Oxblood Beagle

No No No What about Alb’s recent post made you feel disinclined to vote them?

That is unironically exactly what my approach to you was before Mouse died, funnily enough.

Fair enough. @Fuchsia Ostrich Why have you consistently avoided outing a read on me? I know I’m a villager obviously, but on paper my D3 looks worse than Iguana’s. I’m surprised you’re considering Iguana here before me.

@Coral Swan can I ask why you role-claimed in your first post of the game?

Hold on…I wasn’t even voting Hyena until about 10 minutes to rollover. I had been on the Meerkat train prior to that.

Edit: I think Albatross is a good vote for today for reasons I’ve outlined in earlier turns; most of them still hold. The only argument that could be made here is why Alb idled their vote when Vulture was getting run up on D3 during EoD. My initial thought was that the elims were relying on their vote manip but if the Soothe came from Lion then this isn’t really case because I still lean village on Lion. It’s possible w!Alb was expecting Tuatara to riot a vote to save Vulture.

There might be 3 if Chameleon is a villager but I’m unsure about distro implications in general. It’s best to operate on the assumption that there are 3 just to be safe.

I wasn’t online during EoD D1, but to anybody that was: do you remember if Tuatara was online at all? Basically, when Mouse had started to doubt his v read on you he came to me (and Scorp) in PMs to discuss his read further and he told me that he had concerns about your thug claim to him from D1. Specifically, he wasn’t sure if he believed the claim and was questioning if v!you would claim to him that early in the game, if e!you would claim to him for strategic reasons etc. So we went over the possibilities of the claim being real vs fake in both v!you and e!you scenarios and never really came to a conclusion other than “let’s just wait and see”. Naturally when I saw you claiming Mistborn my mind immediately went to the “fake thug claim” world, then jumped to the “fake-but-maybe-real thug claim from e!Cham” world, before moving on to the “fake thug claim from v!Cham” world once you mentioned the Seeker, then back to “fake thug claim from e!Cham” world once you hesitated on outing the details about the Seeker’s previous targets plus your own actions, then finally to the “real thug claim from ??!Cham” when I connected the dots to the unexplained gambit Mouse had mentioned after Scorp clarified it in PMs, which was essentially the same time as you clarifying it in-thread. You can see why I needed to go outside for a walk while trying to navigate through this. I think you forgot to finish the thought in bolded. Your vote is fine, though I don’t entirely follow your line of thought in regards to voting early on Hyena = elim. In my experience, elims generally tend to hold their votes. This is because they ideally want to survey the exe landscape and gauge who is up for the exe, whether there is a teammate on the line. Then, they decide how to play their vote. This doesn’t mean elims can’t vote early, they definitely can, but if you’re going to generalize it, I would say elims often vote later into the turn in order to place a better informed vote. Do you disagree? What are your thoughts on Albatross?

I’m unable to find any significant mentions of Vulture in Ostrich’s posts pre-coinshot survival, but @Fuchsia Ostrich why did you ask the group PM about our PMs with Vulture? What prompted that question and what did you find? Reminder that the e!Rioter could have saved Penguin D1 if they wanted to but didn’t. Penguin is probably a villager.

@Amber Vulture GGs, you fooled me. Albatross, anyone? Edit: Zebra, Meerkat, Lion, Ostrich, Penguin are all villagers in my opinion. Edit: On second thought, take Ostrich off that list until I see whether their Vulture push existed pre-coinshot shot at all or if it only materialized after Vulture was half dead.

Oh, I thought I had given these but apparently not, @ ostrich: Penguin Meerkat Lion, but Scorpion is a close fourth. With the caveat that I should be re-evaluating my reads after three consecutive village exes (as should everyone) and have been asked about Scorp in PMs, so I will be looking into them later; Scorp was admittedly one of my first strong village reads purely off approach early-game. I feel pretty good about the first two in any case.

Chameleon, while I do have an ID read on Albatross it has no affect on my alignment read on them. What gave you the impression that it did? I have no preconceptions on what to look for from e!Alb off a meta standpoint, even if my ID read is correct.

@Saffron Iguana what do you think of Swan? I’m mildly surprised they didn’t make your list.

One Spiked down, got ‘em. I still think Vulture is a villager judging by how they seem to be in their own little world here. I would expect an elim to flail a bit and/or offer explanations to climb out of a hole like this but Vulture just seems content RPing. The little OOG disclaimer clarifying that they are not open wolfing is villagery. Ostrich seems like a tunnelled villager and I concede that flipping Vulture yesterday would have been better for game progression irrespective of Vulture’s alignment (this is obviously with hindsight on Heron flipping v). I do think Albatross has good elim equity and I really dislike them being present and posting at rollover but not committing to a vote on either train, especially because in my opinion the top two were v/v and Alb’s lack of stance seems like an elim just trying to stay out of it while acting conflicted in their posts.

What I brought up earlier, their whole perspective of publicly hunting whoever shot them and jumping to the conclusion of the shooter being an elim. Wouldn't e!Vulture...keep the hunting to the elim doc? They're doing it in the thread. There are 4-5 other people they could be working on this with instead if they are e but instead- this. If they're e I don't really understand their approach here at all. Ostrich I've read your post and you want an info exe, that's fine. I follow your logic, I won't vote my village read though.

I think Vulture is a villager, I think Penguin is a villager. Not voting either of these. I think Vulture dies today but whatever, I'll be surprised if they were able to fake their thoughts today as elim. Heron

Chameleon, why were you not up to perform the gambit when Mouse proposed it C1? I’m curious to know why you chose to do it now instead of earlier when you weren’t receiving pressure. To be clear, Mouse did tell me he proposed a gambit (did not tell me the details though) to you along with Falcon and that you hadn’t been particularly responsive to it. This had been one of Mouse’s concerns in regards to you.

Off I go for a longer walk

I just really struggle to understand why a villager would derail the thread in this manner and my thought is you’re an elim who wanted to do this for village cred. As I understand it, Mouse wanted to pull some gambit initially but when proposed to you, you weren’t up for it (Mouse informed me of this bit in PMs) so I’m again confused as to why you’ve decided to pull this here when there was seemingly no reason for it. Iguana Zebra Scorpion: Why did you choose these three? And are you (assuming v!Cham) confident this group is all green? Was this a reaction test or was it you trying to bait the NK? You’ve said both things. That said: Chameleon Until @Saffron Iguana @Quartz Zebra and @Amethyst Scorpion share their views here in the thread.

Chameleon What’s the additional evidence you have against Penguin? What did you dislike about Ostrich’s reaction? How do you know there’s an e!Rioter??

They’ve felt genuine to me in PMs. I am conscious of a possible misclear here as they had an odd reaction in PMs to the back and forth you and I had surrounding your claim earlier (in that their reaction felt a little too tinfoily to be real) but ultimately I’ve been comfortable with their approach so far and don’t really see what you are seeing in the posts you highlighted. Where is the negative logic in the post where they vote for you? — 1. I think a v!seeker would have naturally just told you who they targeted C1. After all, why shouldn’t they? You are confirmed village to them. The fact that they didn’t volunteer that information is a red flag. The fact that they claim a convenient C1 scan like Falcon is a red flag. Why haven’t you outted them to the thread? Well because it doesn’t make any sense to, from your point of view. It’s objectively the incorrect thing to do in this scenario. 2. If you’re an elim the seeker doesn’t exist because they couldn’t have scanned you as a village mistborn? Any seeker targeting e!you here would not out their results to you but would instead out via proxy. 3. Weren’t you yourself arguing a while ago that you suspected the seeker to be an elim claiming to you for village cred? Didn’t you cite a few games where this has happened? Am I delusional? 4. I don’t understand this point; are you arguing against v!Chameleon? Are you saying you’re an elim? — Additional evidence? — Let me make this clear: I am not voting Vulture today. The way they’re handling the shot on them I almost never expect to come from an elim. An elim wouldn’t want to antagonize whoever shot them in this way and Vulture’s perspective here, in my opinion, is hard to come to as an elim to begin with. Apologies for my posts looking like this. It’s hard on mobile.

What do you mean? Can you please answer my earlier question about why you v!read Heron last cycle? Apologies if I missed the explanation somewhere. Why are you assuming whoever targeted you must be an elim? I saw the village case on Heron. I’m not convinced, especially because in my experience elims often just latch onto one suspect (Iguana, in Heron’s case) that they weakly push for as long as they can. Their readslist from C2 also felt half-heartedly put together and I couldn’t really detect a process to them What I will give you is the point about their vote being left on Iguana in v!Meerkat worlds. Though sometimes elims just…do weird things. As an aside, why are so many people village reading Albatross? I know Mouse v!read them on the logic that they wouldn’t have killed Falcon. And that reason is fine for putting Alb aside momentarily, but I dont think that logic alone is sufficient to continue v!reading them 2 cycles later? @ Ostrich and other players I don’t remember. Chameleon, I think? I think Vulture straight up wanting to find and execute whoever shot them is mildly villagery. They’re incorrectly assuming that this must be an elim, but I don’t think an elim would confidently take that leap in logic in the thread. I v!read Penguin as well. Though I’m starting to think I’m almost certainly misclearing people. I saw Chameleon’s action claims and the C1 scan. These sure are some results. There is 100% an elim between Chameleon and the Seeker. If Chameleon is an elim the seeker does not exist, and if Chameleon is village the Seeker needs to die in my opinion. Edit: @Sapphire Elephant why did you dislike the Hyena train? I was unable to find an explained Hyena read in your posts prior to this one; your read there had essentially been "nothing AI" during D1 and an unexplained categorization into V- during D2.

I am going to go outside for a walk

I don't understand though, why did you claim this here and not in PMs to your trusted village reads? If you suspect the elim team knows your role now because you think this seeker is one of them, why do you think they revealed their results to you? Edit: Mint Heron for now, while Ostrich tells us why we shouldn't vote here. Edit: The optimal move would have been to reveal the seeker's identity to someone you trusted while you pretended to trust the seeker to see if they NKd you or not. If you try to retract this whole thing and call it a reaction test I think I will want to kill you again. Edit: Who did they scan C1?

Are you claiming the coinshot on Vulture?