Isilel

Honestly, the deal that Dalinar ended up making with Odium was so incredibly vague, that I don't think that any one loophole or even change of the Vessel could be of critical importance. My particular quibble with it is that it doesn't cover the Radiant spren.

Honestly, steel is just much better for moving around - easier, safer and usable anywhere as long as a Coinshot has enough metal bits. This is the main non-combat application for steel allomancy and can be helpful in a wide variety of contexts. I do wonder though, if it also couldn't be used instead of a hammer in carpentry, for instance, or to push an awl in leatherwork. Lurchers are really disadvantaged because not only do they need to have metal in environment to move via allomancy, it must be sturdy enough to bear their weight. And there is little that they can do to save themselves if they miscalculate. Iron allomancy would be very helpful in high-rise or skyscraper construction, though, since there'd be plenty of strong metal frames there. And an ability to pull tools towards oneself is convenient, as seen with Ranette. But what I'd really love to see would be Lurchers flying around on hang-gliders, powering propellers with their allomancy. It should be feasible - and even more so once weight medallions become commonplace.

Didn't stop Timbre with Eshonai, Design with Ehlokar, Pattern with Shallan or even the Stormfather with Dalinar! We should be careful not to consider Syl's or Honorspren opinions to be universal. So far we have seen about half of early Radiants entering the early stages of bonding despite having deadblades. It is possible that opinions of spren, who would fit Adolin best, are aligned with Syl's, or that the depth of his bond with Maya warned them off. Or that he is too balanced without clear tendency towards one particular Order. I know that the murder of Sadeas gets brought up often, but let's not forget that Jasnah had ordered a number of assassinations and it didn't stop her from attracting a spren. And Shallan's motivation for killing her father is quite similar to Adollin's for killing Sadeas and ditto.

Yes, but from what we know so far it doesn't seem that he has been one before his first wife's death. Which is why he found himself in financial straits in the first place. We also don't know for how long Luesh has worked for Davars. Shallan didn't appear to be in a condition to do anything for the Ghostbloods during this period, though her recollections are, of course, always suspect. But it would make sense if some of Veil's skills turned out to be real, rather than created from a whole cloth, as seemed previously. Also, would explain Mraize's belief that she was the "real" Shallan. I am also firmly convinced that he lied about certain aspects of Davar family tragedy and that the mother and/or her friend were connected to the Ghostbloods, rather than the Skybreakers. And that her attack on Shallan may have had other aims than the obvious.

But BTW, do we need to spoiler things in this thread?

Of course, a very important question here is who is "us". I see people applying it very broadly, but more likely IMHO it just means the Sleepless on Roshar, or a particular faction of them, or possibly even a single swarm. It could also mean the Ghostblood chapter on Roshar, if the swarm behind this text is the one who is a member. Wouldn't it spell a massive die-off of everything on Roshar? Given that everything native was created to co-exist with it and even for humans and their animals, it granted them resistance to infectious disease. Sudden lack of stormlight for a lengthy period of time ought to result in deadly epidemics comparable to what happened when Europeans reached the Americas! No way to tell how it would affect spren either, they seem to feed on stormlight, though it isn't explicitly stated. I don't see Roshar surviving without it for a decade or more. A few months, maybe. Maybe? I feel that Kaladin is being positioned as Dalinar's successor and the one who will complete his work. A person can theoretically belong to 2 Orders and Syl has a very special relationship with the Stormfather, which may help her share Kaladin with him. Alternatively, with the discovery of anti-light she might die. Proximity to Nightblood could also prove unhealthy to her.

How do they have cars, then? And rapid explosion in their numbers between AoL and TLM? Not sure why the channels would have precluded wide adoption of bicycles, this didn't happen iRL in, say, Netherlands. They will have magi-tech on Roshar, sure, but it would have been more interesting if North Scadrial, while more technologically Earth-like in this Era , still went for twists on the theme, the paths almost trodden, etc., rather than just copying North American development, despite all the differences in pre-existing conditions. Ditto flora and fauna, honestly. Somehow in the cosmere they are either wholly outlandish or boringly mundane. What about all the exciting extinct pre-historic stuff?

Ah, true. I think that compounding might still happen, but Breaths would be converted into Preservation's investiture in the process. Hm... But then tapping it should make the person more invested, yes? So, potentially a temporary Mistborn perhaps? Also what if you store this unkeyed compounded Preservation's investiture in a Nicrosil spike and then insert it in a corresponding bind point of an unpowered person? With some added Connection shenanigans it might allow for a permanent artificial increase in a person's investment level. Which should express itself in a random allomantic power, just like it does in natural Mistings. I guess that I badly want for Metallic Arts to become broadly accessible and integrated into everyday life on Scadrial, rather than being reserved for the rarest of the genetic elite, who alone merited the protagonist status so far. There was some movement in that direction in Era 2, but not nearly enough, IMHO. We were still mainly following superheroes by birthright. I know that it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't want the Mistborn back - they were far too overpowered and unfocused. Well, one as an antagonist may be interesting, so if it's still the plan for the next trilogy, I am game. Instead, I'd like everyone to be a functional Metalborn of some kind, with potentially a limited access to a couple of extra abilities via gadgets. So that skill, cleverness, creativity and teamwork would carry the day, rather than just an unbeatable power advantage.

@teknopathetic, Thank you for this exhaustive summary! Some thoughts: Are Sho Del actually described as having 6 limbs in Dragonsteel? Because I remember wondering about it whenever I read fighting scenes with them, where they never used more than 2 hands/arms. Likewise, all it takes for the Lord of War to disguise himself as one of them is wearing armour with a concealing helmet. They do, of course, have 4 arms in canon after TLM and Yumi. Are dragons Fain, given their human form? Or are they something in-between? Maybe an intended bridge between the 2 ecologies? I also find it interesting that unlike in the few chapters of Liar of Partinel that have been made public, Fain ecology doesn't seem to be invasive or transformative. Regarding Adsen's charm, isn't it more likely that it contains a bit of tamu-kek than that the fain wood itself allows one to hear mental communication?

It does seem a likely interim step, yes. Though they need to figure out how to make it programmable too, since at this point it both doesn't confer a usable power and it's investiture infusion is impermanent. Once they solve these problems, it will be a very small step to transfer the method to other investitures. But then, both the narrative and Sanderson in WoBs are more disapproving towards hemalurgy than is entirely merited, IMHO. I guess, traditional hemalurgy, even if completely voluntary on the part of a dying donor, would be a kind of suicide, so that's why. P.S. If they luck into discovering/somehow creating a Nicrosil Compounder, they could multiply a small seed amount of Breath, and use that to begin with, since it is already possible to imbue metal with it. Not quite as ethical as purified Dor, but would probably make proof of concept and earlier prototypes easier to create.

Why not wholly synthetic spikes? Grab whatever investiture is freely available, remove it's coding, imbue it into a corresponding metal spike and code it with Preservation's Rhythm and that of a desired power. IIRC Moonlight even hinted at something like that when she grabbed the Set's scientists research. Navani's experiments (and those of whoever created Gavilar's anti-light, IMHO Ghostbloods) already demonstrated the feasibility of re-coding. Purified Dor also likely has it's rythms removed to make it universally useable. Now they just need to figure out how to permanently imbue metal with something that isn't Breaths.

I love your idea of Forging Metallic Arts a person already possesses into other types and IMHO it should be very doable. But since Forging is pretty much based on changing Identity, it probably wouldn't provide a workaround for the problem of interference. Not by itself. But once feruchemical aluminium medallions exist... or if you are prepared to use a respective spike, then yes, a Twinborn should be able to do what you suggest. Though spikes may interfere with Forging. Moonlight doesn't have any, after all.

I don't see how Coinshots could be seen as fulfilling the same function as planes? Though if Northern Scadrians don't crack the secret of mechanical applications of Metal arts and don't find their own source of harmonium, they are likely to develop Earth equivalent aviation, now that there is a very strong reason to do so. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed how the Basin seems to develop along the same lines as US transport-wise even though the starting situation was very different. For one, it is unclear to me why Scadrial even has mineral oil, leave alone in sufficient abundance for rapid motorisation depicted. For another, the distances in the Basin aren't even comparable and trains/channels are wholly sufficient for longer trips. Where are the bicycles, which were an important personal means of transport in Europe for many decades in the 20-ieth century? And which certain types of Metalborn could use to much greater effect than normal humans? Where are the blimps, which would have been much easier and safer to operate with a crew of Metalborn? Where is muscle-powered flight, which, again, is very difficult iRL, but pewterarms, Iron Ferrings, etc. should have been able to achieve? Maybe even Coinshots and Lurchers if they used their allomancy to power propellers in addition to/instead of muscle power. Personally, I'd prefer to see either exotic technologies in the Cosmere, or technologies that existed or were potentially doable iRL, but got sidelined for one reason or another.

@Atlas333, thank you for this exhaustive compilation of quotes! Sadly, I have nothing informative to add, just that I am also excited for this book. I really want to read an "Age of Exploration" fantasy story and Scadrial would fit so perfectly, what with most of the world being unknown to Northern Scadrians. Frankly, I was rather disappointed that in TLM the Set base wasn't hidden somewhere in unexplored territories beyond the Roughs. Anyway, here is to hoping that this Nicki Savage adventure is finished and made available to us in foreseeable future!

Yes, it was notable IMHO that while Oreon tried to force Topaz to relinquish his power to him, he just threatened and manhandled Jerick in order to manipulate Doruso. You'd think that he would have been even more interested in the power of destruction, but nope.

I have wondered since the ret-con of this pool into a perpendicularity whether post-Reod Elantrians got restored once they found themselves on the other side. After all, the incomplete transformation was due to the Dor not being able to reach through Arelon any longer after the landscape changed. But once the Hoed were in the Cognitive, they were surrounded by the Dor, so should have been restored. OTOH, the Dor are also supposed to be like a plasma storm and very dangerous. So, maybe it was a bit of a luck of the draw whether people would get destroyed or not, depending on the movement of said storm.

I disagree. Muscle memory shouldn't mean that your muscles are up to performing at pretenatural level of skill without serious injury. The person whose memory you are using should also be about the same size as you for it to be helpful in a fight. It would always be a judgement call when to use which memories and how often, given that they get used up a little with each recall. Etc. It would actually be far less overpowered and more limited than a number of other Metallic Arts, which don't require any level of skill or thought to employ on a basic level from everything we have seen. Wayne even mentioned how easy using steel allomancy was, without any training, once he got his spike. Yes, a skilled practicioner can do more, but as we have seen throughout the 2 series, people who just got or began to use combat powers immediately became very powerful with them.

Hm, didn't think about it. Something like a copper-harmonium alloy sounds really intriguing, as well as decently available. And hopefully no longer explosive when it comes in contact with moisture. They would also have enough trellium to experiment with, I guess. But other god metals seem rarer, so only the Ghostbloods would have access, I imagine.

Honestly, the whole thing with TLR keeping _all_ his feruchemical storages in those bracelets never sat well with me, particularly since we had heard about the alleged decapitation incident before that scene. TLR was known for wearing earrings and other jewelry, you'd think that even if it didn't occur to him to implant storages, like they do in era 2, he would have worn distributed atium, gold and steel metalminds at the very least. I do think that it is theoretically possible that he could have had a stockpile of chromium produced at some point during his millennium-long tenure, then executed everyone involved and compounded Fortune into it. He could have hidden it beneath the other metals of his bracers so that the Inquisitors wouldn't see it. Frankly, that's another can of worms, because the Inquisitors should have been able to see the other metals in his bracers and been able to deduce the source of his power. The biggest problem with your suggestion, @MilaMayhem is that TLR wasn't taking the fight seriously and wasn't tapping even his more conventional powers, such as speed. So, even if he had Fortune to tap, why would he? But the idea itself is great - it wouldn't surprise me if something along these lines happens to someone (ab)using Fortune in the future. Maybe even Hoid?

That would be great, yes. I also find it disappointing that according to a WoB, copper doesn't store muscle memory. It would have been such an interestingly versatile, yet properly limited ability if it did! I really hope that Sanderson reconsiders while writing the next Mistborn trilogy, because it would be nice to if he could foreground the less straightforward Metallic Arts without completely sacrificing action potential.

But why should they do something like this? Doesn't it make more sense for former deadeyes to bond the squires, if they choose to bond? Also, Aux was a highspren and the Skybreakers didn't participate in the Recreance. So, if he had been a deadeye, and there was no indication of this in "The Sunlit Man", his bond must have been broken under some special circumstances. I bet that it was the same fear of destroying Roshar if some people had too much power at their disposal.

Well, terminally sick and dying might agree to do it voluntarily, in order to provide for their families. Honestly, the Southerners should have something like that embedded in their post-Catacendre culture, where their few Metalborn are concerned. Given how important Metallic Arts are for their survival and the Sovereign's/Kelsier's stance on Hemalurgy.

I, too, am very much wondering about her. Who is she? Why does she look so different from her brother, who doesn't like to acknowledge their relationship? Why is she so important to Frost and why wasn't he surprised when she microcinetically called for help during the pond episode? If she is not a Dawnshard, could she be a dragon unbeknownst to herself?

According to this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/369/#e11669 and some others along similar lines, the first half of SA is more about Radiants, while the second one will be more about the Heralds. So, I imagine that we will learn about the reasons for the Recreance and details of BAM's imprisonment in the 5th book. Whereas the second arc will have something to do with how it all started and presumably with how to avoid repetition of the past. So, IMHO the prologues might depict the day of swearing of the Oathpact.

IMHO, Preservation told the Terris about recording important information in metal back when he gave them the Prophecies. The tragic mistake of the Worldbringers was that at some point they came to believe that using copper Feruchemy was as secure as writing in metal, when of course it was a power that was half of Ruin and open to his manipulations. Also, Alendi was in truth Preservation's chosen, just like Vin, and Ruin managed to get to him and mislead him ditto.