WhiteLeeopard

Special sports:

Coinshots, who can race the fastest in 1,000m across coins without touching the floor.

Skybreakers and Dustbringers, competition in destroying stone faster and more thoroughly. 

1 hour ago, Thanatos said:

But they didnt search Kelsier properly who had back up vials in his mouth. 

Kelsier ends up winning the long jump, high jump, 100 meter sprint, javelin,.. oh wait thats normal Olympics. Kelsier ends coning the Olympic council to include these sports with emotional allomancy then proceeds to win them all.

Then he goes on to win skating, ski'ing, bobsled, snowboarding, etc etc.

I'm imagining Kelsier competing in artistic ice skating and its hilarious .

4 hours ago, Govir said:

Because Dalinar *did* love Evi. They fought, and their marriage wasn't perfect, but he did love her

I'm actually not sure if Dalinar loved Evi. He felt responsible for her, he was fond of her, he loved the firstborn she bore him from the moment he was born, he wanted her to be happy as he thought he should be a good husband. She loved him because Evi was built to love. Did Dalinar love Evi? I honestly don't know. I'm not saying he didn't love her, just that I'm not sure I can draw a conclusion from what I saw on OB. 

Ash is actually nickname for Shalash. While most fans assume she will eventually become a Dustbringer by attracting a spren, I also suspect she will just have access to the Dustbringer power set. At the moment Shalash just seems to hate all that reminds her of her past as the supreme Lightweaver, patron of artists, Herald of beauty and creativity. Part of her madness seems to be that for all intents and purposes Shalash is dead, and Ash has been born with a desire to destroy things.

I think the mindless Unmade are Re-shephir, Ashertmarn and Nergaul. While the second two could be argued to affect the mind thats not exactly what re-shephir does. While the mindless Unmade can be dangerous, I suspect they often need close direction and supervision by Odium or a smarter Unmade. Re-shephir was likely ordered to cover the mega fabrial of Urithiru, but it wasn't too effective when a couple newish KR came down to spook it off. Heart of Revel was likely so dangerous because Sja-anat was directing its efforts. Nergaul was also closely supervised by Odium/fused on Thaylen. And if Odium hadn't been forced to flee I bet he would have stopped Nergaul before Dalinar trapped it.

As a random question...who expects our heroes will still have Nergaul trapped by the end of book 4, considering their history so far at keeping dangerous objects safe?

24 minutes ago, Weltall said:

immediately afterwards Ivory declares that Jasnah made the right choice, even if he doesn't understand what just happened or why.

I had forgotten that part, nice reminder. I think most KR spren end up revolving about doing what they feel is right. With the possible exception of the Skybreakers.

42 minutes ago, Isilel said:

I do wonder how the spren who tried to bond humans in a somewhat organized manner and as a group effort - like they Cryptics, Cultivationspren and likely also the Truthwatcher spren, could have been unaware of Nale's - and the highspren, crusade.  Did Nale trap or even kill the Nahel spren forming those bonds in the process, so that if they weren't watched by their fellows at the time, nobody in the Cognitive, apart from the highspren ever learned what happened to them?

The spren groups could have been aware of Nale and the skybreakers, but willing to risk it anyway. Like I often say, when the end of the world and society is coming, people (and spren) will take a burning branch as a chance, regardless of how unlikely to suceed, over certain death.

48 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Ash and Taln fighting Heralds who joined Odium, I very much hope that no more of them will - IMHO Nale and Ishar (who, I am convinced, is a traitor) are more than enough. In particular, I'd really like female Heralds to shine and redeem themselves, as they have been so obscure and unimportant compared to their male counterparts so far

I'm not too hopeful. After all we have heard that Battar was messing around the Diagram, and there is a soft theory that Vedel was one of the surgeons drawing the blood of victims for Death Rattles. I think Ash and Taln will be genuinely "good" fighting for Honor's side, if continuously struggling with insanity. The others I think will be a mix of insanity, confusion and actions that make little sense or are outright harmful.

I just think Jasnah didn't kill Renarin because he was her cousin. It was a deeply emotional moment, but reason had little to do with it. She just knew in the moment of truth she chose love for her cousin over logic which said he was dangerous. It almost makes me wonder if this will have damaged Jasnah's Oaths since Elsecallers are based entirely on logic and reasoning. 

I just think Renarin is a wildcard in the same way that Venli is. They both have investiture from Odium and Honor (and maybe Cultivation too). The mix of all these Shards which are warring with each other makes a unique meld that means they are hard to predict. Maybe the dual investiture is getting in the way of predictions, or maybe they just become blind spots. 

6 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

Agreed on both points. And Dalinar has so many secrets now! Not just from the coalition, eventually he'll need to tell Adolin and Renarin that he was responsible for their mother's death, which as far as I know he hasn't told anyone yet? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had a chance to tell Adolin anyway.

Honestly...a secret not shared or known is a secret kept . However when you are talking about secrets in private with people you trust, is when things get dicey as a spy or spren can hear all and report. On Evi's death, Dalinar could keep that secret if he wanted to as no-one knows, but he is too honorable and will likely tell it eventually. I just hope Adolin doesn't completely fall appart when he finds out how his mother died. With Renarin there is always the chance he has seen it already.

1 minute ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

I'm re-reading too at it at the moment so I don't want to skip ahead and look it up, but I know T held back some things when talking to Dalinar. I remember him telling him he leaked the information that underminded Dalinar's authority, you may be right and he told him about Szeth too (seems like it would be a prudent course of action as with Szeth following Dalinar he's bound to find out about it eventually).

I think the only reason T came forward was because Szeth came into the picture. What T seems to have held back is the Diagram itself, and made it appear that his ideas and decisions came witht he help of his advisors and of Battar who is in Kharbranth.

Problem is, that if Dalinar has learnt anything in OB it should be to not keep secrets. He should put all on the table, including T's actions. But I fear he won't talk of T knowing the coalition would be destroyed. It would be typical Dalinar to keep a secret to maintain the coalition only for that secret to be the cause of its complete destruction later on. The only thing to give us hope on T's genious actions (sarcasm) is Cultivation's mysterious hand moving events and her ability to play the long game with nearly invisible strings.

28 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I'm quite surprised after reading a good chunk of these comments. I knew Evi would die but I had hoped it would be more like a lesser evil choice that he would have to make, not something that happened accidentally. That being said, maybe I'm the weird one here but I was pissed at Evi. I thought she deserved to die. She was stupid and ineffective. 2 things are of issue here.

1. The monster is part of who Dalinar was at the time. It always bothers me when someone can't accept a person for who they are and try to change a part of them hoping to only keep the parts of that person that they like. I find it incredibly selfish of her. She leaves her homeland and happens upon a High Prince whom she decides to marry and can't handle everything that he is. That's her problem. 

2. The betrayal that was committed upon Dalinar was horrendous. Dalinar was trying to "satiate" Evi in the first place. (which is part of why i'm pissed at Evi. She made him feel bad for his bloodlust and then gutted him into saving lives. When he does do it, he gets betrayed/massacred and when he response in the only appropriate way, she goes and gets herself caught. Stupid.) When he's betrayed it's obvious he needs to at least make Tanalan pay significantly for his idiocy. The man was an idiot in the first place for claiming that "his father's sword wasn't taken through 'honour'". He's got a stupid personal vendetta against Dalinar and Dalinar's trying to do the honest thing to stop the death and he is responded in kind with betrayal and the death of his men. Any person should be able to see that retribution is necessary. Instead, Evi get's in the way, sneaks off and dies.

I'm honestly glad Evi died. She didn't accept him for who he was and then got in his way when he had a job he needed to do. 

Yes, I kind of agree. In general I think everyone at the Rift did very stupid decisions. But Evi is definetely on the list as well for the reasons you listed. Its okay to try to curb some of the worst impulses in a person but you shouldn't be angry/upset at them if you fail. Of course Dalinar was affected by an external source, and if I were a mother I would be majorly pissed at how he treated Renarin. 

2 hours ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Dalinar doesn't know yet, right? I would think upon Szeth swearing to Dalinar the first thing Dalinar would do is question Szeth as to who sent him. I guess he's just assumed Szeth was working for the Parshendi the whole time. You think Szeth would volunteer the information himself ("by the way, your closest ally ordered me to kill you and all the other monarchs") but maybe some part of the truthless code prevents him from divulging what a previous master ordered him to do.

Szeth was never truthless, so no part of those rules apply to him and he knows it. Problem is Szeth is not too good at sharing information. He may make an exception for Dalinar as he has sworn to follow him as his Third Oath, which is pretty big, but we'll see.

I'm slowly re-reading OB, so can't say with certainty, but I think T himself told Dalinar about using Szeth to kill the monarchs. Of course T did it because he wanted to put his own spin on things and assumed the moment he saw Szeth around that he would divulge all to Dalinar. 

1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

He first killed Gavilar, that is where he got his name as the assassin in white.

If they really want to, the other rulers can claim killing Gavilar was the first step in making a power grab by Dalinar. After all, Dalinar was never going to have the kind of power he has now if Gavilar had been alive.

Axies will likely appear, as I think there was a WoB about it.

We may find out how and when the Listeners splintered away from the Singers to leave behind Odium.

Venli will likely be spreading Listener culture among the Singers, about choice, free will and deciding who you are. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the book she must either flee with her followers or side with the humans during a crucial battle. 

I think we may see onscreen with bigger roles a couple more Heralds, maybe Ishar and Battar since they were both briefly mentioned in OB.

Taravangian will muddle through things with the Diagram as usual.

9 hours ago, RShara said:

The current prevailing theory is that BAM is stuck in a gemstone and hidden somewhere.  She might be in the gemstone Gavilar gave to Szeth, who then hid it somewhere in Jah Keved.

Are we then assuming the other gemstone which Gavilar gave Eshonai had Yelig-nar? It puts a whole other spin on Gavilar handing out Unmade like candy...

While we got a good idea of where the majority of the Unmade are/were and what tasks they were up to, there are still some that are complete question marks. Considering the war is full out by now it makes no sense that Odium wouldn't have whipped them out of their slumber and sent them somewhere to further his cause. So, to go Unmade by Unmade.

Ashertman: Was in Kholinar weakening the city lighteyes and any semblance of order.

Moelach: Reason for the Death Rattles. Is believed to be on the Horneater peaks.

Nergaul: Was fully active on the Thaylen battle, currently stuck inside a gem where Dalinar put him.

Re-Shephir: Causing mayhem in Urithiru, unclear where it went next.

Sja-anat: Weakening Kholinar. 

Yelig-nar: First seen on Kholinar inside Aseduan, then on Thaylen battle possesing Amaram. 

So, any theories or ideas where Ba-Ado-Mishram, Chemoarish and Dai-Gonarthis were? The first is possibly one of the smartest and most self-aware of the Unmade, can recharge voidlight and often acted as a general. The other two are almost entirely unknown on powers and abilities. My theory is that at least one more Unmade is on the Horneater peaks, since controlling the perpendicularity seems to be high up the list of priorities for Odium. Maybe Chemoarish, since the Black Fisher seems to be a big gun, that would likely be moved for massive destruction, conquering or battles. 

The other idea I keep coming up with is how the Iri and Rirans sided with Odium so easily. Most of the Unmade are east, and so seems to be much of Odium's focus. This may seem logical since the west is more peaceful, has (apparently) less KR and half of it has already sided with Odium. However, it still does not seem smart to leave the surrendered lands (or whatever they are) without supervision. Leaving an Unmade in charge of organizing Iriali, the Reshi islands and Rira seems plausible, and the best candidate for this is possibly Ba-Ado-Mishram. Intelligent, capable, often compared to a highprincess and a general...seems perfect to put in charge of running the west while the rest of Odium's forces conquer the east. 

I am however drawing up mostly blank on any semi-strong ideas where the last Unmade could be. Only idea is possibly heading towards Tukar and Ishar. However we know so little of what Ishar is doing (other than he is completely insane) that I am wary of even contemplating which side of the conflict he is batting for. Then again if insane Ishar is mobilizing a nation someway against Odium sending Dai-Gonarthis, who is theorized to be responsible for the scouring of Aimia seems a good idea. But somehow I doubt Ishar is doing something useful in any way, shape or form for humanity's side.

Any ideas or theories of where the 3 unaccounted for Unmade are would be welcome . 

I made this thread soon after I finished OB, then it quickly fell under the onslaught of 20 threads created daily back on the first week. I am genuinely curious on what people think to this question, so I really hope no-one minds that I brought it back to see if more people that finished OB and had time to theorize could give their opinions on the poll.  

19 hours ago, maxal said:

I also find the idea Shallan is unable to have a child because she is too messed up is too modern for Roshar. Whether or not to have a child, for a married couple, is a very recent questioning: my own parents didn't have much of those questions. Back in their days, you got married, you had children, period. You didn't ponder as to whether or not you are advanced enough in your personal growth to have them. If you didn't want children, you didn't get married. Hence promoting the idea Shallan will have the reflective capacities and the insights of 21st century teenagers is really... asking for a different context all together. She is likely to just get pregnant without having had the time to really think about it.

 I hadn't thought of it, but you are right. A few hundred years ago there was only one reason to marry: to have children. Love or even friendship was nice, but a far third (second was to make an alliance between two groups). This went triple for highborns. It was also expected to have their first child within the year of consumation. History is full of recorded cases of queens and ladies giving birth when they were as young as 12. The idea of been too young to have children is fully from the 21st century, not even for most of the 20th century was this truly a concern. Of course with all the end of the world going on right now in Roshar it may be considered an exceptional time, but it seems unlikely. 

I'm also curious how far Venli will get with the singers during the 1 year gap, as a year is a very long time to set down roots for a rebellion or to grasp power. If that is what she wants, Venli is not too predictable.

Maybe someone can end up bonding Sja-anat and becoming the 4th bondsmith. 

While I want to trust her, it seems difficult to believe she would just want to defect. Void spren don't seem to be mistreated or hurt, so why does she say she wants "a better home for her children"? Why try to defect when humanity's side seems to be loosing? And while I'd say set up a test to see if she is trustworthy, I can't come up with something binding.

Another loop on the Sja-anat question is that the GB want Shallan to bind the Unmade to serve them.

21 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

There's a theory that the Everstorm is a Perpendicularity, and that crossing over through one of those as opposed to "the normal way" lets them keep their minds more intact.

That doesn't work when Ulim had been with Venli helping her find the forms long before the Everstorm came. 

This actually bothers me, since voidspren seem "maxed" both on the physical and cognitive realm, as we see on Shadesmar. I don't understand why if it is possible to make spren cognizant in all realms H and C would make their spren dumb in the physical world without a human to bond with. It cannot be to force the KR to appear, as it almost seemed like KR were an accident in happenstance when spren copied what H did for the Honorpact.

Its a well thought out idea, so have an upvote and a cookie as welcome to the Shard . 

I don't think Honor betrayed Odium like you say, for several reasons. Honor can't break oaths is a big one. We know Odium has been splintering Shards, and that was always his list of to dos since the breaking of Adonalsium. Finally Odium only cares about humans as a 2nd or 3rd point of his priorities. But the idea was not bad, and there are always twists upon twists in these books, so you never know what you may find.

Only thing I'm almost certain will happen on the time skip is increase of KR, troops movements and minor battles. 

What I'm most curious what will happen during the year is from Szeth, Ash and Taln. I guess Taln could be semi-comatose for the entire year, but Szeth and Ash know too much, and are very well known figures. Just their presence would be quite a splash, that I can't imagine not appearing on-screen, either at the time or a flashback. I would love to see an eventual fight between Ash and Taln and some of the Heralds siding with Odium .

While I am fine with eventual death and 9/10 casualties, doing that from the start is not smart, as if that happens humans just lose all hope, or do crazy things from the beginning. Plus we already saw a nearly planet wide destruction on HoA.

On Iri: they didn't want the Plate for an alliance. They wanted the Plate just to begin talking to each other. 

I like the theory. My main question is what Honor and Cultivation did during all this time and why. They seem to be the original Singer gods, so why end up siding with humanity, which then made the Singers turn to Odium? I assume that trapping Odium in Braize also happened around this time period, but why leave the Singers to their luck?

There seemed to be some hints there was only one Bondsmith at the time of the Recreance, which is part of why the Recreance happened. At the moment the chances the bondsmith was bonded to the Sibling are high. Even if the breaking of the Oaths didn't kill the spren, as it was stronger than a normal KR spren, the Sibling would have likely been injured or hurt. 

Back to OP, I'm really curious why humans and Odium came at almost the same time as it leads to so many questions. Did Odium have any hand on the humans breaking of their original planet? If so why bother, and where did humans get their original power/surges from? Finally, why does the SF keep calling Dalinar and Kaladin Son of Honor, when Tanavast was clearly not their creator or even original god?

After reading OB I no longer think that Venli had felt stormform before, although I used to think that after WoR. Now I simply believe Eshonai was overwhelmed, and to an extent mind pushed just like Marsh because she was for all intents the Listener leader. The voidspren focused on Eshonai as once they got control of her even for a few weeks they could kick start the Desolation. Then they could (and would have) gotten rid of her for someone more pliable. Venli was likely left alone because she had "proven her loyalty" to the cause.

It is quite likely they could have controlled Venli through her voidspren if they had wanted to, but why bother? She was fully loyal to them on WoR, and I think to an extent Odium/Fused respect some kind of free will and strong minds... so long as they choose their side. My reasoning for this:

1. The Fused smiled creepily and gave Moash their blessing to do whatever he wanted when he was with them after he demanded to speak with the bosses.

2. When at the end of OB Venli shouted at a Fused to leave her alone as she choose not to fight, the Fused walked away happily. 

3. Hoid at the end of OB thinks "the parsh with their bowing and scraping still hadn't figured out that did not impress the Fused", or something along those lines.

4. I think at some point in OB they say the Fused didn't act subservient to Odium, respectful yes, but not ridiculously so.

Overall I think Eshonai was mind pushed/pulled, but it may not have been the Fused's preferred choice under normal circumstances. Venli was likely left alone this long as they were grudginly grateful to her and trusted her. However I'm sure they will try to control her in the future when she starts making too many waves. Let;s hope she has an escape/fighting plan for when that happens and fails thanks to Timbre .