Oxblood Beagle

Well, this makes me uncomfortable. The reason I'm voting Octopus is because of the interactions with you...

While I'm vaguely suspicious of Iguana (enough to warrant a vote to secure an exe), I am more solidly suspicious of Octo and Swan. Now that Octo is a viable candidate again. I'd rather see that than Iguana.

Octopus Iguana

Not great about either of them. I'd like to give Flamingo a little more time to actually interact, and I'm not seeing the same suspicions. And for Albatross, I strongly disagree with that particular train. It seems to stem from them being a thug, which I have lengthy feelings about exing someone just because they have a survival role.

Aww. That would certainly spice things up, though. EDIT: Hit send too early. I'm down to switch back to Octo (or Swan), as they're definitely higher on my suspicion list than you

I was just putting one together because of the mishaps in the others and started to question my counting... Swan (0) - Falcon Iguana (5) - Falcon, Chameleon, Hyena, Beagle, Iguana Mouse (0) - Meerkat Ostrich (0) - Beagle Albatross (2) - Penguin, Vulture, Gorilla Gorilla (0) - Swan Chameleon (1) - Axolotl Octopus (1) - Meerkat, Beagle, Penguin Flamingo (3) - Heron, Ostrich, Swan Falcon (0) - Albatross EDIT: The bold is just to be clear who has more than 1 vote at this point.

Fixed it. (I think)

Because with both of their votes swapping from Cham to Gorilla, Swan was in the same amount of danger, or less so because the push for Cham was already dying. Like elims swapping targets before it grew too dangerous in hopes of getting a more solid train to oppose the one on a teammate. If I'm alone in this, though, I'll not vote on either of them, as I'd rather have an exe which vote manips can't influence.

I am still suspicious of Swan, and thus Octo, as I don't see how the mistake in the count makes that aspect look any better. It actually kind of makes it look worse. However, in the interest of not having a 4-way tie in the votes, and getting some answers about the last day turn, Iguana (Octo/Ostrich since I didn't green out my first vote).

My only counter to this is the possibility that it's Octo/Swan who are E/E, and the move off Cham was because of the waning interest in that exe train. With the Swan train having a few people join, an elim teammate might have been searching for another possible person people would be willing to vote on. It would make sense to me, especially in the hours leading up to the end. Enough time for people to be active and move, but not so close that it actually endangers the teammate. Three and a half hours is more than enough for a train to swing, clearly. That kind of move also makes analysis more difficult, as it distances teammates rather than ties them together with a direct defense. On the other hand, I do concede that this is tainted by my suspicion of Swan overall for their voting last turn, and that your reasoning does make sense as well. Either way, it hinges on Octo.

Alright. I'm finally logged into a desktop and not sequestered to mobile only where typing long things is an arduous process that I'm far too disinterested in undertaking. Let's see if I can contribute something more than a few lines here and there. I think I believe Albatross' Thug claim. No matter the alignment, they'd have been an odd Lurcher target, unless they were a Lurcher self-preserving. Odd coinshot choice, too. If it were a v!Coinshot, my guess is it had to do with Albatross' vote being suspicious, combined with wanting to avoid hitting someone with likely protection (ironic, yes?). If Iguana, Gorilla, or Chameleon are elims, and we are right about a e!Lurcher, they're the most likely to be protected. If it were an e!Coinshot, then it's obvious why they didn't hit the top exe targets. Overall, this makes me lean slightly village on Albatross, though that's also pending confirmation that there is an e!Lurcher. I'd suspect elims have either a Lurcher or a Thug, but not both, unless it's a smaller team. Good that we have that many Tineyes, though I am sad at the status of my personal PMs. I should change that. Most of the late votes in C1 make sense, as they were the exe targets self-preserving. Albatross' sticks out still, but I'm not certain it's condemning, especially with their attack. Scorpion's is the only other late vote, and that seemed an attempt to avoid ties, which I can accept as not necessarily being AI. As for Chameleon, Iguana, and Gorilla, I'll take some more time tomorrow to dig into their posts and see what the suspicion is all about. I'm inclined to trust Chameleon a little more because of the lack of response to their exe for the first day and a half. It wasn't until votes started shifting towards the other two that people started getting more involved (though whether that's from the late hour or one of them being elim is unclear). I was paying attention to the thread, but don't actually remember why either Iguana or Gorilla were considered suspicious. Actually, let's do that now (not thoroughly, sorry. I am tired and it is late). But I'll at least look at the voting patterns. Gorilla's first vote came from Axolotl, who pointed out Gorilla's posts as having the appearance of usefulness, but not actually helping. Meerkat's vote came from the same place, but was removed before the next vote from Swan for Gorilla's opportunistic vote on them. Which, yeah. That was a bit odd. Granted Octo's vote right after also seemed opportunistic/elim jumping on train. Iguana's first vote was from Chameleon regarding Iguana's discussion of LG74 (which then prompted the first votes on Chameleon). That vote didn't last long, and the next vote was Chameleon again late Wednesday avoiding any of the current trains, followed by a vote from Croc who said they brought the idea up with Cham because despite the contribution levels, they still had a null read on Iguana. It was tied between Gorilla and Croc until the last 15 minutes, when Albatross voted on Iguana. Then self-pres votes started flying. As I said before, those last votes are pretty NAI. With the voting patterns, I am more suspicious of Gorilla than Iguana or Chameleon. This means I also want to look more closely at those on the Crocodile and Iguana trains a little more closely, since those were the main ones that attempted to save Gorilla. The one thing that bothers me, though, is how close all of the votes were left, even with the last-minute frantic scramble for self-presing. If either of the three were elims, we should have seen a little more distance in those late votes to protect one or the other. Vote manip changes that a bit, but if elims have it (not sure that's likely because of how powerful it can be in the end), certainly village does too, which is very dangerous for elims if one of theirs is close to exe. I think we should start looking into other people who've been under the radar. How's it going Ostrich. ( @Fuchsia Ostrich )

We all did. It's in one of the Tineye messages.

I need to dig into the rules more, but it could also be that whomever did the vote manipulation put in the orders earlier on. Maybe they were among those uncomfortable with the Pearl train, and we're subsequently not around when things actually started to swing. Since (I believe) targets are the voters, not the votees, it could be the targets changed their votes when the manipulator was no longer around to see and change it.

That makes a little more sense, but I'm also in the camp of having ignored too many gut suspicions in the past that turned out to be right. Which is why I'm all for voting on suspicious reads regardless of post count or explainable reasoning.

Hmm. I'm feeling weird about Swan's. I get voting for someone who's posted over not, but I don't get why vote for someone who's null over someone with an elim read. Especially D1, when votes are made up and reasonings don't matter.

El said that no, this is not role madness. Not everyone has a role.

I will take this into consideration. . . . Considered and approved. I'm intrigued by the distro discussion, but find it mostly irrelevant. Fifth and I believe El are both inclined towards random distros with maybe a few minor bumps for balance. It's unlikely that we can bank on certain roles certainly being certain alignments.

Mood

Heron’s confirmed, Vulture’s not.

I mean, they could be. There would just have to be something even more very weird going on. Also, I more meant I’m saying I’m not Warform, and I’m “not” Scholarform. One’s a hard claim, one’s… what I would say in any case.

Uh … no I didn’t. I just put my vote on Heron earlier and didn’t move it. I’d considered it, seeing as there was a lot of Elim-Warform-Beagle or bust, but I figured trying to confirm myself that way would be too… too desperate? Too something. I’m not contesting Vulture’s Warform claim though. Scholar? Eh. Unfortunately I’ve rather backed myself into a corner on that end. I’m slightly scared of Vulture, because between them and Heron I don’t know what to think. But if next cycle is 6-5 exelo… E-War-Vulture is immortal, because we can’t afford to spend a cycle killing their extra life when we’re only leading by one. Actually that might just mean E-War-Vulture means an Elim win unless they just miss a kill. But we’d be in that exact situation with Heron as well, and I think of the two I’d bet my spheres on Evil Heron. …. or someone converts to the Voidbringers and ends the game this turn. That could also happen.

Same could be said for you, Heron. Just a little later to the punch. So, did you not see anyone else try and make a Warform? Then where did the whole Beagle-held-the-Scholar-Gem story come from???

Yes, but your argument for Elim-Scholar-Beagle was that you didn’t see me/anyone trying to create a Warform D2. (I assume multiple Scholars creating the same form RNG’s it.) And then you ejected from the form N2. So what did you see?

Well this is just all kinds of what is going on. Should I claim Warform too? And… I’m not going to move just yet, because Heron similarly didn’t respond, but Vulture, how exactly were you accusing me of holding the Scholar Gem and not using it when you created precisely one gemstone with it?

And here we are again. Heron. First Tuatara, then Hyena, now Scorpion? You never answered what had changed to shift you to Hyena when I asked in my mega-post (not that many people did respond to that, but still), and I don't remember you going after either Scorpion or Hyena, or at least with any force. So I would very much like to know what you're doing. I need to make this longer. Sort of lost a post. Jalnor was in shock. The mateform… they'd been the one that Jalnor had been set against. Neither had been killed, as neither had enough supporters to actually get either of them... either of them... And now they lay dead on the ground all the same. Killed by the servants of Odium for not falling to the will of the singers. They hadn't wanted this. Nobody had, Jalnor thought. Yet it had happened all the same, and the why, the why... some even thought they had been a Fused. What on Roshar was happening to them? Jalnor? These singers, these listeners, them all?