Leyrann

This theory is getting so many upvotes that, even though it most likely isn't true (with that WoB and all), it should be.

The thing is, if the humans and singers are united and the Fused are gone, something else has to cause those sub-plots. And that would then be an enemy we haven't even seen hints of yet.

That won't be enough conflict for 5 SA-sized books. Something else will have to come into play.

I can't remember those two words being similar... Any chance you can find the scene it's part of?

Occam's Razor. I see no reason to assume it isn't. To our knowledge, the only atium still in existence is the atium owned by Marsh. As for the outlet... https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105-17th-shard-forum-qa/#e1155 To my knowledge we don't actually know. There's a bunch of theories around though.

This is, imo, the important distinction. To me, love isn't lust, but care. That certainly is the love of god the bible speaks about, which no doubt has been an influence for Brandon. I disagree. Passion is personally valuing something even if it may not actually be of value; I'm very passionate about (real-time example) the League of Legends World Championship, but there's absolutely zero ambition involved in that anywhere. Ambition, on the other hand is the drive to reach a 'better' place, often in a social context, like a higher-ranking job. Often, there's not a lot of passion required; you just try to be the best and advance. One might have the ambition to play a big role in politics for example. You don't actually need to be passionate about it; I think we can all name some politicians that we don't believe are passionate (we might name different ones though, so lets not actually do it), yet their ambition still brought them to their position.

What I dislike about this theory is that it feels too... random. I mean, they're all viable ideas that might occur, but there's no reason why this would occur, and not something else. Compare (WHEEL OF TIME SPOILERS) how the body swap between Rand and Moridin was foreshadowed through their bond and a number of other things to the point that basically everyone in the fandom was already convinced it would happen, and the question one of how it would happen, and some of these things (like the formation of the bond) go back all the way to book 7, which would be roundabout the point where we are in the Cosmere timeline; with the difference that Brandon is even more of a planner than Robert Jordan, and will therefore likely have even earlier foreshadowing. So I'd kind of want to see WoBs or possible lines from the books that foreshadow something like this.

I completely disagree with Honor being "Passion" and, in the context that Rayse considers it, I also disagree with Ambition being "Passion", as Rayse seems to consider it to be "strong emotion". In fact, I would argue that Devotion might not fit either; I consider Devotion to be a calm force, while Passion is a wild one. Not unlike Soothing versus Rioting.

The thing is, Autonomy hasn't appeared in any way yet in Stormlight Archive, so she's no more likely than a shard we don't know about yet, as we know Brandon wants his series (including Stormlight Archive) to stand on themselves as much as possible.

There could also be another Shard coming into play if Odium is defeated, right? I do agree that there's something going to happen, and in fact I wrote a (disproven) theory about it. If you compare with something like Mistborn, where it takes until the third book until you actually get to know Ruin and Preservation, it just doesn't make sense that we have all the pieces visible already in Stormlight Archive - Brandon likes his (well-foreshadowed) surprises far too much. There's also the theory floating around that Roshar (the planet) is going to be destroyed at some point - perhaps even at the end of book 5 already. The second half of the series would then play on Ashyn, Braize (I believe we actually have it confirmed that the back half of the series will have scenes playing on Braize, though this could just be Herald flashbacks) or even Nalthis, as there's a few ties between Roshar and Nalthis already.

Before anything else, it's in your best interests to not accept Elephant Earwax' cookies, or anything else he offers. You've been warned. As for the best compounded metal... Gold is great, of course, as it turns you functionally immortal. If available, however, atium would be preferable above that - you could die to wounds or the like, but you won't age, meaning you can extend your life span much longer than normal - the one thing gold can't do, as you'll keep aging. Chromium is also potentially very interesting, as fortune seems to allow you to do some interesting things by knowing exactly what's going to happen in the future. Always being able to anticipate anything could be a very useful skill to have. With enough of it, you might even be able to emulate gold's effect in a different way - you'll be able to avoid getting hit in the first place.

Why do you think Autonomy would come in though, rather than someone else, or Odium lasting the entire Stormlight Archive?

@Fanghur Rahl I think I also speak for Quantus and Calderis when I say that it's not the definition of the Shards we disagree on, but rather that they would make a grouping of 3. Groupings in Shards are logically 2, 4 or even 8, as those are numbers you can divide 16 by. If you would include groups of 3, you would have a significant asymmetry somewhere, which would mean: 1. A bit of an 'ugly' coordination. It just doesn't feel nice to look at something and have it be asymmetrical. As Quantus said, aesthetically unpleasing. 2. A, to one degree or another, uneven split of Adonalsium, making the 16-way split look coincidental rather than it's neat 2*2*2*2. 3. It's against how Brandon works. His trilogy of trilogies (which admittedly got messed up), the metallic arts, surgebinding, the 10 Stormlight Archive books and even symmetry being so important in Vorin culture all speak to how much he likes symmetry. It would be strange for him to abandon that in a centerpiece of his overarching magnum epos. So from all three of an artistic position, mathematical position, and (Cosmere-)writer position it simply doesn't make sense.

Most likely? They took the name 17th Shard upon themselves and none of the Shards was bothered by it enough to tell them off for it.

I was arguing that if the Shards can be grouped into subgroups, then it'll be in groups of two, four or eight, simply because those are the logical groups when you have 16 Shards. Juts like the metals in allomancy are in four groups of four, and in feruchemy they are in two groups of four and one group of eight. Oh, I'm not saying that. I just don't think that those three make some kind of basic trio or something.

So I can't find the WoB (I spent a good ten minutes looking for it), but Brandon has said somewhere that Ati's vision of Ruin was "one of the better versions of Ruin possible". Agreed. That is, in my view, what change without a purpose is. Again, agreed. I don't think that makes them opposite, however, as they are both about change, it's just that Cultivation only changes certain things. Note that I don't necessarily agree with this. I just think that, if we can order the Shards, it will be in groups of two, four or eight. Otherwise it's just going to become too arbitrary. It's like having sixteen metals with three groups of 3, then a group of 5 and then two unconnected to anything; something like that. Just doesn't make sense. Also something I doubt, again see that theory I linked for what I believe to be true. I'm not trying to make a point at the moment, mostly just arguing against the Preservation-Ruin-Cultivation trio you mentioned. What's the point you thought I wanted to make?

I consider Ruin and Preservation to be hard opposites (the strongest opposites in the entire roster), while I consider Cultivation to be a different force that, like Ruin, also aims for change (and is therefore opposed to Preservation) but, contrary to Ruin, aims for changes of a specific kind (in this case, directed growth) rather than any change. I'm not familiar with Hinduism, but I don't see why these three Shards - or any Shards - should have direct equivalents in the real world. On top of that, the Cosmere - and in particular the Shards - are 16-centric, so if one were to make groups, groups of 4 would make much more sense than groups of 3. I also want to point out that "Decay" is arguably just Ati's interpretation of Ruin's Intent; wanton destruction instead of natural decay could also have been an interpretation.

I fundamentally disagree.

It was a bit higher up than I thought:

Somewhere around post 15.

The chunk Preservation had removed from Ruin was the atium, so I think it's safe to assume that, in physical form, the chunk is equal to all the atium there is. Which, I would say, is quite a bit larger than Nightblood.

Yes, he's called Bearer of the First Gem there. We don't hear anything else about the First Gem however, and we have no idea what it is. (Cephandrius is Hoid by the way, yes) Best way to find more is probably to just search "weapon adonalsium" on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=weapon+adonalsium

It means RShara completely countered the theory with a single WoB. I got the inspiration for the term from this post.

Hasn't Brandon said there have been multiple immigration waves to Roshar?

Uhm, the in-world 17thshard is actually named after us, implying the name may have been taken simply because it sounds good (because let's be real, it does). And haven't they been founded by Khriss?