Vortaan

You're missing what is probably the most useful part of Allomancy: you don't have to be on Scadrial to use it. How well do you think Kaladin would do on Scadrial, with no Stormlight? Or how well Raoden would do on Nalthis, so far from Elantris? Vasher might fare better but I wonder if organic material from other Shardworlds might not give the Breath back as readily as Nalthis materials would.

The majority of the sounds you point out though are words, which have meaning. I'm more incline to think that language, as the most efficient way of conveying Intent, is more important on Roshar than other Shardworlds, rather than just sound. The hum when Soulcasting may have originated as a way to communicate to the spren that allowed it. As for the rhythm of battle with the Thrill... don't they also make a lot of references to how a battle is extremely chaotic? I'm not sure I'd take that one as anything other than poetic descriptions.

Also remember that he forces the crew to watch those executions because they are basically the crew's fault. Kelsier is more focused on his part in these executions than his long term plan

I thought we had WoB that Odium isn't actually on Roshar right now, just in the system. I'd buy the face being more Cultivation or maybe one of the Unmade/Ten Fools, though.

Well, we know it wasn't the presence of the black smoke that led to Feruchemy, or pretty much all of Luthadel would've been Feruchemists by the time of the books. The Shardpools idea seems to hold the most water right now. It could also be that Leras just made them a bit different, OR that there was a similar purge of Feruchemists in the past and that Terris was where the refugees fled. Honestly if I were fleeing from a racial purge, inhospitable mountain terrain wouldn't seem like a bad idea.

There's also some evidence that there is something opposed to Adonalsium, from a few Brandon quotes. That could end up being the real Big Bad.

Would you concede that the end result needs to align with the Intent? For example, Preservation can stab Elend if at the end of the day, there is a way that Elend is NOT Ruined. Honor can probably lie in order to act Honorably. Ruin can build things up if they are more useful for Ruining that way. AT the end of the day though,I think a Shard's final result -has- to align with it's Intent, or else what are Intents for? On topic, I agree with those that said that Honor just doesn't have the right kind of Intent to fight Odium. I wonder if the Oathpact was his version of the Leras trick. Also keep in mind that as far as we know, Odium has splintered three separate Shards. He's got to be a bit tough to go up against without being pretty clever, I'd think.

I thought we had WoB that you can't use non-Scadrian metals for the Metallic Arts. Might be wrong about that, though, but that is certainly some difference if true.

Agreed. I think any magic system on Roshar is going to use the same focuses, but use them differently. Remember that a Shardworld influences the magic systems that are created on it. I think the focuses and gemstones are going to be consistent across all magics.

We do have WoB that how someone views their Intent makes a difference. Perfect stasis might not have been how Leras viewed Preservation. Actually, without people or some kind of meaning to the world, what exactly would he be Preserving?

Wait... in umpteen Desolations, there's no mention or record of an anti-KR that used a different magic system. I don't know that Voidbinding follows the same rules as Surgebinding, I equate it more to the similarities between Feruchemy and Allomancy.

Couple centuries? I would think it's pretty much dissipated by this time. Burning things to send them to the gods is a pretty universal tradition. I don't think I'd read a ton into it.

Wait, how do you figure? Leras had to jump through a ton of hoops to go against his Intent, and he did so while working within the confines of his Intent. Unless you are counting setting the whole thing up as against Preservation?

Are you proposing that Odium is still Invested in Sel? Because otherwise, I'm not sure why it would stick with him. I doubt if Harmony left Scadrial he'd still be blind to metal.

I equate it a lot to being an Allomancer. A Coinshot has an innate advantage in long range combat, but he's no better at taking a hit than anyone else. A Slider is going to be able to do crazy dodging, but that might not help him very much with convincing someone to relax. All Shards being equal in power does not equate to all Shards being equal in capabilities, which we've seen. Cultivation is better at predicting the future than Honor, and Ruin could talk to his minions while Preservation was better at seeing what they were thinking. I'm actually on the fence on Dominion. I think it could probably be a neutral-Intent. Dominion over others isn't always a bad thing, look at any benevolent king in history. The definition of the word is simply sovereignty or control. That leaves a LOT of room for interpretation. You can make a pretty good argument for Raoden follow the Intent of both Dominion and Devotion, actually. EDIT: I could also make a decent theory that adding hatred to a system based on Dominion could result in shattering it, depending upon how the original holder viewed his Intent.

I don't know, creatively working within the limitation placed by the system sounds exactly like a Sanderson plot. As name_here points out though, I bet the method I described wouldn't do a whole heck of a lot to Ruin, or some other negative Intent shards.

Fair enough. The fact that he's still writing with Alzheimer's is amazing to me, so I'm willing to overlook a few style differences. I'll admit that his books... I want to say post-Nation have seemed a bit different than those before.

I'm not saying his power is different, I'm saying that his Intent is in general something more... hrm. I guess the word would be inclusive, but I want something better. Insidious? Hatred, especially self-hatred, is a very sneaky thing. It's very very easy to engage in, it's very easy to miss, and it's very easy to make decisions based off of it. One of my main ideas of how you shatter a Shard is to make it so the Intent no longer aligns with the holder's self-image. I don't think Odium is more powerful than other Shards, just that his very particular Intent is much more versatile than say, Preservation or Ruin. For that matter I really think Cultivation has a lot of flexibility, as does probably Endowment (although I also suspect the nature of Endowment ends up with him/her being less powerful at any given time than other Shards). But like your mist spirit theory, this might be one where we agree to disagree until we get some more proof one way or another. EDIT: Just occured to me, sorry, but I also think the Vin/Ruin conflict is an awful example of how to shatter a Shard, since shattering apparently results in the Shard being unable to be picked up again. It's not a matter of opposites, it's a matter of changing viewpoints.

I'm curious as to why. Snuff isn't exactly a light hearted romp, but I thought it was a pretty good book

It could be that Odium had to enter a pact with Honor because they are antithetical to each other. I think that name_here's idea is probably a better explanation of what I meant. I also agree that Shards with a more negative Intent, like Ruin, might not be able to be shattered this way. However, we haven't exactly seen any negative Intent Shards be shattered yet, either. Also Darnam, you're assuming that because Devotion's power is at a higher level than the small scrap of Odium, that on balance it would cancel it out. What if it's more like a slow poison or chemical reaction? The small amount doesn't matter then, once the reaction is started it might not be able to be stopped. Perhaps in that situation, all you have time to do is make some Splinters and prepare for the end.

I wonder though. If a bit of Odium made it into Devotion or Dominion, could that change their Intent enough that it causes them to self-destruct? IT would probably be a really long process, but the thing about hatred is that you can conceivably fit a lot of Intents into it without changing the core of what it means. I think perhaps that Odium's main advantage is that his Intent is a little bit more inclusive than a lot of others. To use the reservoir analogy, it'd be like adding self-replicating Kool-aid to the reservoir. It'll take awhile, but sooner or later the whole reservoir would be Kool-aid, unless you flushed the whole thing and started fresh.

Wait a second. Have we stumbled maybe onto how Odium shatters a Shard? The way he does it is apparently draining... could his own self-hatred or hatred of others push him past this reluctance that other Shards have? We've seen what happens when two Shards that are antithetical are forced to interact. What happens when you inject a force of hatred into a power fueled by Devotion?

First Generation had to have spikes. Sazed sees one of them crawling around like a mistwraith immediately after the Resolution

From the Coppermind, end of Kwaan's inscription: So he knew what was going to happen, and probably passed that along to Rashek. How far along during the Ascension Rahsek figured out the Hemalurgic double cross is debatable. Actually, secondary question: where do you think he got the spikes for the first kandra/koloss/Inquisitors? He probably couldn't have made them with Preservation's power, so... where'd they come from? Ruin?

Actually that's a good point, because Kaladin's eye change while he's Surgebinding. Why don't Szeth's? Why do they only change when he summons his Blade?