Jonathon

Why?

I'm not entirely sure why we can't see Sel in the CR, but I don't think we have enough evidence to figure out why not. I don't believe that Raoden found a way to move the shards out of the CR because according to Kriss at the time that AU was written the CR of Sel was still dangerous to travel through and that takes place after the Elantris books. I actually made the same mistake on another thread

Thanks Calderis!

I don't know how to find the exact WOB but there's one that states that odium is alive after the end of the first arc, but isn't strictly worded so as to leave open the possibility that he may or may not have a different vessel

My apologies! Thank you for shining (de)Light on the situation and helping me realize that I was [ful]l of mistakes. That makes you a wonderful person!

You are as your name suggests -- simply delightful!

Your face is awesome. And even though I can't see it, I know it's the truth

I'm on here as procrastination For is there any better sensation? To jump theory to theory And asking a query Instead of being at a work station

He Organizes Investiture Dutifully Hiding observable invested devices Hoping odium is dead Hopping obviously isn't dreadful Hrathen opened infinite doors Harbledy obbledy ibbledy doo Historic observer, investiture Diviner Hoid Oid Id D Hiding Old Investiture Deposits Hey! Obviously I'm Done!

You're probably right @Calderis however I'm naturally a very stubborn person so if I find anything else in my re-read to support my theory, I'll be back so that you can prove me wrong.

The reason I'm so skeptical about Galladon being recruited after Elantris is because he doesn't really have anything to off the seventeenth shard. I mean sure he's Elantris now, but so are soooo many other people. Before he was taken by the shaod he said he used to be a farmer so why would the shard view someone with farming skills as a valuable asset?

So I just started my first re-read of Elantris, and only got through the first chapter when I had an idea. We know Galladon joined the 17th shard and that he's a worldhopper, but has anyone considered the possibility that Galladon joined the shard before the events of Elantris? Admittedly I don't have much reasoning behind this half-baked theory, it just caught me as suspicious the way that Galladon conveniently was the first (mom-ravenous) person that Raoden encountered. And then even more so when it's saying how Raoden didn't know why but he liked and trusted Galladon. Perhaps Galladon was working for the shard and when he got taken by the Shaod they wanted him to figure out how to restore Elantris for some reason. This could explain why 1. He didn't want to work with Raoden at first since he didn't know who he was or what he was trying to do and 2. Why his home is in a little library thing with a bunch of books. Let me know what you think

There are first two main things I'd like to note about your theories: 1) I agree that odium is likely not the big bad of the cosmere, but I don't think he's being used as a puppet either. Odium's goals are his own and I don't think that he'd let himself be manipulated by anything else. Also, it is still relatively early in the grand scheme of the cosmere so I doubt the main "big bad" will be revealed so early anyway. 2) I don't really know what you mean by Hoid recruiting an army from the spiritual realm. If you mean you want him to get an army of dead people, that isn't he spiritual realm, the souls of the dead go to the beyond (which we have very little information about). We've even had mention of a being known as The God Beyond, which brings me to my next point. I believe the god beyond will have some role to play in the future of the cosmere and it likely had an important role in the past of the cosmere as well. Whether it will be a positive or negative influence is yet to be seen, but I'm leaning towards negative. For all we know the God Beyond is responsible for the force attackjng scadrial, however I find it unlikely that Trell is the God Beyond. Perhaps the God Beyond had something to do with the creation of the cosmere or maybe even adonalsium itself. Then adonalsium betrayed it and that's why the God Beyond is confined to the Beyond instead of existing in one of the three main realms of the cosmere. This could lead to the God Beyond being a major competitor sometime in the future. Now about mistborn 4, I believe you're right and it will have something to do with Yolen since it is A. Towards the end of the cosmere sequence and B. Has Hoid as a major player in that era. I also think that there's a chance Hoid, or someone else, is trying to rebuild adonalsium in one way or another. We've seen Hoid going around trying to gather investiture from different shardic systems (allomancy from scadrial, he tried--and failed--to become an Elantrian, etc.). We know that Kelsier couldn't hold preservation for long because he wasn't very connected, so what if Hoid is trying to gain connection to each of the shards to be able to one day take them all up for some purpose?

Maybe when Hoid was "offered" a shard he actually took it up at first, but then realized that this wasn't what he wanted to happen, and so he released the shard and thus became a sliver. Perhaps there was some kind of information that holding a shard of adonalsium allowed him to know, and it wasn't something he liked. Now, maybe his entire quest throughout all of the cosmere books has something to do with whatever information he learned.

As you said we know that Hoid was "offered" a shard, but what I want to know is, what exactly does that mean? If the shards were just laying there waiting for someone to come along become the bearer, then why wouldn't any of the originals have tried to take multiple shards? What if when the shattering occurred and Adonalsium was split into sixteen intents, for a split second before they were taken up by one of the shatterers (is that a word?) they each tried to gain sentience as we know loose investiture will try to do. Then with their sentence they each sought out and offered themselves to select individuals amongst the shatterers because the shards believed them to be the best suited. That could explain why Rayse, who was already cunning and dangerous before the shattering, could have ended up with a shard like odium, if odium chose him knowing that his cunning would be useful. We also know that Ati wasn't very attuned to ruin before taking it up so that could mean that if the shards got turned down, they might've turned desperate for a holder. Perhaps one of the shards such as autonomy or ambition (or maybe even one of our unknowns) offered itself to Hoid, but for some reason or another (likely the ones you stated) Hoid refused it so it had to choose another holder. If this situation played out with ambition it could explain why ambition *fled* from odium which isn't a very ambitious thing to do, regardless of whether you know you'll lose or not. Basically, I'm agreeing with parts of your theory and adding a bit of my own.

How this man FINALLY lost his Wit! Interview with the survivor with his advice on surviving What one man did to protect his island from invaders will ASTOUND you! The REAL reason why these women need to stay quiet in the woods...

You know you're a sanderfan when your friends are afraid of silly things like the dark or spiders, while your greatest fear is that Brandon will die before finishing the cosmere, but ask someone else to continue it, only they can't find his notes so they don't know what to do...

Mraize.

Do you mean as a hostage type situation? Or more of a 'here let me help you out' kind of thing? Either way I find this unlikely because the scene where Hoid jumps into the shardpool at the end of Elantris mentions nothing about Galladon, only the skaze he was talking too. The only way that Hoid could have taken him is if he had Galladon go through the shardpool first and then the scene with the Skaze happened, or if he came back to Sel after originally leaving which I also find unlikely due to the danger that the CR presents. What likely happened is that the 17th sharders helped Galladon after he joined, although when we see Galladon in SA, that is admittedly a long time after the events of Elantris, so who knows what happened by then. With the knowledge that there will be a couple more Elantris books that could mean that somehow they reformed the splintered shards or something to make the cognitive realm easier to traverse, couldn't it?

The dueler was called adolin Shardblade and shardplate he did win 'til he couldn't fight back He was under attack But was saved by a bridgeman, Kaladin Brandon, he laughs at our theories He reads and finds out all our queries But one day he'll slip His facade we will chip We'll learn about all of his series' Limericks are fun to write but sometimes they put up a fight the rhymes don't come easy they often sound cheesy but in the end, it comes out alright

I like this idea but I don't think it is possible for a third shard to be on Scadrial. Scadrial is referred to by khris in the AU as a dishardic planet meaning it only has two shards. Otherwise I would totally agree with you.

If I had a nickel for every upvote I've given you, well I'd have three nickels, but if I had a nickel for every upvote you deserved, then I would go buy a house Thanks for the advice by the way, and I'll try to read warbreaker as soon as possible!

Once again, thanks for the information. It seems like there are a lot of theories and such that I've missed out on, being a fairly new reader of Brandon's work. (Although since February I have read all of his cosmere works barring warbreaker along with the Rithmatist, the five Alcatraz books that are out right now, and the reckoners series) Anyway, thanks for the info, and I'll try to be more careful next time I post something so that it might actually be something that hasn't already been discussed

So after reading Alloy of Law I noticed that in the ars arcanum Khriss writes that there is something special about twinborns that she wants to look into more. She said that it's not just that they have two powers but "they have two powers and... an effect" That spiked my curiosity and I wondered if it would be explained in either of the next two books but they mention nothing of it in the story and the ars arcanum at the end says the same thing. Now at this point we've only met three twinborn, so we don't exactly have much to go on, however I tried deducing specific things that we see exhibited by the twinborn that might not be normal. The problem is it's hard to decipher whether the things I've found are just their personalities or if it could actually be influenced by their nature as a twinborn. Wax-- Wax seems to have a primal desire for justice and the law to be upheld. We see this throughout the series but especially when it talks about his time in the terris village and how he tipped off the cops for that one kid, and eventually had to kill him. Not only this but it seems that in the terris village he has a reputation as a person who would report anyone breaking the rules. Related to his thirst for justice is his overwhelming sense of duty. He is the kind of person who would always try to do the right thing whether it benefits him or not, as noted with his conversation with harmony. Harmony mentions something about Wax always tying himself to his duty and viewing it as the opposite of freedom whereas it doesn't need to be. He seems to be pessimistic in regards to himself. He always notes how he's getting too old and how the technology of the world is going to leave him behind in the dust. He doesn't give himself credit for all the stuff he does, and he often views bad things as his fault because he didn't anticipate it or see it sooner, etc Wayne-- First off for Wayne is probably the most obvious, his skills at impersonation and accents. In most situations he can blend in with any crowd, heck, he could probably convince someone that he's the lord ruler (if he has the right hat). It just seems to come instinctually to him the ability to be other people and act like them. Now this could also be because he hates being who he really is -- a coward who killed a girl's father and regrets it. But that's too depressing so for the sake of argument I'm including it in the list. Something else I noticed with Wayne is that he seems to place a lot of emphasis and importance on physical objects such as his hats/costumes. He believes that with a person's hat he can essentially 'become' them when he needs to. Could this have something to do with the items' connection to their former owner in the spiritual realm? Or is it simply that they help him feel more in character... Maybe it's both and he just doesn't realize the former is happening. Wayne also seems to have an... interesting sense of morales and responsibility. What I mean is when he takes one item and replaces it with another he doesn't regard it as stealing, only as a trade that he views as fair regardless of the objects economic worth. Furthermore, when he does something wrong or gets in trouble he thinks stuff like "Oh no I wonder how much they're gonna fine wax for that" instead of him thinking about the consequences to himself. Miles-- Out of the three, we know the least about Mikes but we do have a small amount of information to draw from. For instance it is mentioned that miles basically doesn't feel pain anymore and we don't know if that could be part of the "effect" of being a twinborn or just because his compounded healing abilities made him so used to not ever being actually hurt that he doesn't notice pain anymore. We also saw at the end of AoL that Miles seems to not believe he's actually going to die, and faces down the bullets with a sort of grim determination and dedication. Could this be from his devotion to the set? Or is something else going on here... Well this is the information I've gathered so far, and if you have anything I missed feel free to add and I would love to here everybody's theories on what this extra "effect" could be.

Thank you for letting me know, I tried to search for another topic like this but couldn't find one. I'll go check out the other thread now! Edit: I just checked out the other thread and read some of it, skimming through other sections. While reading it I came up with another idea for a shard intent, well two actually. The first is Fear, because a god would need its followers to have a respectful fear of him and the other one I thought of was Humility to keep god from becoming arrogant and not caring about the world he created. Also we know there was a force that opposed adonalsium, so it would be bad if he got too cocky in regards to that. Also I originally started thinking about the shards being paired like allomantic metals at first as one person in the thread tried to do, but I couldn't figure out the logistics of how it would make sense the same way. Perhaps it could be something like: Preservation, Ruin, Endowment, Cultivation Devotion, Odium, Honor, Ambition Autonomy, Dominion, Humility, Intimidation ???, ???, ???, ??? Edit 2: I realized that I was saying it wrong when I said fear. What I really meant is something along the lines of Intimidation to make others fear him, and Intimidation could be considered an indirect opposite of Humility so I have adjusted the chart accordingly. At first I was toying around with the idea of Pride being one of them but I don't think that would fit with what we know so far. I thought of it originally as a possible opposite to Humility, but it seemed too... obvious, I guess and I ruled it out. Also perhaps the shard that "just wants to survive" is something like Desperation (or maybe there is actually a Fear). I'm not confident enough in this thought to put it in my chart yet, but I'm just throwing the idea out there for anyone to build on.