Chinsukolo

Ok so another theory out the window!

Yes, when I reread my post I realized I did a poor job of trying to explain the concept behind my thought. I edited it to try and clean it up so that maybe it's not as confusing and doesn't suggest that the possibility that they are working as a shardpool still.

I shouldn't have used "Ideals" since that has loaded meaning in SA already. I guess trying to say the Surge is more of a human concept that natural force. Like Gravitation is a physics force, but Transportation is more of a thing people and living things do. I kind of see Tension not a Physical thing like surface tension, but as a emotional type, hence Bondsmiths bring people together by reducing tension or creating tension between peoples. I don't have an answer for all of them because many we havent seen. Just wanted to share a thought/concept.

I think there is another possibility. Preservation Invested more in Humans that Ruin, hence Ruin being stronger, so Preservation was using Pits of Hasthin and Atium Allomancers to weaken Ruin to the "same(ish)" level of power that he could contain him in the well. After Harmony - Humans still have more preservation in them. So possibly Harmony could to use the Pits again to "spend" away Ruin to stay in balance. (As a concept) In that case, I imagine he could consciously adjust the amount of Ruin he "spends" away to allow him to act however he wants. I.e. A more "preservation based" action, he just spends more of the ruin side first somewhere else. So instead of each action having to be balanced, he basically balances a Ruin action here, by a Preservation action over there. However, I'm pretty sure the geographical Pits still exist, but they don't function as a "Ruin" sink anymore, meaning if Harmony it's not action balancing, maybe he is dumping into his own God Metal (EttMetal) and that's why it's so crazy reactive... because it's not actually a balanced metal, it has more "Ruin" in it than Preservation so that he himself Harmony can stay balanced. TL:DR Humans still have more Preservation in them, so maybe Harmony put more "Ruin" into Ettmetal since Pits and Atum don't exist like they did for Preservation. That would then allow Harmony to be more balanced.

Thanks for pulling that up - to me that's much more clear cut then his other response. I think that also foreshadows the idea that drawing Nightblood on Roshar is also Very Dangerous, since the person wouldn't even need a Surge to Connect to Investiture (now that you and Calderis have corrected my understanding). Drawing in a Highstorm seems pretty scary.

Yeah working my way through them now after One Who Connects linked them. Didn't realize there were so many! I wish they were in the paper text as foot notes =/ In response to: If he doesn't need the 'gate' / 'key to access Investiture though the wielder then this would make his usage on Roshar significantly more scary since Investiture is free in the environment as Stormlight, and openly available all over the place stored in money and lighting. What crazyness might happen if Szeth draws him during a highstorm? O.o

Fair points, I forgot about the Grate.

A robot can follow commands and computers can execute code, this doesn't mean they have cognitive capabilities and forma mental imagine of what they are doing. Nor does it allow for them to have an "intent" to do the thing they are doing. Lifeless receiving a command is no different then a computer or robot - it will be followed explicitly and without thought or improvisation that are attributed to cognitive capability and intent. As for your last WoB - the question specifically asked about Drab. But Brandon specifically said it would feed Breath then if unable to feed on the soul. So I was reading that as an order of presidence. No reason you can't be right and I can't be wrong, I think it's just interpretations of WoBs, and we've seen Brandon trip up on himself in WoBs before.

Not disagreeing with him consuming any investiture, including Spark of Life. Just speculating that (using the playdoh fun factory analogy) you have to have the key, blue plastic thing to access Investiture. Since the blue plastic thing for Endowment is mental/picture intent, Lifeless can't access her investiture themselves, and so Nightblood doesn't have the "gate" opened to consume the investiture. The mental image for a sword is seeing an attacked or usage or injury or wound, so soon as hes drawn in Warbreaker any sapient being can have the "mental image" (blue plastic thing" of him being used, so the gates are open and he devours their investiture. This is why I don't think he'd automatically kill someone on Scanriel because they need Allomancy to open the Investiture gate for him to swallow their Spark of life. A mental image/intent doesn't do anything there because they dont have Breath and aren't of endowment. @One Who Connects It is my opinion only, but I don't think those WoBs contradict my theory, becasue Brandon specifically mentions Breath, and my theory already addresses that. The spark of Life comment specifically mentions Investiture and the spark of life investiture everyone has. I agree Nightblood will consume them too, my point is that they have to access the Investiture first, then when they run out he'll use their spark of life. If they never access Investiture, because they down't have that planets key (mental Image + Breath, Allomany + Burn metal, Nahel Bond + Stormlight) then he won't/can't kill him. We've NEVER seen Nightblood drawn by someone without Breath (Drab or off world), and of those with Breath, we've never seen him drawn by someone who was brain-dead (Lifeless).

Cool - thank you. Tracking I was making assumptions, and I was definitely going down the rabbit holes on idea progression. But like i mentioned I was after hard info that I was wrong, and you provided. So thanks, because i was really after confirmation of one way or another, or confirmation that we just didn't know.

Pretty sure Kaladin's blue theme is because Blue is the Color associated with Windrunners and Jez as Sapphire is their Gemstone. We'll know if we see other Radients pick up their Gemstone colors (Dalinar-yellow, Shallan-blood red, Lift-white diamond, Renarin-Green Emerald). Not trying to contradict your explanation of why the confusion, I agree, just offering more info/reason as to why he is in particular is blue.

I'm trying to find the post /WoB but I'm pretty certain it was mentioned that Endowments Shardpool is "leaky" and that's why the flowers and Jungle grow over a large area,a nd that this means the pool is to weak to form a perpendicularity. I thought that's why many on 17th Shard believed there was some type of Awakening knowledge needed to world hope vice just locating the perpendicularity.

I'd read Elantris / Emperors Soul and Warbreaker before Arcanum Unbound. While AU isn't dependent on them, things will make more sense.

To split hairs a little, I think it's Bauxite. Because they refer to it as a stone, so that would make it Aluminum ore as opposed to refined metal.

I thought Awakening requires Intent/mental picture of command? So access to Endowments investiture (Breath) requires the the person to have intent and be able to imagine the object doing it. Since Lifeless can't cognate and don't think, they can't have an Intent, or 'mental picture' of an action so they can't access Endowments Investiture, thus Nightblood doesn't draw their breath and they don't die. Where as living picture Nightblood killing and think about how a sword wounds and so the intent/mental image is there and access to Investiture is opened. The reason it kills everyone / works on everyone in Warbreaker is because everyone but Drabs have 1 Breath, so the gate is opened enough for Nightblood to kill them through Investiture draw. I don't believe we ever saw a Drab try to use Nightblood.

Reading through the question section and someone asked about Shardblades cutting in the spirit realm, and that reminded me that most investiture (not Selish) resides there. It occurred to me to expand on your description to suggest maybe it's ideas that develop spiritual "concepts' that becomes spren. "Fear of god", "Spiritual Hunger" "Joy of creation" Stick's have no need of a Spiritual component (except maybe Stick!), same for a boat, so maybe the missing "spiritual concept" is why we don't have boat spren.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned but can't find it anywhere - but I believe he was classified Truthless for having reported in someway that the Surgebinding had returned. The Shin said this isn't possible and branded him a Truthless for lying. I want to say this is supported when he fights Kaladin and realizes Radiant's have returned, so he was correct, so he's not actually Trutheless because Shin leaders were wrong.

Makes sense on both accounts. I can get behind the idea that you'd get none because f the interference. That does seem more likely to me as well. -Thanks

Would this limit you to the resonances of only the 5 you hold? Or would you gain the other 5 resonance effects from washover/ melding of the blades to "make" the ones in between you don't hold? @Darkness I wonder if this means Szeth would get "surges" equivalent to Heightenings since that's Endowments 'power'. If so I wonder if it's based on Nightblood's original leave of Breaths invested (1k) or the total he's consumed even though he's corrupted them.

Good point! I forgot that because I was thinking of the part where he is out over the Ocean heading towards the IRE. I can support that, and that actual "absence" would mean the cognitive boards are touching which still allows world-hopping. So I think the outcome would be the same. The onlt time i think a difference would appear in the CR between the two ideas is when Space travel starts. If it stays more condensed and close together (so absence) vs the space between CR areas expands (so idea based). What is your opinion on the spren subtheory that it's some type of critical mass, or at least enough CR sentience to attract Investiture?

I have a feeling I'm going to get shot down quickly here, but I'm going to toss this idea out anyways. Happy to be corrected but if you are going to do so at least share the Wob or Passage to tell me why - just don't tell me I'm wrong and walk away... Generally people think the Highstorm is Honor's Shard pool and that Horneater peaks is Cultivation's. But we were told Urithru was built in the mountains to be closer to Honor, and the Horneater Peaks shard pools is up in those mountains. What if Horneater peaks is actually Honors, and is thus closer to Urithru, and the Highstorm, is just the Stormfathers moving wall of Investiture now that Honor is broken? This would leave Origin to be Cultivations Shardpool - which sounds backwards since "highstorms originate there" but we know that's not realistically true because Brandon has said the Highstorm just keeps circling the the planet. So while humans see it originating from the east, it's actually just crossing the ocean from the west. Second since Honor and Cultivation are in this together, Cultivation shares her Investiture with the Highstorm when it pass over her Shardpool at Origin for two purposes. To restrengthen it after being weakened by the Shin Mtns. But also to provide "mixed" Honor and Cultivation investiture across the world. Since RK are product of both Shards, they might need both flows of investiture, so why not have a storm deliver both instead of just one? Origin doesn't have to be origin of storms, could be origin of life, or something... Anyways wanted to see what people think. Im sure plenty will tell me I'm just wrong. I'm not convinced this is "right" or Canon, more along the lines of I think most "believe Origin = Honor" but we dont have true canon to support it, just conjecture like above. So truly looking for hard evidence that I'm wrong, or at a minimum to acknowledge that it's possible and we just don't know yet.

Short theory here: Each order has 2 surges making up their order. Some surges are much more human ideals and others are much more natural forces. We also know that Honor and Cultivation were working together. So I suggest that there are two surges for every order because it's 1 surge from Honor and 1 Surge from Cultivation. Maybe it's to simple but wanted to share and see what people thought.

So I had this idea before Oathbringer excerpts were out, but I posted it here because i feel like the Soul Caster interlude supports the idea and wanted to include it. We know the 10 Heralds align with the 10 Radiant orders. We also know their were 10 Silver Age Kingdoms, each with a Capitol City and an Oathgate to Urithru. I believe (and think the literature supports it vaguely) that their are 10 Dawn Citys that have the resonate shapes from the Cynmatics (sp), and that these were/are the Capitols of the 10 Silver Kingdoms. So I kind of extrapolate that to mean each Capitol and each Kingdom has a Herald "patron". I think this can explain quite a few things and also might offer some possible reason but others. For example some reason use on Herald more than the others in their curses and lay terms. Some places are much more focused on one ideal/idea than others, such as Laws (Azir(?) / Nalan / SkyBreakers), or Leading and Protection (Kholinar / Jezrein / WindRunners), or Kharbaranth for Lightweavers (maybe). Anyways I havent sorted them all out and we're missing lots of data, but that's the concept. Now I wanted to take this a step farther and suggest maybe SoulCasters that aren't Fabrials (originals) were made in Aimia because their Patron Herald was ElseCaller (Battar). The reason they are so protective is they are only ones who know how to make the original type of Soulcaster, and they are protecting that knowledge (as suggested by others), and they have that knowledge because of their Kingdom/Capitols patron Herald. So perhaps the other kingdoms still have or had and are forgotten, things they can do that no one else can do as well becasue of who their patron herald was. Thoughts?

So I've had this thought / view rattling around in my head for sometime and have been refining it as I reread books too. For me it's a little bit of head canon that helps me process things I read and makes them fit together. Arguably all I have is the same descriptions everyone else has and then some of my own brain storming on why, but anyways here goes. The Cognitive Realm (CR) is a place of the "ideas" of the cosmere's sapient lifeforms. The non-spren life forms with sapience such as humans and dragons, think about the things in the would around them and this forms in the cosmere as 'cognitive being' based on man's perception. I.e. Human see's a stick, has thoughts about the stick, and ideas of what it can and can't do an where it came from. All these thoughts related to that specific stick form the cognitive realms manifestation of the item. - That's kind of my back ground understanding to how human perception/ideas lead to CR 'creations'. Moving on to more of the actual theory portion: I believe that the sphere's we see in Shadesmar (Roshar CR) are all individual ideas of an object in the physical realm (PR). I think some people will say that's obvious maybe, but anyways. I think this is demonstrated when the Soul Casting CR sections where Stick is it's own sphere, same with the goblet, and so on. I'm of the opinion also that all items are separate, i.e. a chest on the boat was not 1 sphere, but 1 for the boat and a different one for the chest, even though the chest was "inside" the boat. This is because 'man' see's them as different items despite being housed in one or another. I think that the Shadesmar is a geographical opposite of Roshar because of the amount of ideas. I.e. Land is a sea of spheres, and ocean is relatively solid but squishy. This is because the land in the PR is full of physical objects all having their own idea/perception for 'man' so all needing a sphere. Every blade of grass, every insect, all of it, it all adds up to a giant "ball pit" of ideas. The ocean on the other hand is seen as 1 huge idea. So it's much more solid because it's a single idea spread over a vast area. Man still has ideas about fish and water plants, so those things still show up, but they show up as small sphere on a large firm squishy idea of an ocean. I feel like this is supported also by Kelsier's experience in the Secret history, and explains why Scadrial's CR is different than Roshars. That's because at the time Secret History happens, everything is dead and mostly covered in ash, so the humans of the region have significantly fewer idea/perceptions of the 'land" area so there are drastically less spheres. This leads to "land" being one huge idea, just like the ocean, and it its spread out and firm but squishy. Ash is an idea ll it's own and also spread over a huge area. So the only areas that get deep or turn into ball pits are those few areas where lots of ideas/perceptions of the PR are condensed, everything else is relatively empty. This same concept would also help explain the IRE and world hoppers abilities to move from planet to planet and why things are so "close" in the CR. Because 'man' also sees "space" as 1 big huge idea that is empty minus the other planets. So this to becomes "hard" walk-able area. Since majority of 'man' doesn't realize the vastness of space, the equivalent area in the CR is also smaller, matching in size to the limited perception of spaces vastness. (So basically if 'man' as a whole knew how fer things really were in space, I think everything between planets int he CR would be drastically farther, but cause the idea of vast difference is attached to the idea of space. Since it's understood to be big, but not truly known how vast, the space is still large but but in reality much closer and usable for traveling then true space is, for now.) So far this doesn't address spren, but i basically consider those to be idea spheres that receive a heavy investiture and/or have more significant PR cognitive force behind them. I.e. Cryptics and Honor spren are more advanced in CR because in the PR humans devote a lot of thinking/cognition/emotion to that specific idea, more so than a stick receives, or a chull. By that same thought though I do believe a CR sphere for a chull would be more 'advanced' than a stick if it was engaged in conversation by a soul caster. Basically your CR level of sentience is directly related to the amount of PR cognitive force/thinking done my sentient life in relation to that exact object or idea. I think that's it, sorry for the wall of text. TL:DR 1) Every PR object that is 'thought about' by a PR sentient being is an idea sphere in the CR. 2) PR areas with more objects perceived/thought about by humans = more idea spheres. 3) Large areas int he PR perceived as single thing (ocean) are a single sphere but spread out over more CR space in direct relation to how big it is perceived by sentient life. (Ocean is huge, so 1 huge spread out idea.) 3) Idea sphere's are physically firm to slightly squishy in the CR. This allows you to "walk" across the idea of the ocean. 4) Land on Roshar is a "ball pit" of idea spheres, so deep you can drowned because sentient life is aware of every stick, blade of grass, etc, so they all get to be an idea sphere. 5) Land on Scadrial during Secret History is firm and walk-able because humans only perceive, "land" and "ash" in most places, so in the CR it responds like the idea of the "ocean" 6) More PR thought or cognition about an idea = more CR sentience for the idea. I.e. A rock or a stick is quite dumb compared to Chull or a Boat. 6a) CR idea sphere's with enough Sentience either were invested by Honor/Cultivation, or reached a 'critical mass' that attracted enough Investiture that they became spren.

All good to know, thanks for pointing out the WoBs and such. So it seems the likely answer is Yolish light weaving with sand as his catalyst. And nothing to do with Taldain, a red herring as suggested.