The Night Watcher

Best answer so far. Yeah, that explains how the windspren got there, but why'd they like Kaladin so much? Is it because windspren are subspren of honorspren and maybe are attracted to honor in the same way (at least in Shadesmar)?

Ah. So we were thinking the same thing. Well, my brain always did make me look more stupid than smart.

Wow... That story is a lot more depressing than I remember... I was very sad when Jezrien died. Mostly for Ash's sake. But after this...I kinda feel bad for the Heralds in general.

Well. I found that little dialogue to be quite entertaining, so thanks for that. But this whole thing is interesting to me. The books keep bringing up how hard it is to kill spren, but it's very easy to hurt them. Sounds more like a liability than a help, if you ask me, but anyway. I wonder what happens to the deadeyes. What do they think about? Is Maya a special case in that she remembers her name, or do all Shardblades retain memories of their past like that? I feel that maybe it's more of a personal decision on the sprens' parts, sort of like a traumatized victim refusing to associate with anyone because of the harm done to them. Like, the spren were hurt so bad they don't trust people anymore. And also, they (I keep saying 'they' as if I have more to reference than Maya but really I don't) seem almost feral, if that makes any sense? So maybe their soul being ripped from them is sort of like their humanity taken away. It'd explain why they (Maya) seem like mindless robots, and the screaming, and how other spren are so uncomfortable around them. There's my mind belch. Any thoughts?

Yes, but what does his name have to do with that? :/ I actually always found it rather ironic that his name is Ivory when he's described as being pitch-black.

As in "'flip the bird" kind of finger? At whom?

Adolin's Blade. Is she actually dead? She shows some cognizant abilities, but she's unresponsive. She knows her name. She's able to decide how fast she appears in Adolin's hand. So...is she becoming less dead? Or was she never dead in the first place?

I read Oathbringer (twice, actually ;P) but the whole deal with Heralds is confusing me. What exactly happened with the Recreance and Aharietiam? The Stormfather is blaming Honor for not preparing the Radiants before he died. And some of the Heralds betrayed the other Heralds by leaving them in Damnation? I dunno. Can someone explain that? Also, how are they not dead. At least, Ash and Taln aren't. Don't know if there are others.

Well... He was thinking Kaladin-y things: honor, duty, stoicism, etc. So maybe...? Nothing that has to do with wind, but if the windspren are subspren of honorspren, then maybe they're attracted to honor in Shadesmar.

Syl is the only spren (as far as I can recall) to tell Kaladin her name. All the rest — Pattern, Ivory, Wyndle, Spark, etc. — were named by their Radiants. (I don't remember if Glys was a given name or a habituated name, but I think Renarin named him?). So did the Stormfather name her, maybe?

When they're on the honorspren ship, Kaladin attracts some windspren. He does this by...thinking really hard? Anyone understand this...?

Granted. The streets, once clogged by angry teen girls, have been cleared. Rather then yell and wave fists because 'SHADOLIIIIN!' they take their disagreements to court to discuss their differences as civil human beings. Unfortunately, the court systems are soon overrun by tyrannical fifteen-year-olds looking to infringe their terrible Jasnadin views on an unwilling society. Skirmishes break out as rebel groups and non-conformists seek to overthrow the once-benign government. Civilians and innocents are caught in the crossfire, while this war rages on for over fifty years. By the end, the rebel forces are bloodied and near extinction, so they retreat and make way for a new era — an era of crude paintings and smutty literature written about the burning passion between Alethkar's queen and the brooding Captain, all to slake the lust of tyranny. I wish that I didn't wake up at night, every night.

Yeah... I don't think Jasnah intentionally hurts people, just doesn't connect through small talk and pointless niceties and therefore doesn't always understand what someone might find offensive. When she tells Shallan she's not good with her wards, I believe this is what she meant. A sort of facepalm moment where she realized, yet again, she is not good with people.

Yep. Couldn't have said it better. Always had trouble seeing the connection between them.

Only heard whispers of this stuff. What book do I read for information?

@Yata Dang that's disappointing. I was hoping to get some spren buddies. Maybe in future books? But as you say, Nahel spren are much more focused on their Radiant than other spren.

@Mutantspicy @StrikerEZ Okay... I'm worried. I remember Timbre with Eshonai, but I totally don't know anything about her meetings with Venli. Could you guys tell me when that happens??

@StrikerEZ woops, new to forums, so thanks for that. So...few things. With Syl... Well, I know windspren are similar to honorspren, but I don't see much distinction between them?? If Syl hadn't appeared as the full-sized woman and told Kal she was, I'd have no idea -- and Kal was surprised too. So...how does that work exactly? With Wyndle, I was referring to his wit. No, his character is not dry at all. And "priss"... Well. Remember in primary school those kids that turned their noses up at you in the cafeteria, and they just sat together in their little highbrow huddles, glaring at you while they stuff food in their mouths like they were three weeks starved? Those kids were "prissy." Stormfather's like that. If he got gum on his shoe, he'd "ew."

Alright, but you can only ingest rusty nails, and you haven't yet had your tetanus shot. I wish to have wings.

1. Syl - cute, reminds me of my neighbors' daughter, Kathy. Confused about her weird Honorspren-windspren persona shift thing, though. 2. Pattern - oh my God, he's adorable his first few months when he appears to Shallan (and Jasnah calls him imbecilic), even better now making awkward for Shallan and Adolin. My favorite bean. 3. Ivory - I really like him for some reason, specially that weird speech pattern he's got going. He's like there posh British man of spren. 4. Glys - he's...shy? Nonexistent? Hates the cold and hides in Renarin's shirt to keep warm, while consequentially keeping himself from view? Honestly don't know anything about him, but I am obliged to love him because he's a spren. 5. Wyndle - dry like wine. 6. Stormfather - let's be honest. He's a priss. P.S. Syl is my favorite. What are your thoughts on the spren?

Just wondering. I mean, Syl is friendly enough (except to Pattern). This could be my imagination, but...she did she meet with Ivory or Glys already? Yeah, but I think would create an interesting dynamic. If a spren were friends with another spren, and they're Radiants didn't like each other. Or best friend Radiants have spren who refuse to talk to each other. Does the Storm father have friends? He seems too...ethereal. (And let's be honest, he's a priss.)

@Calderis oh! That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that explanation. But I still wonder about how sapient spren perceive human concepts, like morality.

For a bonded, or an unbonded. I'm curious for either. Do you think the bonded understand morality? Do their understandings differ depending on what type of spren? (i.e. Syl is better at understanding right and wrong [and by default, human nature] than Pattern, who often expresses confusion as to the reasons for humans' actions.) Do the unbonded think at all? Or do they think in images? Can they communicate? How does it work in Shadesmar? (If I recall, Jasnah mentions something about the Honorspren being vigilante in Shadesmar. Does this mean that all Honorspren can be bonded, and therefore they have consciousness, even if they are NOT bonded?) UGH. So many questions. Brandon WHY?

@Dreamstorm funny thing is that even though I don't believe Jasnah is interested in romance, I also sorta DO believe she is? But I can only imagine these two associations with romance: 1. It happened in the past, but she didn't like the restrictions on her freedom so she broke it off. 2. It could happen in the future, during her time as Queen. I imagine Jasnah was more emotional when she was young. I think she's still emotional, but she's just learned to manage them now that she's experienced. Jasnah has always been a symbol of freedom in the books (IMO) -- I seem to remember Shallan is always placing Jasnah on a pedestal, admiring her unwillingness to conform to societal standards. Jasnah proclaimed herself a heretic years ago, I assume. That, the fact that she's one of the most brilliant women in the world, plus her refusal to play damsel, all set her into an isolated bubble. I imagine that gets lonely. Why wouldn't Jasnah want a similarly brilliant mind to share ideas and find comfort with? So maybe she fancied romance when she was young, she tried it. But something had to happen to make her so aversive to relationships in the future. Maybe she was traumatized (as so many people say), but I think more likely it was something simple. Just go over what you know about Jasnah. Scholar, icon of freedom, lonely. So she's lonely, finds a partner. But she's first and foremost a scholar, with great passion for finding answers and helping her people, and though she might long for romance, in the society she lives in she kind of can't do both. I think she felt trapped in her relationships, between commitment to her partner and to her duty, so she broke it off. And after that, she decided that the world was more important than her own desires (which seems a very Jasnah-like thing to do), and she swore off marriage. Now, her character during the time that the books take place, she seems a lot more...okay with not having romance, even going so far as to apologise to Shallan for arranging her marriage and showing genuine surprise at Shallan's openness to it. Maybe she became more confident in being alone? Or maybe she's convinced herself she's better off alone as the years passed (in the unhealthy way)? Whatever happened, Jasnah seems to be off the market, resigned to being alone. I think that's where a lot of her reserved nature comes from -- not having emotional connection to like-minded people (I mean, who the heck else in Roshar is a genius heretical defier of societal stereotype?). Not being able to trust people and really let go of her persona as a stone block. But maybe she'll find someone in the future, when she's Queen. I can see a good opportunity for character growth there. If she found a person who allowed her complete freedom and range of dictation, but supplied support and respect for her space as needed. Then again, I still think Jasnah's first allegiance would be to her kingdom, even if she loved a dude with everything she had. And at the first sign that her partner felt any opposition to that, she'd break off the relationship. Woah. If I'd spoken this, I'd be out of breath. Kudos to anyone who actually read this entire thing.