WhiteLeeopard

Chat between Kaladin and Szeth after the Battle of Thaylen. Szeth killed several members of Bridge 4, and Kaladin killed Szeth. They definetely should clear the air or reach a civil agreement if they are going to be on the same side.

What did Ash and Taln say/do after they woke up from the shock of Jezrien's death under Jasnah's care?

11 hours ago, galendo said:

I'm not sure whether the pattern will continue or not.  I think we'd need to see a lot more from Venli in the next book for her to do the same thing in a believable fashion.  There's basically no believable way for her to convince the entire Parshendi population to switch sides in a mere year or two, or even most of them, but it wouldn't be entirely beyond the bounds of disbelief for her to convince a significant chunk.  Enough to swing a critical battle, maybe.

I don't really expect Venli to convince all the Singers. Yes, the Fused treat them like crem, but the parsh still revere them and listen daily to their stories of evil humans who conquered and enslaved the original Singers. My most optimistic estimate of how many Venli may be able to sway into turning away and making their own choices (and basically turn into the new Listeners) is 30-40%.

I also really hope we see more Rlain on book 4.

1 hour ago, NickPlum said:

It will be interesting to see more of the Singers/Listeners history and culture, particularly the part about humans taking over the Listeners world after destroying their own. 

I'm not sure we will see fully that until Ash's and Taln's books.

12 hours ago, galendo said:

I actually think it's the other way around.  Originally, I think Eshonai was supposed to have the role now assigned to Venli.  I think that after Szeth's resurrection and Jasnah's pseudo-resurrection at the end of WoR, Brandon felt that bringing Eshonai back after having her fall off the cliff would be too much 

Not really. Absolutely every fan assumed Eshonai was alive from the cliff fall between Plate and Stormform. Keeping her alive would have been no surprise, her dying was the shocker. 

My guess is on the Sanderavalanche of book 4 Venli will swap sides with her followers. Since at each book's avalanche the flashback character "saves the day" Venli will likely make the quiet revolution throughout the book and then make her move during a battle at the end. I don't really know how much Venli will truly appear in the book, as I find it hard to believe she will be onscreen as long as Kaladin, Shallan or Dalinar on their flashback book.

I very much doubt it, but it fits surprisingly well, so get an upvote for crazy theory. A fast problem with this theory is that if it were the case Odium would have been nuts to send Sja-anat to kill Adolin.

16 hours ago, Rainier said:

I'm with you here. I didn't find it very believable that nobody cares about homosexuality when the gender roles are so rigid. At the very least, I would expect Drehy to still marry a woman, regardless of who he has sex with. After all, who is going to read for him? Who is going to look after his interests when he cannot look after his own?

 

In Hearthstone Kaladin's mother was the only woman that could read (other than the ardents and Laral's tutors). I wouldn't be surprised if gender roles blur a lot towards third nahn and lower, as such as was pointed out above it may well be homosexuality is more accepted for the lower classes. But you raise a good point, having a wife and a partner both makes a lot of sense.

Sell.

A tsunami destroys Kharbranth.

This is not a curiosity so much as a comment, but since this thread is here I decided it was a good place to put it. First time Odium and Dalinar meet on the visions:

Quote

Dalinar stood up. "I offer you a challange of champions. With terms to be discussed. Will you accept it?"

...

"Either way, I don't accept." Odium stood taller, smiling in an unnervingly understanding way.

Thank sweet Adonalsium that Odium said no right there! Because if he had said yes...

But, why exactly did Odum refuse such a golden opportunity? Dalinar would have agreed right there, and the only one possibly cold blooded enough to face the Blackthorn is Szeth, who Dalinar would have never chosen as Honor's champion at that point.

11 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

I'm not sure if there's really anything that would prevent the Heralds from having children.

• Shalash is Jezrien's daughter. I know that she was almost certainly born before they became Heralds, but it shows that they were beings that could reproduce. The reproductive system should be included in the spiritual templates for humans, and Stormlight heals passively, so that should still be functional.
• Szeth didn't seem to have adverse effects from wielding an Honorblade(though I suppose he hadn't experimented to find out).
• I'm pretty sure TLR and Vin weren't rendered sterile in the process of becoming Slivers(or from TLR's multi-Savanthood), so I doubt the Heralds would be prevented from having children due to high levels of Investiture exposure.
• (Something I'm forgetting) may edit in later

What else could be preventing them from having children beyond their personal choice?

Mainly been Cognitive Shadows. The part which I highlighted is the main question mark. They are immortal or at least have been around for 4500 looking identical, so for all we know all of them could be "frozen in the state they were in when they swore the Oathpact". Of course all the Heralds which we have seen in SA so far would be in the running for worst parents ever, but that just seems to happen everywhere in Roshar.

Vedel been Kaladin's grandmother would be curious, but she looks darkeyed in that picture (if realistic). Knowing if the Heralds can have children would be interesting. 

It would be interesting if one of the Heralds had gone to the Nightwatcher and asked to forget all and get fake memories every 30 years or so, as that might be an attempt to have semi normal lifes.

Sell, because if Odium saw Hoid even from a distance Roshar would go poof.

Khriss will spend all of book 4 and 5 in Shadesmar taking notes of events. 

8 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Really great points being made in this thread. Great job outlining this @Dreamstorm ! Honestly I could easily see this even if it is unlikely.  Not only have  some amazing points and observations been made in this thread but I also think it would be a refreshing change. That being said it kills one of the best relationships in SA for me. Their relationship for me started in the 4 vs 1 duel. Adolin's display of solidarity going to prison for Kaladin was amazing. Their friendship blossomed further in OB. When Adolin was willing to step aside for Kaladin that to me was the epitome of respect and friendship. I like the purity of their friendship and would hate to see a messy romance get in the way. Sometimes a true friendship is just as satisfying as a romantic one and I feel like this is the case with Adolin and Kaladin. 

I agree their friendship by itself is very beautiful. It was one of the first posts I made when I finished OB. I would honestly be happy with either a close friendship or a romance, I just hope that there continue to be scenes with them together regardless of which path their relationship takes. I truly, truly hope Shallan and Adolin marrying does not affect Kaladin's relationship with Adolin in any way (meaning, it doesn't stop or become uncomfortable). I suspect it won't, but I'm always going to worry about one of the best friendships I've ever read. A romance might be fun, and would be unique, but if it doesn't happen (which it probably won't) what we already have is still great.

4 hours ago, galendo said:

5) Lopen looks under rocks for some strange reason:

Quote

pg 542: They all seemed to find this comforting.  Well, except Lopen, who had snuck away from the group and for some reason was lifting up rocks on the other side of the plateau and looking underneath them.  Even among humans, he was a strange one.

Now this could just be an instance of Lopen being weird, but it's hand-waved off a little too blithely for that to be the case.  Lopen might be different, but he's not the sort of different that does things for no reason.  Maybe he's supposed to be humoring his spren?  Syl might want to look under rocks just to see what's beneath them, so that could be it.  The scene in question is a pretty touching Bridge Four moment.  It seems strange to call out Lopen for behaving bizarrely unless there's some ulterior motive behind it.  He's never done anything that seemingly nonsensical before.

I just passed this part in my reread and I think it was Lopen playing hide and seek with his spren. He did say something at the end about playing games like that with his glowy friend . And if Lopen were just showing something to his spren Rlain would see it, as he is a parshendi, he can see spren.

10 minutes ago, Comatose said:

To be fair, Brandon has also said that he reserves the right to change his mind on WoBs and only the books are canon.  I don’t think that makes it any more likely that he will explore this aspect of Adolin’s character.  He’s had a lot of this series planned for a long time, and that would be a pretty major change.  

So some hope, but not too much haha.  

In an AU, a Drehy friendship would be a really interesting line to follow.  If I go along with the idea, I’d see Adolin as being unaware of his sexuality at this point, so meeting and finding commonality with other same sex attracted folks would be a good way for him to start building self-awareness. 

I do have to be careful though.  Adolin is my #1 Cosmere Crush, so I could easily become too attached to a gay Adolin fanon.   

 

Weeell, there is a tinsy tiny bit more of hope than you may expect, as Adolin is the main loose cannon in SA that Brandon didn't have planned yet ended up having a much bigger role than originally intended. However I think that will be reserved for the Mayalaran storyline, adding whatever will happen to his Shardblade and a romance with Kaladin...would likely be too much for a character originally intended to die in TWoK. But lets keep the flame of hope awake, hope is the last thing you lose .

I never bought the idea of "Jasnah was abused as a child". Gavilar and the Blackthorn had a million flaws and nearly every single idea they had was wrong, but both strike me as the type that would skin alive anyone that lay a finger on their children, and from then on they would actually get nasty.

The lunacy is likely when Jasnah broke and started walking down the path that led to many of her current ideas. What led to the lunacy...that I don't have any ideas on.

The friendship between Kaladin and Adolin was one of the things I loved most of OB. I suspect that that is all which will ever come of it, and I am fine with it so long as we keep having scenes of them working together. I would also love seeing a romantic relationship with them, or a full three way relationship with Shallan but I suspect that will not happen. Mainly as stated above, because I doubt Sanderson would feel comfortable writing such an unusual relationship for his star series with 2 of the main characters. Minor characters maybe, but these three? Or just Kaladin and Adolin, same issues there. Sadly chances are microscopic of that been written.

I didn't read Adolin as gay, but I felt both Shallan and Adolin were probably bi from quite early on. 

Sell. She has too many hats right now. Maybe in 20 years.

Shallan makes a new persona to inflitrate the Diagram.

28 minutes ago, Krios said:

Can we please have a three-way scene with them told from the perspective of Pattern, Syl and Maya. Like through comments and cheering them on.

Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin would probably be nervous enough that they would ban their spren outside .

Nice analysis to the OP. You also left out an important point. In Kholinar, when the lighteyed guards Kaladin is with are laughing at that popinjay with the sequins he is deeply uncomfortable that they are saying those things of Adolin. Kaladin even says they never know what a person is like and maybe they should go back and ask the highranking lighteyes to join the guard. A few months earlier Kaladin would have been the most dismissive of them all, with even outright hatred. Adolin basically changed Kaladin's ideas of lighteyes singlehandedly, (with maybe some help from Shallan) as Kaladin mentally put Dalinar in a special box from day one. Adolin also began seeing Kaladin as his equal long before he revealed himself as a KR. So they had already made important strides in getting over their classism.

Szeth and Nightblood. Insane man and sword that just wants to destroy evil...where the sword is the voice of reason. 

Sell.

The Vorin church will claim Odium is the true Almighty.

Considering I generally have minimal interest in Shallan I expected to skim this post and never return to it. Imagine my surprise when I ended up reading it all . Nice analysis, maybe I will end up viewing Shallan differently. 

While this is possible I think the main lies Rock was worried about was the fact he is likely something close to royalty, and possibly the heir of a peak now that some of his brothers are dead.

Even if bonded to spren would that increase his strength? Singers change their strength as they bond spren, but they literally change mentally, physically and emotionally with each different bond.

I admit we learnt less of the Bondsmiths than I would have liked in OB.

Nice idea. Wouldn't have thought of the Skybreakers as the Order to "cast out their consciousness" since they seem so feet on the earth kind of people. But maybe that is them compensating. 

Random point on how dfferent orders use their surges. I keep thinking Dalinar should be able to fix the Shattered Plains again. And did we get an idea what the Bondsmith Resonance is?

4 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

I know cover art isn't canon, but based on the cover of The Emperor's Soul, as well as the interior illustration from that section of Arcanum Unbounded, it seems likely that some of the people in MaiPon (which is on Sel, but a long way from where Elantris is set) have epicanthic folds.

That is an easy explanation, I bet the artist was told to make them set in "Asiatic culture" so he put the eyes like that.

I think in Roshar humans got the epicanthic folds after they expanded out of Shinovar, the Shin probably just look like the original people from Ashyn with little variation.

7 minutes ago, Alderant said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shallan's 4th Truth given in Urithiru--after the Alethi army had already been saved? Or are we counting "There's something different about my shardblade from all other shardblades" as her 4th Truth? Because I always thought that that sentence was the preamble to her 4th Truth in Urithiru.

As to your second paragraph, that makes me sad. What about Shallan do you find boring? Is it the fact that she's a scholar/artist, or that she doesn't have a lot of "action"?

I assumed Shallan said half her 4th Truth on the plain to save the army, then had to finish the Truth which is why Pattern forced her to remember. 

On the second part, I don't mind that Shallan is an artist or scholar, I've got 2 main problems with her: 

1. She is a completely unreliable narrator. She can say the sky is blue and it may be red in reality. Figuring out the truth from the lens of a person's perception is fun, but Shallan takes it too far. You never know if what you are reading from her is really happening or not.

2. She changes all the time. She was shy, idealistic, naive and scholastic in WoK. Which I found to be boring but alright. She was blooming, powerful, idealistic and scholastic in WoR. Which seemed to me intriguing and a natural progression. She was a mess who hated scholarship, responsibility and power. Which I found to be exasperating to the point I didn't even want to figure her out, considering those things had been the dreams and goals of her whole 17 years of life. 

It doesn't make me hate her, it just makes me indifferent to her, and slightly annoyed when she takes up book space that another character could be using.