Hischier

I'll disagree here. I actually think the threat is elevated a good amount. The Voidbringers we saw in WoR weren't that intimidating to me. It almost seemed like it was too easy. In that sense I think the threat is much greater now. Mr T. is also a much scarier threat. But the sense of mystery is definitely gone. It's a really tough balancing act for Brandon though. He's created some fantastic characters in this series. That shouldn't be a bad thing and it's not, but it does mean that I am more interested in what happens to specific characters than I am about other things going on. It's not ASoI&F, or even close to that, where at times you almost wonder if the looming threat is even really relevant, but to me, Odium showing up almost seems like a distraction in a weird way.

Maybe a re-read will improve my opinion of Oathbringer. I enjoyed this book but I didn't love it. I gave it a 6/10 whereas WoKs and WoR are both 10/10s.

Overall, I liked the book but it didn't blow me away like the first two did. My main complaints were with a lot of things being set-up and then fizzling out. The love triangle, Adolin murdering Sadeas, Elhokar's death should've had a more lasting impact to me, Ialai I thought was going to be more of a threat, a few other things I'm probably forgetting. I didn't mind the secret of the Recreance being what it was. It makes sense that it happened well after the 'Final Desolation' and it went along with the theme of the book. Jasnah, Lift, Hoid, and Dalinar were all awesome. I'm not a big Renarin mark but I loved the twist there. I also thought the bait and switch with Eshonai and Venli was well done. While I enjoyed the bridge 4 perspectives, I probably would've kept it to Teft and Rlain. Syl and Pattern continue to steal the show for me, especially Syl. Wish there had been more interaction between Syl and Pattern though while we had the chance. Adolin didn't feel like he had much going on to me. All of the other characters had such powerful inner conflicts and he's basically perfect. I like Adolin and not every character needs a major arc, but I just would've cut some of his viewpoints in favor of other characters. Kalladin is my favorite character by far so I am biased here, but I would've liked to see more from his POV during Shadesmar. I thought his arc was solid overall, but even from his perspective the whole Shalladin was disappointing. Halfway through it's set up to make you think he's in love with Shallan and right when Shallan chooses Adolin he realizes that she just reminds him of his brother? That's awfully convenient (my opinion is he's lying to himself there). I just wish something would go right for him (just not a way too convenient new love interest just to give him one). Next book he's probably going to find out his parents have been murdered though. Shallan has always been a little annoying to me, but I thought her character arc had a the potential to go in a lot of really cool ways. I think it would've been a lot stronger if there were more consequences to her split personality thing. That was set up so well, but it was a lot of almost to me, so I hope there's more to that going forward. It is left kind of ambiguous at the end there. Like, she thinks she's getting better but I didn't really get that impression. I figured out who Vivenna was really quickly. She was great but I think she got a little too much screen time for her first appearance in the story. That's a lot of complaining about stuff, for a book I still enjoyed. So I'll end with how much I loved Dalinar's story in this one. It was really fantastic.

This was probably my main irritation with the book. I was mildly disappointed about Shallan and Adolin ending up together (not going to get into that). But forgetting that, the whole thing just seemed kind of unnecessary. If you're not even going to explore the other side of it, why even bother with it? It wasn't really important to the plot in any way and didn't really have any pay off. I wonder if a few scenes got cut out that would've made that arc make more sense because the extent of the conflict being 'she gave Kaladin 'do me' eyes' is pretty lame both from Shallan's perspective as an inner conflict and definitely from Adolin's perspective considering he's known for having a wandering eye.

I've been wondering about that too (although I haven't read any of the WoK prime stuff so I didn't know it was in the earlier version). I thought it had to be important somehow since otherwise the scene where Adolin forgets/loses it before the duel is kind of pointless (unless it was only there to be foreshadowing that things were about to go wrong). After that, however, it's never brought up again. That might not mean anything, but if it were important somehow I would think it'd be at least mentioned in passing. I hope it is somehow important though.

She didn't think. She wasn't going for attempted suicide, she was going for accident.

I wonder if Kaladin ever makes it back to Urithiru during Oathbringer (at least before the end of the book). I get the feeling Adolin gets found out before Kaladin makes it back.

I'm looking forward to seeing Jasnah and Hoid at some point. Lift is an obvious choice as well. I'm not a huge Lopen fan (he's fine, but I just don't have the same love for him others on here do), but I do want to see bridge four again soon. Especially Sigzil, Rock and Teft. I voted other for Teft.

Don't think it matters. What matters is the part about experience, which makes the author non-Vorin and probably someone from Rira or Iri. Plot twist, the author is Evi.

I don't know about that. Giving someone who could become a Radiant a blade that has all of the power of a Windrunner, but doesn't require their oaths seems like a bad idea.

No, I don't expect him to suffer from it, I do expect it to be something he has to adjust to though. That doesn't make him flawed or imply desire for power, or jealousy or any other such character traits. And if he did start to feel a little jealous that still wouldn't be unexpected. Who wouldn't with his father, brother, fiancee, cousin and even the guard Captain all manifesting superpowers? Just like feeling fear doesn't make someone a coward, feeling suddenly unimportant or even a little jealous wouldn't make him bitter, resentful or entitled or anything else. Also, nothing I said implied I expect his character to remain static. I doubt Renarin will be following Adolin around during battles all of the time so it'll probably still be a concern.

I don't really want him to become a radiant. I think there's a really interesting story to tell about Adolin the way he is. He was always near the top of the food chain and finding himself surrounded by super-powered individuals all of which (so far) are either members of or closely tied to his family has to be a dramatic shift for him. It also makes sense to give the reader's perspective. If most of the battle scenes going forward are from Kaladin's (and other Radiants) POV, our main view of the fighting will be from a character who is almost impossible to kill. It makes sense to give the readers a view from the trenches. In this case in the form of a skilled warrior who doesn't have super-powers. Plus, BS can't just keep having people's stormlight run out every time he wants to up the tension (it's a very reasonable issue that the characters will likely continue to face, but you can only go back to that well so many times in crucial moments).

I find that pretty odd. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you get to claim ownership of theories like that. I think you'd have to write out specific scenes or outline a plot detailed enough that the writer(s) couldn't reasonably claim to have come up with the story independently for it to become an issue. It really doesn't make sense otherwise. And not reading a ton of fan theories or opinions on your work (especially anonymous ones) is just a healthy way to go about your life for anyone famous enough that other people talk about their performance/work publicly. That's for a number of reasons but I'd hazard a guess that if plausible deniability is on most writers' lists, it's near the bottom.

It wasn't expressly stated, but that was my interpretation as well. It'll be a slow process though and It's something I expect him to struggle with still, but not to the extent we saw in WoR.

Can you link the new annotations? I can't find them.

This has to be it. It makes too much sense to the story and fits with what we know about Shallan. Because she had to have been broken before to have bonded Pattern and had a shard blade (which makes me wonder what kind of truths a 12 year old would've had to speak to advance) and one would assume that for her to advance further in her oaths she'd have to speak more powerful truths.

Then isn't it better to confine it to it's own section instead of having it clutter the main chapter thread? That way people who do want to discuss it can and those who don't don't have to read 200 posts about it.

This is an interesting topic in itself. Kaladin is my favorite character by far in the series. Kaladin has a lot of admirable traits that I respect, but I think his character growth and his flaws are what make him a very interesting character. Adolin, on the other hand, is a more likable person and also a good character, but my interest in his arc is mostly plot driven. Basically I like Kaladin better as a character but I'd rather be friends with Adolin. That's probably part of why I like Shaladin but it also has to do with how Shallan and Kaladin interact. Their interaction brought out parts of each other that I think made each of them more likable characters (as an aside, the scene with them throwing insults at each other in a crowded hallway like 12 year-olds was my favorite comedy scene in the series so far). In Kaladin's case it was pretty obvious: beginning to get over his prejudice against lighteyes (although I think he still has a ways to go there). In Shallan's case, it was one of the few interactions with another character where it didn't feel like she was playing a role. Partly because Kaladin saw through that and called her out on it. I can understand why she does what she does and I actually empathize with it, but it still bugs me when she deals with someone like Dalinar, for example who's exactly the opposite in terms of being completely genuine and honest. In her more recent interactions with Adolin, it's less that she's playing a role, but she's still hiding herself. I'd rather see Adolin with someone more genuine.

@KidWayne Ok, point taken. What they did could have been the right thing for them to do. I don't think I buy that that's the case here though. But anyway back to Mr. T.

I've seen this mentioned a number of times now and I have a question about it. Do the spren have a choice in the matter? There's a WoB saying that if Kaladin breaks his oath again, Syl would become a shard blade. So she can't just peace out, right? And if nothing the Knights did was against their oaths up until they willingly broke the bond, then they'd have had their powers until that moment. Even choosing to purposefully break their bonds might not've been against their oaths. I don't know that we have enough info to know for a fact that the spren were complicit in it, even though they obviously had to know what was going to happen. This is a quote from the Feverstone Keep chapter right after the Knights abandoned their spren:

1. Because of the context it's in. It's at the very end of the chapter at the beginning of a book and you have the Shallan promising something she has no control over (when a parent in a movie promises their kid that everything's going to be ok, it never ends up being ok). Either that's a huge misdirect or it's obvious foreshadowing and given that Brandon has set up a love triangle, it'd feel like a lot of work to not at least temporarily have a falling out between them. 2. To be fair, when they first meet they do spend a good amount of time admiring each other's hair.

They weren't acting honorably. Maybe they had a good reason for why they did what they did, or at least one that we'll be able to empathize with once we know what caused the Recreance, but breaking their bonds and leaving the weapons out for everyone to grab and start killing each other with is in no way honorable. And we don't know the Knight's side of the story but we have the perspective of the Stormfather who no longer trusts humans and feels betrayed by them to the point where he refuses the honorspren to form bonds, and we have Syl's admittedly vague memory when Kaladin asks her what changed (presumably referring to the Recreance) and she replies 'the knights did' or something close to that.

First, I'm not going to comment on the shipping wars other than to say that these are the first chapters where I actually understand why people like Shadolin. In the past I thought the two were really awkward together, and well I'll leave it at that right now. Now, this is a general comment not something specific to the relationship thing. While I get that part of why people love Brandon's work is that he is very good at doing the unexpected, just because something isn't completely original doesn't make it bad. Sometimes the expected thing makes for the best story. If you can pull it off with compelling characters and make other parts of the story original (such as Roshar which is a very interesting and magical setting) I'll take that over a story with a convoluted twist. Also, even in the most original story some big parts of a story are going to be tropes and that's perfectly fine. Basically what I'm saying is expected isn't a synonym for dull, and original doesn't always or even usually equal good.

I never said it was distracting.

Oh, I didn't think she'd have found anything yet, just that it'd be mentioned that she was looking for a library or that someone was anyway.