Rainier

I just promoted myself from boatswain to first mate, so you're welcome to have my role. Beware of the "cat," she seems much too smart, and also talks. I don't trust her, but she seems to know where the ship is headed. I don't really want to start listing the crew of the Good Ship Shalladin, but I totally do I'm a terrible liar ALL ABOARD!

I'm loving this conversation, but I'd like to throw another silver metal into the ring: silver. It's Allomantically inert, somehow, yet has huge significance on Threnody where it can repel shades. Vin also has a piece of silver jewelry at one point in Misborn. So why Aluminum and not Silver? Are we absolutely certain that Nightblood's sheath is aluminum? What role does Silver have yet to play that we don't know about?

As a true and loyal member of the crew on the SS Shalladin, I refuse to give up on my dream, and will go down with the ship, as it were.

Only if I'm a bad person for pointing it out exactly because it's funny. Imagine, Stormlight Archive on LSD. Talk about Stranger in a Strange Land.

I'm a fan of this thread, and the questions raised within. Simply put, the more we see Hoid on screen and the more he interacts with our main characters, the less satisfying it is unless we can understand him. We still don't understand him, so we have no basis to judge his motivations and thus have no lens in which to interpret his actions. Why is he in Kholinar? What is he there for, and what does he expect to do once he's accomplished his goal? You can ask the same questions for him in each of his appearances in every Cosmere story, but as his involvement increases, so do the expectations we have as readers. Right now, I think he's a poorly done character because his involvement has reached the point of distracting because we know so little about him. We need to know more about who he is and why he's doing what he's doing, specific to the story we read, in order to appreciate what's going on. I was fine with him dropping Adonalsium on Dalinar and hining at mysteries and motivations far beyond the scale of even Jasnah. What I'm not OK with is him acting as Shallan's therapist and becoming a Lightweaver while remaining the same strange, mysterious, inscrutable, and supposedly powerful figure. The more he acts as therapist and budding Radiant, the more we need to know about him. The less we know about him, the less we should see of him directly interacting and influencing the story. However, ultimately I've got enough from this book to keep me interested. Hoid, by his own admission, the kind of guy who runs alongside the boulder of time and, once in a while, tries to give it a little nudge. At the risk of stretching metaphors, he may also have been the one to push the boulder onto this particular path in the first place.

This, plus what @SLNC was saying earlier, are the reasons why I'm upset with this. This isn't a 10 book series about romance, it's a 10 book series about the apocalypse and people becoming gods to deal with it. Shallan is not primarily a romance figure, or even a woman. She's first and foremost a Lightweaver, just as every other Radiant is primarily an example of their order. That's the point of the series, that's the main source of all conflict, and that's what I'm expecting to pay off. Shallan marrying Adolin seems like Kaladin agreeing to murder Elhokar. I don't see how Shallan stays married to Adolin and keeps Pattern alive at the same time. Given her fractured personality on her very wedding day along with the Ghostbloods (Shallan's #2 most important role, by the way) wanting and assuming Veil is the real identity, I think Pattern's doomed. Granted, I expected it in this book, not the next one. I figured that Shallans conflicting responsibilities (to Adolin and Jasnah as Shallan, ward and betrothed; to the Ghostbloods as Veil, initiate; to the Radiants and Dalinar as the eponymous Radiant) would tear her apart leaving Pattern dead in her wake. I'm still of the opinion that this is where she's going, but by going through the marriage I'm afraid that it's just going to end these other threads. Here's what I think, summarized: 'Shallan' is a persona of True-Shallan that pretends to be OK. This is who Adolin marries. Pattern will die because True-Shallan can't reconcile her three dominant personalities. Kaladin, never seeing anything other than a single, complicated person, is the best romantic choice for True-Shallan, despite their contradictions and conflicts. If this truly is the end, and a happy end, Brandon isn't half the author I thought he was. Oh, and @PhineasGage is as much ship's cat as Mogget was just a cat along for the ride. I can't be the only one to have read Garth Nix Sabriel/Lirael/Abhorsen, can I? I'm quoting this for posterity, because if Brandon had LSD beliefs I think we'd get more theorizing on the nature of god and the universe and less on literal avatars of god duking it out.

Another day, another 2 pages on my favorite thread and another 20 reputation to give (mostly to @PhineasGage and @SLNC). I'm in agreement with @DeployParachute that pregnancy and a child should be the default assumption. I don't see the point of getting married if they weren't going to try for a child, and the break between books combined with Shallan's comments about a week suddenly being a long time makes me think that the pregnancy and birth will happen off-screen, or in the first part of book 4. Clearly most people here don't like that idea, but then it seems like this thread is for the crew of the good ship Shalladin to grieve their loss (if @PhineasGage is captain, can I be boatswain?) . Given what we have at the end of Oathbringer, what else can we expect going forward? There's widespread agreement that Shallan is still lying to herself and is still in trouble of breaking her oaths (which for Lightweavers would be believing her lies), and that there was too much foreshadowing of Shalladin for it to end so abruptly. So Shallan is married, but in trouble, with Kaladin still hanging around, and possibly a baby on the way. Nobody seems to expect divorce or adultery based on the character of the author, and partially based on the characters. However with Shallan separating into distinct personalities, I could definitely see Veil wanting to pursue Kaladin, while Radiant sees it as her duty to provide a child and an heir, with our broken Shallan moping about how horrible a mother she'll be.

I think the Ash/Taln is mirrored in Kal/Shallan, and that our main characters are going to take the places of our Heralds, so Kaladin and Shallan will end up being tortured in Damnation for the duration between books 5 and 6. I'll get behind Taln as soldier/bodyguard to Ask, and he fell in love.

I'm also behind Dawnshard. They're supposed to be weapons (or tools) of great power. Tanavast/Honor wondered how humanity would survive without the Dawnshards, and the only other mention we have of them mentions their ability to bind anyone/thing, "Voidish or mortal." My second guess is anti-Herald blades, as Splinters of Odium, although I doubt Odium would ever weaken himself in that manner. If this is the case, I propose we call them Damnshards, because that was a typo I just made in this very post that was apropos.

I don't know why, but something Teft said made me think he was Jezrien. Of course the reveal that Jezrien was a babbling drunk is close to Teft as a hopeless addict, but I'm still annoyed I got invested in Herald-as-squire. I'm also really glad that Teft said his third oath in a slightly different way. I never liked the way Kaladin said it, so to simplify the oath to I Will Protect Those I Hate was welcome to me.

No, I don't think so, although for some reason I thought it was a ship to travel through Shadesmar. Not sure why I thought this, because as far as I know Navani doesn't know much about Shadesmar, although it's plausible that Jasnah has talked with her about it before.

So the shard is Wisdom? Discretion is the better part of valor, and all that.

I noticed this too, but only when I went looking for which void-surge would replace Illumination. That combined with the fact that these two Orders are literally within a giant gem that we may have seen in OB, and I'm even more confused. When can we get an explanation of this chart and its images?

I'm pretty sure you're right here. She can't get Investiture normally, but she has another way that is unique to her. I think they're related, and that this gift came with some caveats.

Ah, so he's got the surge of Progression and one of the Void surges. But which one? The Turthwatchers are the lower half of the center in the Surgebinding page. The surge Renarin is missing is the one shared to the left, with the Lightweavers. However, unlike the Surgebinding page, the two center icons aren't connected to any surges, just to other 'Orders.' Does that mean the center two aren't Orders at all, or don't have surges, or aren't limited to only two surges? It's one thing to point to the page, it's another to translate it. To my knowledge we don't know what they mean.

Well, considering you need to fix an image and command in your mind to soulcast, like what Jasnah is doing, I'd say that Transformation is Cognitive because it occurs in the Cognitive Realm. The physical realm reflects the cognitive realm, but it's the change in Shadesmar that causes objects in the physical realm to actually change. With both Gravitation and Progression, it's less conscious thought and more instinct. Also those surges affect the physical realm directly. I'm not saying it's perfect, but Transformation is as good an example for a cognitive surge as I can ask for. It really is all cognition, even though the flashy effects are in the physical realm.

Very much like how Dalinar thinks of Evi, then. Sure, he grows fond of her, but his initial decision is one of duty and to get it out of the way.

I'm behind the dagger-as-Dawnshard, particularly with the poem mentioning its power to bind any creature. So if it is a Dawnshard, and Jezrien is bound within the Dawnshard, where are the others and what comes of it? Is Jezrien going to come back out, or is he really truly dead and gone forever? Was it just the investiture that was captured, while the soul was discarded?

Yes, it's this. What is he doing? Why is he doing it? How does he advance his goals in the few times we see him? What is he doing when he leaves?

I think this is the most likely scenario for their relationship deteriorating. Adolin, after all, has already called her out on making doe eyes at Kaladin, and has noticed Kaladin's interest in her as well. How long do you think he'll last being #3 in his own marriage? Frankly, it's Adolin that I'm most disappointed in. He knew what was up and chose to marry Shallan anyway. He called it, correctly, but then let Shallan essentially bully him into getting married. He knew that he had no place in that relationship, and Shallan really didn't do anything to contradict what he said, only praising Adolin's qualities, not dismissing Kaladin's appeal. If Adolin were smarter about relationships, he would be the one to put off the marriage. However, if Adolin were smarter about relationships, he'd long since be married, or would have never agreed to the causal in the first place. Sadly, one thing we know to be true is that Adolin is a dummy when it comes to women.

The tell was her story about running from responsibilities, like Vivenna avoided her responsibilities in Warbreaker. Even when she thought she was helping, she was actually doing what she wanted to do for herself, not what she needed to do for her kingdom. And now that she's on another world, she's not just abandoned her family, but her world. She's 100% from Nalthis, hence the name Azure, and the colorful idioms.

I think this is the biggest misconception. Skybreakers are not about law, or justice, or truth, or righteousness. They are about understanding and internalizing the fallibility of humans and the mind. It's about recognizing that no matter who you are, you are flawed and biased, so you cannot be trusted to judge things like when to use your powers and to benefit whom. The whole point of Skybreakers is subsuming your own judgement to something greater, but definitely external. Whether that's law or not is beside the point.

I think she's absolutely referring to Nightblood, as he's the only sword we see leaking smoke, or dark stormlight. I also agree wtih @asterion137 that what Vivenna is carrying is the Mk. 2 version of Nightblood. I'm not sure if she did it on her own, or had help from Yesteel, but I'm pretty certain that Vasher would have no part of it. He seems scarred by his creation of Nightblood and I doubt he would create more under any circumstances. Maybe that's what caused the falling out between Vivenna and Vasher: his unwillingness to teach her what he knew. Maybe she sought out Yesteel for further training in Awakening. We'll just have to wait for Warbreaker #2. I have no idea why the Nightwatcher would have possession of Nightblood, or if she ever did. Maybe the offer was an offer to lead him to the sword and guide him in its capture, not actually offering what she had in hand.

This is exactly what I'm seeing, and it's only clear at the end of book 3, but as you mentioned examples from books 1 and 2 support it. Taravangian is blind to his own plans, and we all know it. I'd expect him to continue to undermine our main characters, but for his actions to promote growth and development without dooming the world. That doesn't mean it will be bloodless, and I'm still scared shitless over his Releaser. She's the wild card in his hand.

This is my worst-case-scenario: that Brandon is secretly a bad writer and has been all along. I choose not to believe this (yet), so instead I choose to believe that what I interpreted as foreshadowing is, in fact, actual foreshadowing and not just poorly written dreck. Yeah, and following it with the first scene where someone actually sees Shallan for who she is and not who she wants to be seen as in the chasms makes me think it's deliberate. But the rushed ending of this book and the wedding (presumably consummated) makes me wonder otherwise.