis Notebook } that fabrials are powered by trapped spren (you could say, a spren Bonded to a gemstone). Surgebinding required bonding to spren, but what about voidbinding? Szeth is the most likely potential voidbinder we have seen, and the only similar item I can think of is his oathstone. Some kind of oath, perhaps, secured in an item is necessary to gain voidbinding powers? Q: With Szeth, the Assassin in White, is he tied to the [Oath]stone or is it a genetic thing or is it kind of like a spren? A: RAFO Q:What did Szeth do to become a Truthless, and is there anything else involved in being a Truthless that we haven't seen?" A: Szeth was perceived as betraying his people in a fundamental way, and you will learn more about that when his book comes along. Q:Is Szeth bound to a spren? A: No. He's not. Q: Was Vallano, Szeth's grandfather, also a Truthless? And if not, what did he do to disgrace the Shin? A: No, Vallano was not Truthless. Szeth was a very respected member of his society, once. There are clues to what happened in his story, but you won't hear it in full until he gets his book. (Which will include his flashbacks.) Q: Is Kaladin naturally stronger than Szeth in using Stormlight? Szeth can only hold onto it for a few minutes, but Kaladin has been shown to hold onto it for much longer. Or does it have to do with Kaladin having a spren? A: Ah, so you all noticed that, did you. Glad you did. I have like a dozen things I nearly posted here, but all of them spoil a scene in Words of Radiance. So I'll just zip it for now. Voidbinding and Surgebindings probably have their own set of limitations. Surgebindings may be more powerful but perhaps voidbing can be done to anyone, via an oath-bond, or perhaps it has more far-reaching applications. Apologies for the ramblings!

It looks like this forum has a ton of spambot members with names like "Ay0JCgtrc7 " online whenever I log in; is this an issue?

I re-routed it to a non hotmail email which seems to work now

Awesome

Very interesting idea, I like it!

Is it canon that you need to kill to be able to see Cryptics?

Buy - quicker healing 'member? Herald viewpoint in one of the interludes in WoR

Great! Am going to ask for them!

booo oh well I'm going to ask for some of the others. Dragons! who'd have thought it!

A Dragon!!!! I gotta ask for a copy of some of the unpublished stuff!!

I agree, metalmind makes way more sense than him having ingested it, given the letter.

Sell , I think she's one of the breeding hostages I think : TWoK Spoiler:

Thankies For some reason I'm not getting emails when posts I reply to get replies :/

WOW, some fantastic qs asked here and some great answers EDIT: The interviewer made it sound like they had a copy of White Sand: how? I'd give my left pinkie to see it!!

I'd very much like to see the excerpt if anyone is willing to pm me...... scap that, a tar valon dot net friend of mine lemme see; I'm not allowed to share it though, apols

I've been lurking a good long while and decided to introuce myself; huge Cosmere fan, fantasy fan, WoT fan... you get the picture. Also on tarvalon.net as Sabriane Diamodred real name is Sabrina, loving the theories, hoping to get more involved!

Sell, I think there'll be a Kaladin-Amaram confrontation in WoR

Can't wait for the Jasnah POV