mdross81

Interesting theorizing here. Also, according to the Coppermind, "the skaze are described as dark, seeming to suck in the light around them, with indistinct edges that blend into the air." If that doesn't sound like a voidish spren, I don't know what does. I guess it's officially time for me to reread Elantris.

This is kind of where my thoughts have been going as well. Can't you just see Ulim being involved with this: On a more general note, I'm impressed you responded to every question posed (even if some of the responses were cheeky).

I've been thinking a lot about two weird Cognitive Realm things with Roshar, both of which touch on what happens when people (or ideas) die on Roshar. CR Thing One The first involves this WOB: So I take Brandon to be saying here that Kelsier sees manifestations of people's spirits (some combo of cognitive & spiritual aspects) that actually look like people who then get pulled into the beyond because he's a cognitive shadow himself. And therefore that Shallan sees only the flames going out when the sailors die because she still has a valid physical aspect and is merely looking into Shadesmar. Do others agree with this interpretation? If that interpretation is correct, it begs the follow up question: what would someone from Roshar in a similar situation as Kelsier (i.e .someone who had died but was highly invested enough to stick around in the CR for a while) see in the CR when people die? Presumably they would see something similar to what Kelsier saw in SH. This got me to wondering whether there actually are any such entities on Roshar. My first thought was of Kalak, but I think because the Heralds get new bodies when they return to Roshar, he's still technically alive and therefore wouldn't see anything different than what Shallan saw. Perhaps a Knight Radiant who dies would be similar enough? Anyway, curious whether others can think of any other entities like Kelsier that might be kicking around in the CR on Roshar. An alternative thought experiment, I guess, would be what would someone with Shallan's ability to look into the CR see on Scadrial when people die? Also flames going out? Or would the dying spirits manifest differently on Scadrial? CR Thing Two So, the second weird Rosharan CR thing I've been thinking about is the place that the Stormfather imagined that Dalinar sees a couple of times during the visions. Here's a description from TWoK 75: And here's the Stormfather's explanation of the place from OB 34: Dalinar calls this place a place "between his world and the visions." I'm trying to remember, do the visions take place in the Spiritual Realm? Making this place a place in between the spiritual and the physical? It almost seems more to me like a Cognitive Realm within the Cognitive Realm - the place where ideas go to die (I'm getting Inception vibes). Dalinar notes as he's looking around this place in the OB chapter that he sees "A chair, a vase, rockbuds. Sometimes people." I think the part that's most intriguing to me, given the other issue above, is the fact that Dalinar sees people. Going off of the SF's explanation - are these people who died and now there is no longer anyone alive who remembers them? (kinda like CoCo). Or is there something else at play here? For example, in the excerpt from TWoK 75, Dalinar sees a man in uniform - could it be someone who is still alive, but is no longer seen as a soldier? I'm not really sure what to make of it. Or, what about unique spren? If sometime way down the road, no one remembered Cucecish - would it pass through this place that the SF has imagined? Weird concepts, I know.

Not sure about anyone else, but I'm endlessly intrigued by Ulim. And not just his weasely, sycophantic ways. There's a lot of weirdness going on with him. So I wanted to put together a post laying out what we know, and what mysteries remain surrounding that Voidspren we all love to hate. What We Know 1. Appearance Ulim generally takes one of two forms. Either that of rolling, crackling red lightning/energy moving across surfaces; or that of a small human male with "odd eyes" and long hair that waves or ripples in an unseen wind. He can also vanish, making only certain people able to see him. And on one occasion, we also see him with spikes breaking through his skin and then retracting: RoW, Chapter 77. 2. Personality and Mannerisms To put it bluntly, Ulim is just ... the ... worst. He's dismissive, derogatory, and downright callous ("Oh, you thought she was alive?") to anyone he views as bring of a lower station than him. Which seems to include pretty much everyone except for the Fused and Odium himself. Although he's not beyond making snide remarks about even the Fused and the Unmade, provided they're not around to hear it: Row, Chapter 73. But when in the presence of a Fused, he's obsequious and frankly, more than a little cowardly. He's concerned about others making him look bad in front of them. He lies constantly, and is a master at manipulating people. While being dismissive is his go to move, he's plenty able to pour on the praise and promises of future glory if that's what the situation calls for. And while he seems firmly on the side of the Fused and Odium, he speaks and gestures in human ways. Here he is in RoW 59, somewhat reluctantly deciding to work with Venli, while using what seems a very un-singer like expression: Here he is in OB Interlude 3 after Venli grows angry at the way Ulim is speaking about Eshonai: Here's another point later in the same chapter, and this time a Fused calls him out for it: He's unforgiving toward those he views as traitors to Odium's cause (even when they do exactly what he wants them to do). Oh, and he thinks pretty highly of himself (perhaps not entirely undeservedly) for what he was able to accomplish in summoning the Everstorm. This is again from OB Interlude 3: 3. Abilities (Note: I'm proceeding in this section under the assumption that what we see Ulim do with Venli, he would also be able to with other singers) Ulim is able to move in and out of a singer's gemheart without needing a highstorm (though it may require some level of permission from the singer). He's able to crowd into the gemheart along with whatever lesser spren gives the singer their current form. While inside a singer's gemheart, Ulim is able to speak to the singer and even hear their thoughts. By taking up residence inside a singer's gemheart, he also grants them the ability to hear Odium's rhythms. Perhaps his most impactful ability is the ability to manipulate a singer's emotions. He makes Venli dance like a puppet on strings, and through her manages to manipulate a number of other listeners as well in pursuit of his goals. (If interested, you can read in the thread below about my theory that Ulim is actually using vibrations/rhythms to perform this emotional manipulation): As mentioned above, Ulim is able to scoot along surfaces in the form of cracking lightning. And although he doesn't appear to able to fly, he does seem able to sort of jump while in lightning form: This is also one of several instances where we see that Ulim can make physical contact with a singer. Other instances are when he hops onto Venli's shoulder, grabbing onto her hair, and shortly later in RoW 77 when he lands on Venli's arm and begins moving toward her gemheart. During that pivotal moment, Ulim also demonstrates that he can vibrate energy through a singer. After hitting on the idea of starting a war with the Alethi, he vibrates energy through Venli while trying to convince her, not just to go along with that plan, but also that it was in fact her idea. There is a limit to his ability to interact with the physical world, though. For example, he is not able to carry a bag of gemstones, and brings Venli along to do that. One ability that Ulim does not have is the ability to see in Shadesmar. I don't know how notable this is. I tried to look back through the first four books to see whether spren are generally able to do this or not and couldn't really find anything definitive one way or the other. 4. Ulim's Role in Odium's Plans Although it is never explained, the Fused (and even one stormform singer) refer to Ulim as the Envoy. He made his way to Roshar by passing through the barrier storm that blocks the way to Braize in Shadesmar. Through some unknown method, he was pulled into a gemstone in the Physical Realm of Roshar at a place in the southern ocean that, presumably, corresponds with the location of the barrier storm in Shadesmar. Axindweth, a Feruchemist agent of Odium delivered the gemstone into Venli's hands and tempted Venli with promises that it held the secret to granting forms that could heal her mother's illness. After Venli releases Ulim, he begins putting into motion Odium's plan to circumvent Taln, who after 4,500 years of torture has still not broken. By manipulating Venli, revealing information about new forms, and sharing human gem cutting techniques, he eventually succeeds in getting nearly all of the listeners to adopt stormform. This allowed the singers to pull a large portion of the roiling barrier storm - that Odium had broken off and moved through Shadesmar to the the Shattere Plains - through to the Physical Realm. The result: the Everstorm, which restores the Connection and Identity of the singers who were lobotomized by the imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram, and allows for the Fused (and other Voidspren as well I believe) to return Roshar for a good old-fashioned Desolation. After that, Ulim shows up just a couple of times in OB (searching for Eshonai, and the scene where Venli and the other singers are lined up to accept Fused souls in the Everstorm). And then he pops up early on in the invasion of Urithiru (RoW 42), letting Raboniel know that they've found Navani, after which they have this intriguing exchange: And that's it. We don't get to see him again throughout the rest of RoW. 5. Miscellaneous This didn't really fit in above, but I wanted to mention that Ulim recognizes the Heralds (at least Shalash, Kalak, and Nale). And Nale, at least, knows Ulim by name. Relatedly, Ulim is terrified of Nale Remaining Questions about Ulim 1. Why is he called the Envoy? 2. Why does he both appear human and have human mannerisms? 3. What's with the unseen wind that's always rippling his hair when he's in his human form? What's so "odd" about his eyes? 4. How the heck did he make it through the barrier storm? 5. How does he communicate with Axindweth and other agents of Odium? In RoW 77 he says that "I haven’t heard from Axindweth in a few days. I’m certain it’s all right. We have a meeting point where she leaves things for me. The gemstones will be there.” How was he communicating with her? How often did he go to the meeting point? What else did she leave him there? How did he carry it? Also, who are these other agents? 6. Why can't he see into Shadesmar? And more broadly, if anyone can point me to any information about whether other sapient spren are able to do this or not, I'd appreciate it. 7. What's the deal with the creepy little poem that Venli seems to use in RoW 86 to locate/summon Ulim ("Say a name on the breeze and it will return, she thought") 8. What was up with those spikes poking through his skin when he was freaking out he night of Gavilar's assassination? (I've seen someone compare that to how Ati appears a couple of times in Secret History; also reminiscent of the several times when light seems to be poking through Rayse in RoW) 9. What did he mean when he referred to Navani as a new toy? Has he used humans as pawns in the past? Who? When?

Do we know what Realm the Heralds are in when on Braize? I’ve assumed the Physical in the past because of, you know, torture. But as @Child of Hodor points out above, the Fused are likely in the cognitive realm on Braize. And as we know from SH cognitive torture feels real. So maybe the whole sadistic game of hide and seek is all in the cognitive. So much we still don’t know about the mechanics of the Oathpact. One other question to throw out there. Do you think the Heralds have their Honorblades while on Braize?

To your point and @Halyo_Alex’s, it does seem like between Venli and Timbre they ought to be able to sing the tones/rhythms and harmonize to create Warlight just by drawing out light stored in gems. There’s no reason the Voidlight would have to come from Venli’s gemheart (although as a practical matter I suppose she may have a difficult time getting access to Voidlight gems after the events of RoW).

Have we seen any humans do this? I’m not necessarily doubting you. I just don’t remember seeing this happen. One thought I had for how this might work, if it were the case that humans can’t breathe in Voidlight, would be that an Enlightened spren like Glys could hold the Voidlight, allowing Renarin to use it. I’m thinking here of how Pattern can hold onto Stormlight in the form of illusions created by Shallan. So, I think this be a little like Breath and the Returned. They can take on however much additional breath but not give up their Divine breath without it killing them. I think that there’s a small amount that she always has by virtue of the voidspren in her gemheart, without which I’m not sure she would have a form. Here’s something from RoW 67: This was something talked about in the most recent Shardcast. The idea that when used internally, Fused/Regals can seemingly use Voidlight indefinitely without it running out. But to do external things with it requires additional Voidlight. (Which I think raises interesting questions about Lezian)

A couple of points here. First, it seems that when Venli breathes in Stormlight it doesn’t go into her gemheart. RoW 67: And to answer @LewsTherinTelescope’s question, here is what happens when Navani tries to put Stormlight in a gem partially full of Voidlight, from RoW 69: The only way they were able to combine them into Warlight was by sending individual streams out of two separate gems, then singing the Rhythm of War with Raboniel while then touching an empty gemstone. Row 76: So I think with the Voidlight seemingly locked into Venli’s gemheart, there’s no way for her to combine it with Stormlight.

I just hadn’t seen it. But I went back and looked at RoW 116 and it just doesn’t say.

Now that you mention Renarin, I wonder if part of his power to show idealized versions of people (I think we see him do this with both Adolin and Moash) is another form of emotional manipulation. One that he can do because of his enlightened (your welcome Sja-Anat) mistspren.

Fair point. I mean Venli expressly thinks of the new rhythms as corrupted versions of the old rhythms at several points. But that may be a misinterpretation. Some of Odium’s rhythms do seem to be angrier/more violent versions of the older rhythms of Roshar. I guess that could be more like how different languages within a family of languages have slightly different words for the same thing.

This is a really good point I hadn’t considered before about the lack of voidspren. As an initial matter, I don’t know that we’ve ever been explicitly told that the Oathpact applied to voidspren as well as the Fused. In any event it does seem to have functioned that way given things that Ulim and Nale say in RoW. Maybe BAM somehow served as one big voidspren for all of them through Connection and spiritual mumbo jumbo? Or formed a bridge to voidspren trapped on Braize?

I’ve thought Rall Elorim seems most likely because of the reference to tall peaks. On the map of Roshar Rall Elorim looks like it’s in the mountains. Also Kal references seeing additional cities after seeing Szeth and Rall Elorim is further east leaving more land to cross.

It’s been driving me nuts that I still can’t figure out what city that is where Kal sees Szeth while riding the storm. The gold hair made me think Iri, possibly? Thought it might be useful to have the passage for reference. I don’t think this was the Selay gerontarch from Szeth’s list.

So, like the tile says, at various times in SA, I'm pretty sure that Odium's forces are able to use the corrupted rhythms in a manner that is similar to emotional allomancy. They can't completely reprogram the way someone thinks, but they seem to be able to give a nudge in the desired direction. In particular, I think we see Ulim, Venli, and possibly a couple of stormspren use rhythms/vibration to manipulate others' emotions. I started down this line of thinking when I recently reread this Gavilar line from the OB prologue (Eshonai's POV): Given the juxtaposition of the words radiant and vibrant, and all of the stuff we learn about rhythms (i.e. vibrations) in RoW, I started to wonder if maybe the singers had at one point used vibrations in some kind of magical way. At the outset, I'll concede that the simplest explanation for Gavilar's saying that the singers are not longe "vibrant" is that he's just talking about the ones in slaveform. But indulge me. Looking back through WoR, OB, and RoW, I found a number of times where it seems pretty clear that either Ulim or Venli (or Ulim through Venli) use rhythms/vibrations to manipulate the emotions of others. Here's a rundown in chronological order. RoW Chapter 73 That's three times in relatively short order where we see this happen. Her mind growing fuzzy and circling back when she expresses concern about how manipulative Ulim is. Then Ulim's mocking laughter makes her gemheart vibrate. Note how Venli doesn't say that she "attuned" Agony, rather she felt herself attune it, almost like it wasn't her choice, but happened as a result of the ridiculing laughter. And lastly, she again starts to think that something is fishy with Ulim and he immediately starts with the obsequious puffery, accompanied by a rhythm, to cut off that line of thinking. RoW Chapter 77 Here we see Ulim vibrate energy through Venli while again peddling lies to get Venli on board with the plan to assassinate Gavilar. WoR Interlude 11 Here, just before the first highlighted passage, Eshonai is really angry about Venli not telling her that she knew stormform would change her. She's digging on on trying to figure out how Venli found out about stormform. She does not seem inclined to just let this go. But then Venli meets Eshonai's eyes, and hums to confidence while again repeating that they have to take this step, and Eshonai is just like, okay! and then proceeds to immediately do an endrun around the five and orders her stormform officers to round up any dissenters to be killed. In the second highlighted passage, Eshonai finally starts to have some doubts about what she's doing, and it seems like the stormform spren in her gemheart, mindless though it might be, senses her wavering and reacts, ramping up the new corrupted rhythms to push back. WoR Interlude 13 I'm not entirely sure what happens in the first part of this scene where Venli just smiles and goes along with Eshonai's position that they should wait. I imagine Ulim is saying something to her in her mind. Maybe pointing out that Eshonai is now the one manipulating her? Maybe congratulating Venli on making Eshonai think that the idea to wait was her own? I'm not sure, but there's something weird there. And then we get another instance of Eshonai poking into how Venli knows the things she knows and then something deep inside nudges her to move on. OB Interlude 3 I'm not entirely sure that in these two instances Demid is doing something similar to the other examples above. But Venli does seem rather agitated both times, yet quickly capitulates. I'll note that it's at the end of this Interlude when Timbre starts following Venli. Shortly thereafter she starts to be able to hear the old rhythms again, and as far as I can tell doesn't fall victim to this kind of emotional manipulation ever again. Bonus theory: all of this got me thinking that perhaps this is similar to what the ancient singers did, but not just with emotions. What if, rather than bonding with spren, the ancient singers were able to use the rhythms to communicate with the spren and ask them to manipulate the surges? The spren got some of those juicy thoughts and emotions they like so much through the rhythms, and got to manipulate things in the physical realm; the singers got to do cool magic that helped them out. Then the humans come along, all shiny and new, and the spren are like, whoa, now we can actually pass through into the physical realm more. And the singers are like WTF spren? ok, I guess we'll give this Odium guy a try.

Don’t have much to add. Just gonna drop this Lirin line here because I’ve been looking for the right thread to mention it. (emphasis mine)

I know many folks were somewhat disappointed by the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks in RoW. I share that sentiment to an extent, and one area I'm particularly frustrated has to do with Venli's team of listener scholars. Background and Timeline If I have the timeline correct, sometime around mid-1167, shortly after Venli has revealed the secret to - and Eshonai has adopted - warform, Venli puts together her group of scholars. Here's the passage in RoW Chapter 73 Ok, so that's fine. She's got her scholars. They are partly serious and partly a front for revealing knowledge that Ulim provides. Fast forward about 6 months and we're in late 1167 when Gavilar is assassinated. Fast forward another 5 or 6 months and we're in mid-1168. And now we get the scene where Venli gives all five of them gemstones that purportedly contain Voidspren like Ulim. She also lets them in on the plan to ultimately summon the Everstorm. Next, we know that sometime in the latter half of 1168, the scholars began writing down the listeners songs using a form of writing that Venli developed. (In the first Eshonai Interlude in Wor, which we can fairly accurately place in late 1173 thanks to @Jofwu's excellent timeline, she mentions that Venli and her scholar began recording the songs five years ago). Then ... we have no idea what was going on with them for the next FIVE YEARS. I mean, yes we know that generally during this time the listeners were doing their thing, racing the humans for gemhearts. And we know that at some point in time, they figured out nimbleform. But, come on, Brandon. How can you tease us with five more spren like Ulim, who is a deliciously awful, then just not even mention anything about it? The next we hear about Venli and her team of scholars is in late 1173 when Venli is on the cusp of figuring out stormform. We know from WoR Interlude 13 that Venli's scholars, and Venli herself were among the first wave of listeners to adopt stormform. So presumably they all took part in the battle of Narak, but the only ones we ever hear anything else about are Venli, and Demid, who gets taken over by a Fused. So, with that summation complete, I have questions. Questions Who the heck are they all? As of the end of RoW we only know the names of 3 of them. Demid, Tusa (who gets one or two lines in RoW), and Mikaim (who was apparently a surgeon and the listener who helped care for Jaxlim when she fell) Where did Venli get the gemstones purportedly containing Voidspren? We learn in RoW 77 that Axindweth was supposed to have left a bag of gemstones for Ulim/Venli to collect, but she was found out and only left a note. So how did Venli come to have those gemstones? Were there actually other Voidspren in the gemstones Venli gave her scholars? I mean, I feel like there must have been for them to all keep working with her for the next five years. Or did Ulim just pretend to be 5 different Voidspren? (that's a comedy I would watch) What were they all up to for five years before the Battle of Narak? Yes, I know they were recording the songs. Plus I'm guessing from what we learned in RoW about how the Everstorm was summoned that it took some time for Odium to pull the chunk of the barrier storm that he broke off through Shadesmar to the Shattered Plains. And it also took a while for the listeners to be desperate enough to contemplate adopting stormform. But I'm really surprised we got nothing from those five years in the flashbacks. What happened to the others? Did Tusa, Mikaim and the two unnamed scholars survive Narak? In OB Interlude 1, we get this: Are these "loyal friends" the other scholars? If so, we never hear anything else about what happens to them. Demid is taken over by a high-ranking Fused. Were the others also taken over? Are they still kicking around in stormform? I would imagine no because Venli seems to believe she is the only one left until finding Rlain I think that's all of them. We probably just don't know enough to answer most of them. But it just seemed like a notable absence and I wonder if we'll ever get some more answers on some of them.

Good call @AquaRegia. I definitely picked up on this too. I'm not sure whether it's the actual words they use or just a generalized flippancy to the way they speak. You know who else I get the same vibe from? Ulim. Maybe it's a Braize thing?

That could be right. But before the Everstorm, the only non-lobotomized singers were the listeners. And we know from Eshonai's flashback that they generally did not hear Honor's and Cultivation's tones. The only mention of the tones being heard was when the first time that they adopted workform (Cultivation's tone) and warform (Honor's tone). Also, in the Sja-anat Interlude, we get this: So even the common singers restored by the Everstorm don't generally hear Odium's tone. I still think that something about imprisoning BAM dampened or silenced the pure tones. Your other points about teasing out the linguistics are solid, but I think there's still room for the tones to be part of the equation with BAM.

Good point and sorry if I was unclear. I didn’t mean the first time the importance of sound was mentioned in the books. Rather I think the Eshonai flashback is the earliest mention of the tones of Roshar chronologically. That scene when she takes on warform for the first time likely occurred in 1167, five or so years before Shallan goes to Kharbranth.

Intriguing idea. When I saw you use the word surgeon I thought you might be going in a different direction. Here’s Axindweth’s first appearance in the Eshonai flashback in RoW chapter 48: What if Axindweth works for Bleeder?

Thanks @yulyulk and that’s a good point about it being a one time thing, at least for Eshonai. I found where she says that in Chapter 81. She turned back from a workform into a warform and did not hear the tone that time. I like the idea that after not being heard for so long the tones burst through when the Singers finally adopted those long lost forms.

I'm guessing I'm not the first person to theorize in this direction, so apologies if I'm piling onto someone else's BAM theory. Also, this post got way longer than I intended it to. But the gist is that I'm increasingly convinced that Ba-Ado Mishram is the spren of the Tones of Roshar. I'm still not sure what to make of the "Ba" part of the name, but it seems solid that "Ado" is a reference to Adonalsium, or aspects of god/divinity more broadly. As for "Mishram," thanks to the wonders of the internet, I stumbled across the English translation of the Natyashastra, a Sanskrit work on drama, performing arts, theater, dance, music and various other topics. And "Misra" makes an appearance: Here's a link to the site where I found the translation. Really the entire chapter (the tile of which is translated as "On the Time-measure") in which I found the above reads like the listeners songs. It's a listing of different instruments, and sounds, and beats. So, Ado and Mishram together, I think is something along the lines of "the mixed song of God." I think BAM is the spren that represents the perception of the tones of the gods Invested on Roshar. It works on so many different levels. It provides a mechanism for explaining how Odium's tone became one of the pure tones of Roshar. When Odium showed up and Unmade BAM, he did so by making his god-tone one of the tones of Roshar (just like how Raboniel was corrupting the Sibling). It provides a possible explanation for how BAM Connected to the Singers - she used the tones to make a Connection to the spirit-webs of the Singers and provide Voidlight and forms of power. Their gemhearts basically acted as receivers picking up the tones BAM was sending out. And the listeners weren't impacted because they were in dullform and therefore had troubles hearing the tones. And because BAM is the spren of the tones, when she was imprisoned, it more or less silenced the tones. The Sibling pretty much lays it out that this is what happened. From RoW Chapter 49: Then in Chapter 61, the Sibling says: Then, later in Chapter 69, the Sibling says: I don't think anyone has been hearing the tones for thousands of years until the events we see, both in present day and in flashbacks in RoW. I went back and searched for the word "tone" in the first three books. The tones of Roshar are never mentioned. I don't know that they've completely cut off, but at the very least they were seriously dampened. And in the events of RoW, I think we're seeing people start to find moments where they are briefly able to hear the tones again, and that this starts reforging a connection to the tones despite BAM's imprisonment. A sort of workaround. The earliest point in time when we ever see someone mention hearing the tones on screen is the Eshonai flashback in RoW 68: It's only in that moment of transformation when they're touching the Spiritual Realm that they can hear the tone. Eshonai also makes reference to other listeners hearing Cultivation's tone while adopting workform: Then, early in RoW, Navani starts hearing hints of Honor's tone when Dalinar opens a perpendicularity. Just like how Navani explains that gemstones pick up the rhythms, she starts to become attuned to Honor's tone until in the climax of her arc it bursts forth from her. And Venli starts to hear Cultivation's tone again when she sees Rlain and realizes she's not the only Listener left. She finally pulls it through in RoW 83 when thinking back to the songs she sang with her mother, almost like she's reforging a Connection to the tone: There's more here to explore I think, but my Navani-like burst of thinking has come to an end. Would love to hear others' thoughts.

Wow. Great catch. Seems like something that, at the very least, Shallan probably took a Memory of to serve as a look for Radiant.

I agree with this; I just meant that the phrasing indicated that there was a significant enough change to the Oathpact later that it warranted her specifying the "original" Oathpact when talking about Bondsmith abilities.