Starla

Nice to meet a fellow fangirl and writer. Kaladin reminds me of one of my own characters, so I think that gives me a soft spot in my heart for him. Regarding your discussion of the Helaran situation, I don’t think it is guaranteed to cause huge issues between Shallan and Kaladin. My main concern is that Shallan will learn that Helaran was up to no good, and the truth of that realization will shatter her illusion of him. She has put him on a pedestal as the only member of her family who was not broken by their father. Growing up, he was like a knight in shining armor to her and symbolized her hope of escape. If she learns he was less than honorable, it could be a big blow for her. I hope she learns Kaladin’s part of it directly from him, though some of it could come from the Ghostbloods. We don’t know all of what Helaran was up to, but at the very least he slaughtered soldiers who did not attack him, including injured men lying on the field with the medical flag raised. That’s not a good view of Helaran and I doubt Shallan will take it well. If she trusts Kaladin’s story, I believe she will be discerning enough to know that Helaran’s actions are not Kaladin’s fault and she’ll understand why he did what he did. She killed her own father for similar reasons, to protect people she loves. Thanks for posting these survey results. I remember seeing it a while back and being surprised by the results. When I first joined the forum I read through all 150+ pages of Stormlight posts, along with all of the WOK and WOR reread posts and comments on Tor.com (crazy I know, it took months). My overall impression was that a lot of people didn’t like Kaladin, especially after WOR. I got the sense that it was mostly due to his ongoing depression, anger, and pessimism which led to him breaking his oaths. Perhaps many of the 81 Kaladin fans in the survey are less vocal than fans of the other characters, but I am happy to see a few here on this thread. At least with Sadeas dead, we don’t have to worry about Shadeas being thrown around. Though Shabariel is still in the mix.

I'd like to hear Jasnah's oaths. I wonder if the radiants ever discuss their oaths with each other? Maybe we could get a scene where she tells Dalinar or Shallan the oaths she's said so far, so we can get a sense of what Elsecallers are about.

I usually don't comment on this debate because I’m not much of a “shipper.” I like reading romantic sub-plots in fantasy, but I usually go along with whatever the author chooses to write. The same goes with this case, I have confidence that BS will write something interesting with good conflicts and character building. I like all three characters involved, and am excited to watch it develop. However, one thing that makes me a little sad to read in the endless shipping debate is that somehow Kaladin’s thoughts and feeling usually get pushed to the side. Much of the debate is what is best for Shallan and/or Adolin, and Kaladin is something of an afterthought at best, or at worst it is seen as gross or horrific for Shallan to end up with him. Perhaps this is because, as @Dreamstorm points out, people seem to like Adolin better, and want to look out for his best interest. They want him to be happy. I totally get that, because as a Kaladin fan-girl myself (there I admit it), my hope is that he gets what he wants and needs. He's had a rough life and he needs a little love and support too. It could be close friendships, romantic relationships, or bromances, but whatever it is, I’d like to see him get some happiness thrown his way. To point out one example of Kaladin as an afterthought, note this from @eveorjoy post (which I enjoyed, by the way!): This looks like Kaladin is being used to resolve Shallan’s mental issues, only to be pushed aside when she’s healed and can go back to Adolin. If Kaladin truly likes Shallan, this could really hurt him. It would also serve to increase his distrust of lighteyes. I’d rather skip the whole Shalladin thing if it is only going to end with him hurt and sinking into another bout of dark despair. Several times I have seen people mention “Kaladin just needs to find a nice dark-eyed girl.” This sounds very racist/classist to me. This is saying Kaladin has dark eyes, and therefore he should try to stay in his own class and date girls with dark eyes. Personally, I think it would be very interesting for Kaladin to have a loving and trusting relationship with a light-eyed woman. It would go a long way to help diffuse his distrust of lighteyes, and it would serve as an example to others that the classism of separating people people by eye color is kind of random and ridiculous. This being said, I’m not fully convinced that Shallan is the light-eyed woman for this role. I love Shallan, but she has her own deep-seated issues with darkeyes passed down from her father, who wouldn't let her draw them. She automatically thinks of them as peasants, as noted in the recent chapter, and Kaladin would work best with a woman who is more open minded about these things and isn't put off by his eye color. I’m not sure we’ve met a woman like that in the story yet, so I’m not holding my breath on this to happen any time soon. To sum up, I don’t quite understand why the idea of Kaladin and Shallan is so offensive to people. Perhaps it’s just because he’s not Adolin, and that makes him the wrong choice for her. But it hurts to see so much negativity towards him when he’s really a decent guy who deserves to be happy too.

I don't know, that sounds like torture to me. It takes ten heartbeats to revive the spren enough for the blade to manifest, the spren is screaming while it is semi-alive, then it is killed again when the blade is dismissed. Revived temporarily then killed over and over for thousands of years. Combine this with Syl and Stormfather's reactions to dead spren blades, and it sounds pretty inhumane. Likewise, I have concerns about the spren trapped in fabrials. What is their level of awareness or sentience? Are they killed when they are trapped, or are they imprisoned alive? I know they are not nearly as aware as the nahel bond spren, but I still worry for their well-being. I realize the shardbearers and fabrial-makers don't fully understand spren and the possible harm they might be causing to sentient beings, but I would hope they would carefully consider their actions when they find out. Unfortunately, I have a feeling many won't care about the spren.

@Nymeros I agree with others who say Kaladin has a natural talent with the spear. I'm currently re-reading WOK and read this scene yesterday: Kal was 12 years old here and not yet bonded to Syl. He also trained hard for years with the spear after Tien died. Syl told him she has been looking for him for a long time and "the wind knew him," but her memory and bond with him only began late into his time in Amaram's army, about a year before she first talked to him in the slave wagon. I think he clearly had some skill with the spear before she came along. The bond amplified it to the point where no one can really match his skill with a spear at this point. Regarding Kaladin not being able to throw a spear with the bum leg, anyone with martial arts training knows that throwing a weapon comes from the feet, legs, and hips. Without a strong rooted connection to the ground, a thrust is just arms flailing about with no real force behind it. The throw would be a dud and the weapon would hit the ground. Regarding the OP, I agree with others who think squires are a great strength. I cannot wait to see them all working together in unison. I hope they can all travel together with gravitation, otherwise the squires will be constantly running to try and catch up to wherever Kaladin is.

@scifan You're right, it would need to come from the guys Kaladin has helped. I doubt Kaladin himself even acknowledges he's done anything to help. He tends think he's failed everyone in some way. I primarily want Lirin to know Kaladin isn't going around killing everyone. Lirin is a total pacifist and he seemed to be very put off by Kaladin being a soldier and having a shardblade. It would be nice for him to understand that Kaladin did not have to kill to gain his shardblade, and that he will only use it in defense of someone's life. I'd also love for him to know that Kaladin was spending his puny slave wage to purchase medical supplies to stitch up wounded bridgemen on the battlefield. I hope Lirin eventually comes to realize he's raised a good son, and be proud of him.

I'm looking forward to Shallan's brothers arriving at Urithiru. How will they react to the fact that their shy little sister is a Knight Radiant? I also love the idea mentioned upthread about Lirin and Hesina meeting Bridge 4 and finding out all that Kaladin has done to save their lives. I love it when people realize how awesome their friends/loved ones are.

If Shallan begins looking at the details of the murder investigation, I bet Pattern will be able to solve it quickly. I think he would be world's best homicide detective, putting clues together, seeing the relationship between all the parts, finding things that don't fit. He's spren equivalent of Monk. What if he figures out Adolin killed Sadeas? Does Shallan keep this info to herself or approach Adolin? Wait for him to tell her? It would be interesting to see how she handles it.

This week's chapter reminds me of the Oathbringer description on Amazon: "Kaladin Stormblessed must come to grips with the fact that the newly kindled anger of the parshmen may be wholly justified." I think Kaladin will use his opportunity as a "prisoner" to talk to the parshmen and gain an understanding of their situation. He will probably empathize with them as freed slaves. I agree that he may not be the best long-term leader for the freed parshmen, but I believe he will want to protect them and serve as an advocate to humans and other radiants who may not be as sympathetic. I am concerned most humans will want to mass-slaughter all the parshmen, even in their non-violent forms, because they could potentially become voidbringers in the future. Hopefully Kaladin can work in unison with a Listener leader like Rlain or Eshonai to prevent this from happening. It might be the only way to prevent the entire race of parshmen from turning on humans and voluntarily taking stormform. They could be allies with humans if this can be prevented.

@Hischier I think the mountains surrounding it are at least as tall as the tower. So from a distance, people would only see a normal mountain range. Think of a single mountain in the center of the Himalayas being carved into a pyramid-like structure. No one would know it was there unless they flew over the mountain range or happened upon it by foot, which seems pretty difficult since it contains sheer cliffs and peaks above cloud level.

Ah, thanks for the info. That makes it more difficult to keep safe. I still think one of the radiants should bond/dismiss it to keep it hidden, and only summon it or give it to someone else in extreme cases of need. Anyone could find it if it is physically hidden in Urithiru, and pulling it out to open oathgates puts it and its bearer at risk. At the very least people will think it's a shardblade and may try to fight for it. After what Szeth did with it, I'm concerned with it falling into the wrong hands and giving a bad guy too much power, without the oaths to balance it out.

Does someone need to be bonded to an honorblade have access to it's surges? If not, I think the safest place for it is to have someone strong and trustworthy bond it without telling anyone (or telling a trusted few like Dalinar and Kaladin), then lend it out to whoever needs it. This will allow them to summon it back if it ever falls into the wrong hands or if the person using it dies. I think this should be a radiant since they are extremely hard to kill. I am assuming the radiant spren would not mind this bond since an honor blade is not a dead spren. I also noticed this in the wiki: "if the Herald holding the blade dies, the weapon itself vanishes too." I'm curious to know what would happen to the Windrunner blade if someone were bonded to it and Jezrien dies.

Maybe the 1000 escaped non-stormform Parshendi can help with this. Hopefully they survived Everstorm/Highstorm clash. It would be a waste of an interesting alliance between Parshendi and Humans if they died or were transformed by the storm. I am also holding out hope that Eshonai survived the fall into the chasm and can somehow overcome the voidspren. Maybe she came so close to death that the voidspren left her, and the good Parshendi find her and help her transform back to warform.

I hope someone tries to find a way to prevent the transformation. Slave-form parshmen are innocent, child-like beings who have been enslaved by humans for generations. They are not seeking to become agents of Odium intentionally. Killing them without trying to prevent the transformation would be horrific in my opinion. It would be like mass killing people who are susceptible to catching or spreading a contagious disease rather than trying to find a cure or vaccination for the disease. At the very least, I think the armies should try to gather the untransformed parshmen together and quarantine them away from the everstorm until a better solution can be found. This would be a tough job, but it would be better than mindless mass genocide.

@ccstat Thank you for this post! I am fascinated by the Urithiru architecture, and have been thinking about it's design and layout. I have collected all the references to it with the intent to attempt a drawing when I get time. Fortunately, I think we'll have a drawing in Oathbringer. I'm pretty sure I saw it confirmed somewhere recently, perhaps via WOB or WOP on reddit. I am guessing the tower itself is a natural mountain with a sheer cliff face on the eastern side, sitting within a ring of taller mountains. The mountain has been carved into a semi-circle stepped pyramid shape. I would guess that each floor + ceiling is taller than you suggest, and the base and terraces for each level are wider than your drawing. I imagine it like a giant wedding cake, where each 18-level tier has a wide terrace with gardens. I believe it is much bigger than any man-made structure we have on Earth. If you think of a standard size mountain sitting within a mountain range high enough to be hundreds of feet above the cloud line.... it's pretty darn big. I also love the descriptions of the stripes and swirls of multi-colored strata on the interior. And the open central shaft with the balcony lifts and gigantic single-paned window. Hopefully we'll also get some drawings of the inside. I look forward to expanding on your post as we get more chapters released!

Per this quote in chapter 8, it seems sprenblade is required to operate the oathgate: "Plus, there wasn’t much of her to go around. Only an active, full Knight Radiant could work the control buildings at the center of each platform, initiating the swap. For now, that meant only Shallan.

It's an interesting thought, but I doubt it would happen in Renarin's case. Most of the Bridge Four guys all went through hell together when they ran bridges, sat by Kaladin when he nearly died from the highstorm, helped him when he was exploring his surgebinding abilities, and they all chose to give up their escape plans and risk their lives to help save Dalinar and his army. I think this all bonded them together and displayed traits in alignment with the Windrunner ideals. Renarin and some of the more recent additions to Bridge Four (Lopens cousins) weren't present for any of that, and I believe Kaladin kept his abilities hidden from them until the fight with Szeth, when he came out to everyone. That being said, it doesn't rule out the possibility for one radiant to become the squire of another if they are closely bonded in some way. It will be interesting to see if it ever happens and how their abilities are affected.

I'm a little concerned about the thousands of people waiting at the Narak oathgate. It sounds like they'll be stuck there until they get some more stormlight to open the gate. Do all of these people have to wait on top of the plateaus or can they stay inside the old ruins of the city? What happens when the next everstorm or highstorm rolls through? Also, it seems like Shallan's brothers should have made it to the oathgate by now, but there is no mention of them. It seems ominous that spanreeds to the queen are going unanswered. It makes me think she and her scribes are no longer in the palace. Is she dead and/or in hiding? Why didn't she take her spanreed with her, at least one to Navani or Elhokar? I hope Kaladin makes his way there quickly so we can see what's happening. (And speaking of spanreeds, it is confirmed they do require stormlight. Now we know!) Interesting that Renarin is still wearing his Bridge Four uniform. He gets more and more mysterious by the chapter. I am holding out hope that there is nothing nefarious going on with him, and that what others interpret as "creepy" is just him being quiet and confused about how to interact with the world and his new abilities. Can't wait to be inside his head. It is strange to hear people calling Kaladin brightlord! He didn't seem to blink an eye. I love that's he's embracing his destiny so quickly. I know some folks think that two books of moping and reluctance is too long, but just coming off a Wheel of Time reread, I impressed that it took him fewer to 12 books to become his awesome powerful self. And the scene with baby Oroden was too sweet for words. It sounds like Kaladin flew Shallan up to one of the mountain peaks at some point. It's awesome that he's able to carry people around. I hope he can take some of the bridge four guys with him in the future, it's no fun having them split apart. Most importantly, I really want to see Shallan’s surrealistic architectural drawings.

The recent discussion of spanreeds has made me ponder the lifts in Urithiru. I assume they also used paired gemstones, like the archer lifts that Navani developed in WOR. They must be super powerful to move multiple people 180 floors. What happens if they run out of stormlight in the weeping? Hopefully there are stairs in the tower, and everyone will be getting plenty of exercise. Also, from now on I will think of Einstein's "spooky action at a distance" when considering how these paired fabrials work.

I assumed that all fabrials need stormlight to function, including spanreeds. I read the spanreed coppermind article, and it doesn't say one way or the other. If there is no infused spheres in Hearthstone, they might be completely out of communication with the outside world, and Kaladin can't surgebind. It will probably take him weeks to travel to Kholinar by foot. Hopefully the highstorms start back up soon so he's not trapped there for long.

I think Kaladin has the advantage with Syl in spear form. He's as good a spear fighter as Szeth is a sword fighter. Kal can move out of Szeth's sword reach and throw the spear in a killing blow to the chest/spine. Even if Szeth deflects the spear, Syl can instantly appear in Kaladin's hands as a spear again, and he can throw again and again until he hits the right spot. I think distance would give anyone with a throwing weapon the advantage over someone with a sword, no matter how good the sword fighter is.

In addition to things others have mentioned, I am looking forward to: Shallan reuniting with her brothers, and how they react to her new status as a KR. Someone opening the other oathgates so people can travel freely around Roshar. The battle on the Oathbringer cover.

As I mentioned in my last post, I don’t see Kaladin’s tendency to help injured people having anything to do with additional radiant abilities, Edgedancer or otherwise. I’m saying that it’s his natural human instinct to to go into surgeon mode to help people around him who are wounded. I also don’t think it has anything to do with Tien, since it happened both before and after before Tien died. Remember the girl in Hearthstone he tried to save and couldn’t. He was devastated by that, just as he is devastated on the battlefield when he can’t save someone. Since becoming Captain of Dalinar’s guard, he hasn’t had the time or opportunity to practice his surgeon skills. He's been insanely busy trying to tend all of his duties. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t help a wounded person if the need presents itself. I don’t see him leaving someone bleeding on the ground to die out of “hatred." This instinct to heal requires a certain amount of selflessness and compassion for others, and I think he has it.

I don't agree with this. Think of all the injured bridgemen he helped on bridge runs, even those of other teams who had ridiculed bridge four. He risked getting into serious trouble to strap injured men to the top of bridges so they didn't die on the field. He also organized the knobweed collection to help the injured men. Not to mention he chose to give up bridge four's escape plan to go and help (lighteyed) Dalinar's army in what looked like a lost cause. He did all of this to help others, at great risk to himself. I think all of these actions indicate compassion and empathy. I have a feeling that if Kaladin returns to Hearthstone and finds people injured from the Everstorm, he will not hesitate to go into surgeon mode to help them, whether his father is there or not. I don't see this being related to any of the other radiant orders as the OP theorizes, I think it is his natural tendency to help people in need.

I recognized the name the the first time I read WOR, so went back and searched both books for instances of "Hav." He shows up three times in WOK and twice in WOR. I'm pretty sure its the same guy. It seems like he had a big influence on Kaladin, so I'm hoping they cross paths again at some point. Perhaps Hav comes to Urithiru with Amaram. From WOK: Chapter 21 (after the highstorm): "Curse you, Hav, he thought. You can boot me out of my bunk even now. Kaladin threw off his blanket, forcing himself to stand. Chapter 44 (Amaram recruits soldiers in Hearthstone): Amaram regarded the crowd. “The recruits may bring two changes of clothing and up to three stoneweights of other possessions. They will be weighed. Report to the army in two hours and ask for Sergeant Hav.” He turned and followed Roshone. Cheaper 57 (bridge run): Many people were dying on the other side of the chasm, but Kaladin didn’t feel a thing for them. No itch to heal them, no desire to help. Kaladin could thank Hav for that, for training him to think in terms of “us” and “them." From WOR: Chapter 16 (Kaladin meets Zahel): I wonder if Hav is in one of these monasteries somewhere, Kaladin thought idly. What would he think of me now? He’d probably be proud. He always had seen guard duty as the most respectable of a soldier’s assignments. Chapter 52 (Shallan sneaking into Amaram's house): “Oh, stop harassing the lad, Hav,” the other soldier said. “You can’t expect him to know rules that half the soldiers don’t even know yet.” “On with you,” Hav said, waving Shallan through. And again same chapter: Amaram and Hav walked up through the night, speaking softly. “. . . I didn’t notice that the girl had seen me talking to the messenger, Highlord,” Hav was saying. “She must have realized . . .” He trailed off as they saw Shallan.