BrightnessRadiant

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Invasion was already part of the plan for the game. Lynching Joe did nothing. We need to have an actual lynch this time. I've never been in a conversion game and it's gonna frustrate me so badly to have to start off every round with new reads because of people being converted. Best to finish the game in as few cycles as possible. For now, I'll repeat my vote on Elandera to start the lynch discussion. @Elandera I'd like your feedback on why you didn't vote on people you cast suspicion on and kept your poke vote on Steel.

Oh dear

I will put flowers on your grave every day...except maybe Tuesdays. Gotta have a day off. But thank you for your reads!

@Young Bard any thoughts on the lynch that you could share or help just based on gut or anything? Currently it's too open and the only way I could change that alone is voting on Joe but I don't feel like dying. I don't trust voting on a GM lol

Ah right. That's good. Said I was tired lol. Okay but it still leaves the lynch open to vote manipulation where it is now. And it also could be left open to a WGG since a tie with Joe would probably only result in the player receiving one pain level as stated in the rules. Not too risky to just get one pain level I don't think. I've seen riskier done and gotten away with. Anyways, this lynch needs to be decided not tied because we won't learn anything by dealing one level of pain to a random player. @Crimsn-Wolf @Fifth Scholar @xinoehp512 @Kidpen @Devotary of Spontaneity @Elandera @Steeldancer @Walin @Cadmium Compounder @Mailliw73 @I think I am here. @Alvron @Straw @Droughtbringer @TheMightyLopen @Shqueeves @MetaTerminal @ElephantEarwax

Alright so currently Joe has 2 votes on him. One from Straw and one from MetaTerminal. (I'm assuming Kidpen's vote on Darkness canceled his first vote on Joe although I never saw him green the name. That would leave it at 2 for Joe, and 1 for Drought, Steel, Bard, and Kidpen. Which means with a vote manipulation out there they could move one of the votes and cause it to be a two way tie which, according to the rules, deals damage to both people. (Providing the Joe vote counts) And if it doesn't then we're looking at causing 4 different players all getting 1 pain added to their level. That's not a good idea. Or having the vote manipulation take their pick of targets sitting there nicely lined up as Sart pointed out. If it gets down to the wire and no one else votes then I'll place my vote on one of the current candidates but personally I'm getting a weird feeling from Elandera's posts reading back through the cycle. First two posts are just rp and rule clarification and then second is asking what's to keep Spirit's gang from claiming to be Independents but then posts again saying they misunderstood the rule about only Independents making PMs. So still NAI. But then I don't like how they voted for Steel with a poke vote when the said they were interested in starting a "real lynch discussion" and they even commented on how they had a slight suspicion on Mail in two separate posts but never voted on him. Yes, they said it was because it was his first game back but also a poke vote that hasn't been removed is a safe place to hide if you don't have any suspicions because you are an elim and you can always say you fully meant to remove the vote and didn't get to or forgot. Also, they cast slight suspicion on people who are against Mail's plan in one of their next posts and that's twice they've cast doubt on people without voting with that suspicion which is often an elim thing to do. I could be wrong about this, but it's all I've got for day 1 suspicion. And also if it's confusing it's because I'm tired. I apologize.

Just remember there is vote manipulation so if we are gonna have a lynch this cycle don't forget to remove poke votes or not let the votes be tied at the end of cycle. I haven't thought through what's been posted enough times in my overthinking process to find anything really suspicious so I'll wait until I can look things over some more...and then more cuz I have problems. I don't think I'd say Mail's discussion topic was suspicious because as he said it was to generate discussion which day 1 can sorely lack. It's good to hear how everyone reacts to ideas.

@Mailliw73 yeah sorry, I'm trying to figure out how to get my point across and it isn't working for me I'm saying that when you're an elim sometimes you make a list like this: Player Roles Brightness - Independent Mail - Baron's gang (possible sub role or gang leader) And so on... until the roles are filled in and narrowing down that information for the elims is risky because it infinitely improves their planning and narrows down who is where and who their best targets are etc. Just in theory if the elims don't start out in other factions then we'll be helping them by giving them a bunch of info they don't have yet. Not sure if that explains it better and if not sorry lol. (Btw hypothetical roles not role claiming anything in this post haha)

@Alvron yes that lol. My point is that information is dangerous when it comes to helping the elims narrow down choices for anything. I know one game I played as an elim we had almost every role accounted for in only like 2 or 3 cycles because people overshared.

@Mailliw73 But my point is then it would also narrow down the field for the Spirits when it comes to village roles. Because if I was a Spirit then one of my main goals would be to find the gang leaders quicker since one of their win cons is killing or converting all the gang leaders. Because if the Independents are revealed to be completely independent then it narrows down the player possibilities for who they are. I can see your point about it narrowing down our chances tho. If the Spirits aren't in a second gang yet it would help to know that before they start converting. I just feel like information could be over shared.

Yeah but what if the Independents aren't in any gangs at all?

@Mailliw73 I'm not assuming they aren't in a gang already (the Spirits), I'm saying that having the Independents out themselves narrows down the list of who the gang *leaders* are in those gangs. Because even the gangs won't know who their leaders are. And if the elims know who all the Independents are that just adds to their list of everyone's roles. Because an independent can't be a gang leader even if they're in a gang. The rules state that the independents don't have any sub roles so they can't be gang leaders right?

My problem with outing the Independents is that it narrows down the list for the Spirits to find the gang leaders by them knowing who *isn't* a gang leader. Plus, I thought the Independents were completely independent. They aren't in any docs right? Because the docs are only for gangs and as their roles imply they are completely independent?

First thing I want to bring up is DO NOT reveal your role here or in your gang's doc if you are one of the gangs leaders because you are a primary target for the Spirits to convert or kill and we only have 3 of you for them to find to get a quick win con for them amd don't forget that what you say in your gang doc can end up being known to the Spirits because of the conversion mechanic so be careful and don't trust anyone too much even if they've proved themselves in previous cycles. I've never played a conversion game iirc and this just ups my anti-trust levels more. Next I'd like to remind everyone that this is NOT a faction game so we need to work together as much as possible. (Which may prove difficult with how much I just stated not to trust anyone but yeah) Time is of the essence though because the more cycles there are the more conversions they make. Also, there's vote manipulation and only for the Spirits so make sure we don't have any ties when in doubt and be aware that they might use it to make someone look suspicious or to save someone but think it through carefully if there's vote manipulation and don't just jump on the person who gets saved. Shaor is pretty well protected by her gang but still don't reveal yourself because then all the Spirits have to do to take you out or convert you is to pick off your gang one at a time. At least it gives us a few cycles before they can get to you even if they do find out your identity. Karata's gang is super important to finding out who's been converted and who hasn't and also keeping the gang leaders out of the lynch and people from being converted so PLEASE be active and use those abilities because we need them. If you suspect you know who a gang leader is then you should try to keep them out of the lynch with your ability or keep them from being converted. I.E. if Shaor gets targeted and one of her gang members ends up Heod in her place then her identify will be revealed the next cycle so you could start protecting her with your abilities since the Spirits would probably proceed to pick off her gang and wouldn't even have to know their identities because they could just repeatedly target Shaor if I'm understanding the rules right because her gang members will automatically take the hits for her. And I'm guessing that includes conversions. Then there's Independents. Only they can start PMs but that immediately reveals them as a non-Spirit if they made a pm on the first cycle since there have been no conversions yet. However past the first cycle, Independents can longer be fully trusted since they may have been targeted by a conversion. I'm not sure what good the PMs do at this point seeing how we can't really trust anyone who might have been converted unless we're counting on the Spirit's to save their conversions for those who aren't Independents because they can narrow down the list of possible gang leaders further. So I'm not sure if you should even make PMs since that narrows their search. I'm not sure how helpful any of this is but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the rules so here's my rumblings. And don't trust anyone. Edit: oh I forgot the other gang. Baron's gang should try to use their healing abilities to heal the gang leaders if possible if they think they know who they are or if they've been revealed. Also, Shaor's gang would be good targets I think for healing because that protects Shaor as well. And that gang as a role block so that's important when it comes to conversions as well. So make sure to stay active and use those abilities!

Joining as Venele.

Sadly I have to withdraw too. Internet I was getting didn't work out. sorry everyone

I'm in

Well darn xD Well played elims and also thanks @Drake Marshall for running such a great game!(: I hated having 3 out of 4 players that I suspected at the end and simply couldn't figure it out who was who xD I should've gone ahead with lynching Ecth like Arinian suggested xD I was sure it was either Monster or Devotary and Ecth worked as an elim with either so I should've gone with that xD *shrugs* I have to say well done to @Devotary of Spontaneity for throwing me back and forth so many times. *claps for your annoying me to death*

Why not? Why are you so convinced there are 4? "Close to the end" doesn't necessarily mean "this is the last cycle". Plus, why would the elims have been sooo careful with their kill until that cycle if their wasn't a fewer number of them? If you're an elim than it would've been easy to put in the kill on Ripple since you could clearly tell that no one really suspected her. Honestly everyone but Arinian and Ecth was on at the end of the cycle so a kill on Ripple makes sense to me. Uhh are you saying Devotary had better village rep? Joe was already dead before I brought Devotary up for discussion and after you and Joe both posted saying that you "agreed with my posts" and voted with me then I knew it felt wrong. I never moved off Joe as a definite...I merely brought them up as an alternate lynch so I could look closer at Joe. I did look back at more stuff and I also didn't like Joe's quick "Brightness' analysis seems sound" vote. Also, you say I trust Devotary just because they voted Joe last cycle and that's not what I said. I said because they voted Joe on cycle 2(when he wasn't even in the spotlight before that) and then voted Drought and Joe later. Also, you say that you weren't confident in and were even suspicios of Devo's plan about confirming the elim awakener, but you specifically posted in thread saying how great of a plan it was that cycle. Were you faking? And why would you as a villager act favorably towards the plan only to call it suspicious and not good later? Sorry for the late replies everyone. Had a full day. Went to the doctor, then work, then ate dinner in like 10 minutes, and left immediately for church Bible study. Just got home and started this post.

Okay no, if Ecth was trying to save Joe he would've voted Devotary and not Monster when Monster switched to vote Devo. Especially since Monster seemed to trust Devo only the cycle before in pm and later says that their plan to confirm the elim awakener wasn't really that helpful when they had acted like it was the cycle before. I think Ecth would have voted Devotary after I put them up as an alternate lynch, had he been an elim wanting to save Joe. So, Ecthelion Monster you're a top notch bluffer and also you've been trying to convince us that the elim team has four players, but at this point I only see a team of 3 and you as the last.

Yeeeeees In my mind Arinian is cleared and Devotary helped us lynch Joe and Drought so I'm pretty positive now that they're not an elim. (btw Devo are you a she? Sorry for continuing to call you they but I wasn't sure xD) That leaves Monster and Ecthelion. It's either of them or both. For now, Ecthelion I had PMs with Monster close to the end of the cycle which made me second guess him a lot. I'll try to read back through his and Ecth's posts again before cycle ends tho and I ask that everyone else gives good reasoning with their votes please. @Devotary of Spontaneity @Arinian We have to vote together this cycle if there are two elims left so we have to agree on a lynch candidate. @MonsterMetroid @Ecthelion III If you'd explain why you're not an elim and who you'd lynch instead, that'd be very helpful. Ninja'd by Monster

Ahhh I see okay that's why I suspected Devotary more than Monster last cycle I'd say if Joe flips elim I'd consider Monster or Ecth. Please don't vote there just because I think that. (I think I'm dying haha) please do analysis

Is this out of order in the write-up?

I read them, but considering I suspect you as well, they could just be you trying to save Joe The more I think about it, the more I see that Devotary was quicker to vote Drought than you were and even was the one trying to come up with a plan to prove who was the elim awakener. And they even voted on Joe on one cycle before so I trust them for that a little too. All of your votes fit perfectly for an elim...even your vote on Drought was after he had 3 and was already headed down.

Sure there is...Ripple is here too and so am I if you've got a good reason not to lynch Joe?