Brightlord M. Alhstrom

Well, how about this: Why now? Why did it take 4500 years for the Desolations to come back? What if Odium realized that the balance was against him, and also found out about Hemalurgy, right about the same time that the Heralds leave. So, he plots: Find a way to incapacitate the Heralds without killing them. And he finds convoluted ways to spike them. After all, it may have taken him 4500 years. And 4500 years is a REALLY long time. But I do agree, at this point, it is a lot of a stretch. I'm not saying that the Heralds are spiked. There isn't enough to know. I'm just saying that it is possible. I'll have to try to get a couple of WoB supporting it first.

Yea.... I didn't think a discussion on Hemalurgy on Roshar was appropriate for the SA forum. Wow. I didn't not know that. Thanks. I guess that does put a wrench in my plans. Though if Ruin was able to influence people enough to spike Vin, etc, then I wouldn't be surprised if over 4500 years, Odium did too. Plus, we have WoBs about Odium knowing about Harmony. And if he knows about Harmony, why not about Hemalurgy?

As for that, I'm not sure but I have a couple of ideas. As for the certain character, remember, this is the Cosmere Theories forum. Spoilers are fine. I think that to avoid someone taking advantage of the back door, with Ironeyes what is going on is that Harmony is "in control" while leaving him with free agency. Someone would have to wrestle control from someone who is arguable the most powerful entity alive to control him. At least, that's what I think is going on. As for who? The Unmade are still walking around, and they could probably attract some accomplices. And once you have a single spike, adding 3 more wouldn't be too much of a problem. Also, Odium would have a solid 4500 years to spike them. 4500!. He is bound to have had opportunities. As for giving them powers, not all Hemalurgical spikes have powers, as seen by the spikes used by the Koloss. A hemalurgical spike just requires the death of a human.

Hahahaha. Yea. Thanks for that. Isn't the first time I've done that, though it is the first time on the forums (I think). At the same time, the name Oathbinders would also fit the pattern of Radiant Order names, and it is fairly close to Bondsmith in a couple of ways (Dalinar's Sword, 3rd book Title, near synonym) that I think I can be excused. And yea..... I'm really looking forward to Oathbringer.

Thats my point. Spiked Heralds doesn't have to be an obvious use of Hemalurgy. Brandon could easily just leave it unexplained why they are insane, and the story wouldn't be detracted. However, in his fashion, he would also leave a hint or two so that the 17th Sharders here would figure it out. Again, one of the ways to start merging the different stories together without making it a prerequisite for understanding the story. I mean, if he can openly throw in Nightblood, why not a couple hidden spikes?

Thanks for that. I guess that puts the Mightnight Essense with a strong correlation with the Skybreakers then.

I kinda like that, though I'd say Top and Bottom instead of Left and Right. The reason why I say this is because Progression (Regrowth) is on the Bottom Right, and is definitely more of a Cultivation quality than an Honor quality. Also, Bindsmith are right above Truthwatchers in the Double Eye, not side by side, so a horizontal split makes more sense than a vertical one. And thanks. I had already looked at the 10 orders being split in two, though I'd never thought of splitting them by Cultivation vs Honor. Edit: Thanks Calderis for catching my use of Oathbinders instead of Bondsmith.

Actually, what do we know about smokestone? I can't find anything on google. For all we know, it actually is steely purple, and the reason it is called a smokestone is because of how it is related to smoke through Fabrials. I mean, fabrials have enough influence on gem culture on roshar for their value to be based on how useful the gem is in soulcasting, why not having a similar effect on their names? Though if you have any places where the colors, or eyes of a Skybreaker are described, or if the book mentions the color of smokestone, then by all means correct me.

For the Wiki, so not completely trustworthy, but it's better than writing it myself: The back door isn't only accessible by Ruin. TLR used it, and any Allomancer can also use it, given enough power. It doesn't seem like much of a stretch at all for another Shard to learn how to do the same thing. From what I can understand, Preservation had the ability to read minds, and Ruin to project into minds, with that being strengthened through Hemalurgy, making his voice stronger.

Except that when you look at the symbols in the double eye, the symbol for the Skybreakers is actually a grayish purple, halfway between the Purple of the Willshapers and the Gray of the Edgedancers. As for the 10 Deaths, the only quote I have found for them is here: Whether the Ten Deaths simply roamed around, or were tied to the Desolations, I'm not sure. However, in the same chapter, one of the radiants seems to think that the Midnight Essences being there is a confirming sign of a desolation coming.

Minor edgedancer spoilers: Um.... Let's keep in mind that Taln is the Herald who was left behind. It would make sense for him to only show up when the desolation starts, and for him to announce himself as the Herald of War. That's his job. To be a Herald. I think we are just seeing Taln keep doing his job, seeing as he isn't one of the Heralds who walked away.

REVISED THEORY: OK, rereading WoK, and I think I can actually change this to make it more supportable. During the Prelude, I don't see the signs of insanity in either Kalak or Jezrien. Plus, as Heralds, would they have been trusted by the KR during the desolation in they were as obviously insane as some of them seem in both WoK and WoR? I suspect that they might have gone insane after they left the oathpact, during the 4500 years between the prelude and the start of WoK. If this is the case, then the spike theory makes a lot more sense. So, here is the revised one: The Heralds (minus Talenel) were each spiked one by one over 4500 years. Small spikes, and in situations similar to the spiking of either Spook, Vin or Penrod, where the spike was left in the body for Medical, Emotional or other reasons. Then Odium would be able to use the back door to start twisting their minds. As for arguments about this being something that wouldn't work since you shouldn't need to read Mistborn to understand Stormlight Archives, I think this still works. SA might never explain how the Heralds went insane, though we might still see a couple easter eggs of an earring or metal in a Herald's body. And we also know that SA is supposed to start bringing the several worlds together more and more, which is why we see so many Worldhoppers. I mean, if we can see Kandra in SA, then why not a couple of spiked Heralds?

OK, so far as we can tell, there were only 3 bondsmith (or at the very least, a very small number) who were bonded to special spren (like the stormfather). They were leaders among the radiants, binding them together. However, in watching the following picture, you notice that the symbols of both the Bondsmith and the Truthwatchers are in the center, connected with the other 8 orders. Can we take this to mean that the Truthwatchers also have a leadership role, or at least unifying role, within the orders? Maybe just a pivotal one? Renarin claims he can see the future. And there is a quote about how Truthwatchers were an aloft order, but not from disdain, but from tact. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into this, and it just happens that they both were in the center of the double eye.

OK. Rereading WoK, so I have a bunch to add. For one thing, Brandon says that we have seen the last stage of the Chasmfiend lifecycle. He doesn't say that the chasmfiend hunted by the Alethi is the last stage. Just that we have seen it. For all we know, we saw the final stage in one of Dalinars visions, or in the Prelude, or in one of the paintings. He says that we have mostly seen the 2nd and 3rd stages. But nothing implies that there aren't 4 or 5 stages. I don't think it's right. I'm just saying that it's possible. Also, something in support of Chasmfiend becoming Thunderclast, or at least some sort of desolation species: Blood. Chasmfiend have Purple ichor (as seen when Adolin carves out the gemheart after the battle when Dalinar loses him taste for war). Parshendi have orange blood (also seen in that battle). During the prelude, Kalak describes there being Red, Orange and Violet blood on the battlefield, and that not all of the bodies were human. I'm asuming that the red blood is human, and that the violet and orange blood belong either to Parshendi, Chasmfiend, or at least to related species. Though it could also belong to Aimians, though I'm not sure they would count as non-humans. One last thing, in Dalianr's first vision (that we see at least) one of the radiants mentions the 10 deaths. I suspect that there are 10 species that plague mankind during Desolations, and that the KR referred to them as the 10 deaths. If so, I have a sneaky suspicion that the species each have different color blood, each one having one of the 10 colors tied to the radiants. It would just be really cool. So far you would have Chasmiend with the purple of the Willshapers, and Parshendi with the orange of the Stonewards or Dustbringers. And possibly the Midnight Essence with the gray of the Edgedancers.

Interesting. Kinda ruins my argument a little. But it could also tie the Aimians to the Listeners, as well as the Chasmfiend.

When the 9 Herald left the oathpact during the Prelude, were they already insane? Or was the insanity something that came over the 4500 years that came later? Other than Talenel, did their insanity come while they were being tortured in the place they return to between desolations? Parshendi blood is orange. Chasmfiend ichor is purple.The Prelude mentions bodies strewn about, some of which aren't human. Three different colours of blood are mentioned: Red, Orange and Violet. Is the Red blood Human, the Orange blood Parshendi, and the Violet blood Chasmfiend? If no, then which ones are wrong?

Or simply wounding him over and over until he runs out of gold. I mean, sometimes the simplest answer really is the better one. I can think of a couple of ways. Drop a huge weight on him: He might be able to heal himself enough to not die, keeping him for just splattering, but constant healing on that scale would burn out fairly quickly. Remember, Compounding means that you pull out more health from a metalmind you burn then you put into it. Doesn't mean you have unlimited healing. Another one? Tie him up with manacles, then put him in a furnace. Even if it isn't a crazy hot fire, he'd have to heal pretty much his entire surface area constantly, again, burning through his huge reserves. You get the idea.

Yea...... as I said before, if he had parshendi blood, then why did it take his losing an eye for him to see the spren? And why only where the eye is missing?

Yea, I noticed this too. As well as how the same paragraph that mentions it being hidden in Jah Keved mentions a story of the nightwatcher giving the black sphere to someone. Is this a hint that Gavilar might have gotten the orb from the Nightwatcher?

Actually, here is a passage from WoR that would imply that the Shin (or at least Szeth) worship both the sun and the stars: As for Trell and Nalt, I have a suspicion that if Trell is in fact Bavadin, then that Nalt is also Bavadin. After all, we have this WoB: What if Brandon is misleading us here. Google defines Pantheon as "all the gods of a people or religion collectively." So, technically for Trelagism, "every member" is just Trell and Nalt. So what if Bavadin created this religion around the Sun and the Stars as a means of setting up followers and fanatics around various planets. On Scadrial it's Trelagism. On Roshar it could be the Shin religion. I'm also fairly sure that there is a WoB somewhere about Bavadin appearing to people. If so, then that would mean that she would be able to set up these religions directly, which would explain why you would have two very similar religions on both Roshar and Scadrial. Might also be worth looking at the religion of the Pure lakers, as it sounded very similar. Though that might make sense if the Pure Lake is a perpendicularity, and thus you would have world-hopping based culture corruption going on. Maybe even by some Trelagists directly. And it is interesting how Bavadin's investiture is spread through the light that leaves Taldain's sun, which would explain why her religion would include respect for both the sun and the stars (as Taldain's sun is a star to everyone else)

Can people try and keep track of the path of the Black crystalline sphere that Gavilar gave to Szeth? Did the books ever explain what happened with it? Also, it would be nice to compile a complete list of all non-standard species on Roshar. For example, the copper-mind doesn't mention Songlings, as far as I can tell, though they are mentioned in second chapter of the first interlude in WoK.

Yea, I doubt that he is of Horneater origin. If he was, then why did it take him this long to see Syl. As for his missing an eye leading to his seeing spren, I can't take that, at least not on it's own. There has to be a realmatic reason behind it. I'm not sure what it is about Horneaters, but something in their history gave them that, and there is a realmatic reason for it. Now, I'm not saying that he has to be a Radiant. That's just the simplest explanation. There could be others that we aren't aware. Actually, even if he isn't a Horneater (or of Horneater decent) the fact that Horneaters can see radiantspren implies that there is a way for a non-radiant to gain that ability, which can be handed down through genetics. So maybe (and this is a long stretch) Gaz got the ability to sense spren the same way the original horneaters did. Or he isn't seeing spren at all, but something else we haven't seen.

Sorry, but would you mind relieving me of my ignorance? What exactly is the Shin phenomenon?

The 1st and 6th Heightening allow you to sense and measure breaths in people and awakened objects. Would they also allow you to sense and measure other forms of investiture? Would someone with the 1st Heightening be able to sense how much stormlight a radiant has, or how much metal a misting has? Would someone with the 6th Heightening be able to tell how much stormlight is in a gem, or how charged some sand is?

It doesn't. But we suspect that the reason he is still alive in AoL is because he is compounding Atium. So even if he didn't know how to Compound in WoA and HoA, we figure that he knows how to compound by the time AoL rolls around. That's where Atium comes in. PS: Do we have a WoB telling us that Marsh is compounding Atium to stay alive?