Starla

@SLNC I thought that at first, but then wondered why they wouldn't lash everyone to the Shattered Plains oathgate if they can surgebind. Kaladin could use gravitation after the second oath, and they've been practicing, so it should be possible if they have stormlight. Maybe there were too many people to carry. @Kurkistan Interesting theory about keeping a connection to Kaladin when he's in Shadesmar. It's not truly another place. I guess he would have travelled out of range after a few days, but it might have worked for long enough to get them out of Kholinar. I was also wondering why they travelled down toward the sea in Southern Alethkar. It seems like a random place in the middle of nowhere.

I put it third. My order is Way of Kings Words of Radiance Oathbringer My favorite part of any book, no matter what genre, is the characters. To truly love a story, I have to feel what they are feeling and be emotionally invested what happens to them. I live the story through their eyes. The first two books had wonderful character development and I felt everything from joy to anger to despair to a sense of wonder, right alongside the characters. It's what sucked me into this story so deeply. I also love character interactions, how they relate to each other and respond to interesting or shocking situations. I didn't feel much of that in Oathbringer. As many have mentioned in other threads, several key scenes between characters seem to be missing: Jasnah's arrival in Urithiru, Szeth showing up on Team Dalinar, Navani and family learning of Elhokar's death, the Helaran conversation between Kaladin and Shallan, Adolin killing Sadeas, Lifts's interactions with the rest of the cast, the radiant road trip to Thaylen City, etc. These scenes would have brought the reader more emotionally into the story, and I missed having that feeling of closeness with the characters. Especially Shallan, I felt like I couldn't relate to her at all in this book due to the extended depth of her identity issues. By the end of the book I have no idea if she's getting better or worse, nor have any sense of where she goes from here. That said, the magic and worldbuilding in this book are tremendous, and those are are my second and third favorite qualities in a fantasy book. Unlike many others, I loved the Shadesmar sequence and the look into the lives of the spren. This partially makes up for lack of character depth, but it still leaves me feeling a bit empty at the end, like I watched a ton of cool stuff happen, but I didn't feel much of it.

I wonder if Skar and Drehy have a nahel bond at the end of the book. Here is the quote: Does this mean they swore the second oath? Or do squires automatically uphold their radiant's oaths? Also, how sad that little Gavinor has haunted eyes. I wonder how much he will retain of what happened at the palace. Perhaps this sufficient trauma for him to attract a spren. ("You get a spren! And you get a spren!...")

I think the point is that they've been set up as friends since book 1. Kaladin considered Moash his closest friend in Bridge Four, the only one who thought of him as an equal rather than a superior. They are both darkeyed men of a similar age who have loved ones who have been harmed or killed by lighteyes, so they shared a common distrust of ligheteyed society. They also both are natural fighters and respect each other on that level, to the point where Kaladin gave Moash his shards. These shared traits have resulted in a bit of a bromance. This all ended in WOR the moment Moash tried to kill his bro to get revenge on Elhokar. And now we have an epic tale of besties turned enemies. One chose the light side and one chose the dark side, and it's bound to lead to some sort of confrontation in the end, likely with one of them getting killed.

I don't think Shallan has her personality issues under control at all. I felt like she was the only character to regress in this book, and am highly concerned for her. @StormingTexan I talked about that Lightsong painting earlier in the thread. I'm pretty sure it's the same one. I love Lightsong so it makes me very happy to see a reference to him here, and that Kaladin was drawn to the same painting.

Thanks for looking up those stats @IntentAwesome. Obviously Dalinar doesn't mean "bridgeman" in a derogatory way, and I doubt Navani and Jasnah do either. I wonder if the term is changing in meaning? The original function of the bridgemen is now obsolete since the war on the shattered plains is over. All of Sadeas' bridge crews now have a place of honor amongst the Kholin army. The bridgeman salute has become a sign of respect amongst the regular soldiers. Many of the bridgemen are proud of their time carrying bridges, as shown in the wonderful scene of the last bridge carry in Oathbringer. Maybe "bridgeman" is now a symbol of a person who went through hell and survived, sort of an honorific title? That said, I don't think Shallan means it as a term of respect. I think Adolin's use is affectionate, especially when he uses "bridgeboy" as opposed to "bridgeman." ETA: Speaking of nicknames, I also found it nice that the Stormfather called Kaladin "Stormblessed" when talking to Dalinar at one point. I think that's high praise coming from overprotective grumpy dad.

I think their differing qualities existed prior to the attraction of their magical companions. Kaladin's drive to protect people brought Syl to him, and Maosh's "passion" and actions with the Singers attracted the Fused and Odium's attention. Also, Kaladin's choice to protect Elhokar at the end of WOR was all him. Syl was gone at that point. He risked his live to protect someone he doesn't like, whereas Moash risked his friend's life to kill someone he doesn't like. I also find it interesting that there is a death rattle about Moash and Kaladin: "All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds." So, do we think that Kaladin and Moash are being set up to be Honor's Champion and Odium's Champion?

@GoddessIMHO This is what I'm having trouble putting aside. I care about Shallan's well being and sincerely want her to heal. I know she is strong, she has proven that multiple times in the first two books. However it is clear she has been falling apart since she acknowledged her involvement in her mother's death. It's only been two Rosharan months full of non-stop action since that huge truth, and she needs time to heal and ground herself. It appears that she has decided to look to Adolin to find her ground. The line "without you I fade" is so concerning. It means she is relying on him to be able to function properly. I know it is common for people to look for strength and comfort in relationships, but Shallan is not some random normal person. She is our main female protagonist, a Knight Radiant, and we want her to be awesome. As a female, I relate to her and want her to be strong and capable and to stand on her own two feet. Kaladin and Dalinar have had such growth. Nobody saved them, they saved themselves. I want Shallan to have the same strength, but as of the end of this book, I feel like she has just given all of her power away to another person. She is relying on Adolin to prop her up, to keep her from fading. Note that I would have felt just as disappointed if she chosen Kaladin in her current state. I'm all for romance, but not at the expense of the individual character development. Perhaps she can find her power within the marriage without relying on Adolin for it, but my hopes for Shallan's development as a Bad chull Super Radiant Woman are greatly diminished. (<---yes! another "chull." I love those. )

I've wondered about this too. Perhaps it has to do with Jezrien dying in this book, or Honor's Champion or something more. I've also wondered about his relationship with Syl. Several of her comments over the three books sounded like she was looking for him specifically, rather than a random Windrunner-y type person. She said in this book that she was waiting for him to call for her. She is one of the few (only?) spren left from before the recreance, and probably the closest to Honor. She was one of the first spren created by the stormfather after Honor was killed and the SF became his cognitive shadow, and the other Honor spren seem to hold her in high regard, since they had everyone in Shadesmar looking for her. The fact that she ran away and risked losing herself to bond Kaladin against the will of the Stormfather and other Honor spren seems important. Also, there is also a WOB where someone told Brandon that he named his son Kaladin, and he hopes he doesn't regret it by the end of the story, and Brandon says something like "you'll be very happy naming your son that." This has always given me hope that, at the very least, he won't become Odium's Champion. I'm not sure how I would feel about this if he becomes more than a radiant. Sometimes I have a tendency to like overpowered bad chull super hero types, but I also love his interactions on a human level and wouldn't want to see that disappear. Whatever happens, I think Kaladin, Dalinar, and Shallan's presence in the next two books will be about the same as they have been in the last three, then diminish in the back five. I think it is a term of endearment too, especially coming from Adolin. Though I was surprised that Dalinar referred to him as "bridgeman" to Amaram. @IntentAwesome Did Jasnah call him bridgeman? I don't recall that. She must have picked up the bad habit from her cousins. I kind of like it.

@Pattern It’s an interesting point you make, but I don’t foresee Kaladin stalling at the third ideal. From the tidbits we received it this book, it seem the fourth and fifth ideals are more personal than the first three. They certainly seem more difficult. In Kaladin’s case, I think they will require an inner growth rather than an external promise like we saw with the two protection ideals. I think it will require a transformation in behavior and thought process in a way that is very personal to him. As I mentioned previously, I think his big hindrance is related to not letting go of people he’s lost. Accepting the failure of losing people might not be a big deal to most people, but it is a huge deal to him. He collects guilt like Shallan collects personalities. These deaths have built up inside him until he completely froze in battle at a crucial moment when he saw his friends killing each other. As a Windrunner, he can't live up to his ideals to protect if he freezes or breaks down in battle when people die. He'll have to get past this issue to move forward as a Windrunner, including fulfilling the first three ideals he has already sworn. There was a quote from a TV show I watched recently, in which a character said “If you let yourself be affected by every death, you can never save a life.” I think this is the big realization he needs to make. He cannot fully protect or lead if he is weighed down by heavy guilt and grief. He seems to have already figured out the words, now he just needs to make the inner change to align himself with the oath. He can only do his best to protect and let the rest go. I don't think this is opposition to what Lirin taught him a surgeon, I think it is in total alignment with it. Regarding this line from your post: I don’t believe there is a “you” outside of Kaladin (or any Radiant) to find another ideal for him. The oaths are self-perceived and he’s the one who needs to find it and live up to it. I don’t think Syl can make up his oaths and Honor is dead. So Kaladin needs to find his own ideals and transform himself to embody them. If he doesn’t do this his character will become stagnant and that’s no fun to read (plus I really want to see that shardplate).

I think this is my issue… everything was packed in so tight that we didn’t get a clear picture of her mental state. It was bad/bad/bad/worse/worse/terrible/I choose you lets get married. Then we got the brief couple of scenes in the last chapter with the lovey dialog and Shallan having a three way conversation with herself. We can dissect every line of the text but we won’t truly know what’s going on with her until the next book and…. argh, that’s tough to take. I have a similar issue with Kaladin’s arc in this book, which I started a separate thread about (I felt like he didn't have much progression). These issues are probably my own, but I like resolution and closure. I have terrible patience with loose ends. Whatever his fourth ideal is, I don't think he'd let a relationship interfere with it. It will need be universal without discernment, and I don’t believe he’ll say it until he knows he can fully embody it 100%. If it is related to letting go of people he's lost, it will also apply to his partner if he were ever to lose her. I don’t think he'll ever put his bond with Syl in jeopardy again. As for this hypothetical radiant partner, they don’t need to be a Windrunner. He can lash people with him like he did on the trip to Kholinar. The Windrunner in Dalinar vision also lashed his partner, though she had to dismiss her shardplate (that was a funny scene with Dalinar trying to figure out how shardplate works). I agree with this. I feel like he was tool in Shallan's plot arc to highlight her identity issues, It would have been nice for him to have a little development or growth out of it, even if it didn't work out between them in the end. I am thankful it didn't wreck his and Adolin's relationship, because they are my favorite pair in this triangle.

I'm also trying to understand the Physical/Cognitive connection. I can understand it as a purely mental dimension that can only be perceived through "hidden senses," but the physical body traveling into the CR is what messes me up. In this book we see our characters travel there physically via the oathgate. Both their mind and body are in the CR. When they move through the CR, their movements roughly correspond to physical locations. So they entered the CR in Kholinar and travel approximately the same route they would across physical land and exit in Thaylen City. All the same laws of physics, time, space, and magic seemed to apply in both realms. When Shallan soulcast the goblet in WOK, she did not enter Shadesmar physically. Her body was in the PR while her mind was in the CR. This implies that the CR exists on a mental dimension, perhaps dream-like, with the physical and cognitive realms overlapping. A dream that has physical consequences on the body. Even without being there physically, she fell into the sea of beads and couldn't breath until Jasnah pulled her out. I assume that if Shallan had "drowned" in the beads, her body would have died in the physical. Was her body in both places at once? Did she appear and disappear on the other side? Thirdly, Pattern and Syl are physical big versions of themselves in Shadesmar when they travel there via oathgate. When they are in the PR in their small spren form, are their physical bodies still in the CR? Didn't Shallan see big Pattern in the CR when she tried to soul cast the stick at the beginning of WOR? It seems that the lesser spren can exist in both at the same time. Shallan comments that the CR spren are large versions of the PR spren, and that only the "tip" of the spren shows through the PR when they are attracted to an emotion or natural force. Does it work like this for Pattern and Syl, or do they exist fully in the PR when they are with their radiant? How about Maya... does she disappear from the CR when Adolin summons his blade or is she in both at once? It seems like the Cognitive Realm has both physical and mental aspects, so you can travel there through either method. Soulcasting = mental connection, Elsecalling/Oathgates/Perpendicularities = mental and physical connection. My best guess is that it's a dimension adjacent to, or perhaps including, the physical realm that spans a broader range of sensory frequencies. One must widen their perception (via the hidden senses) to perceive it, and that can be done from within (being there physically) or from without (not being there physically). And... I have no idea if any of this makes sense and I'm probably thinking way too linearly.

It's hard to pick one favorite moment in the book, but my favorite flashback moment was Jasnah reading the entire Way of Kings to Dalinar after Gavilar's funeral. That was the turning point for him and it brought all the tears.

@kari-no-sugata Thank you for writing out your thoughts on Shallan’s character arc in such detail. I have been a fan of hers through most of the first two books but I struggled with her character in Oathbringer from part 2 through the end. I know you have previously written some well-thought out discourses on her character and I specifically looked forward to reading your thoughts on her progress in this book. Though your post is quite positive on her progress, I am still not feeling good about her mental state at the end of the book. I think the big key with Shallan is that her personalities are her, they are not separate entities. When Veil or Radiant thinks or feels something, where does that thought or feeling come from? In the scene before the wedding the illusions are external and she is having a three-way conversation with them. Who does she think is talking when they speak? She separates herself from their thoughts and actions, but it is all coming from some compartmentalized part of her own mind. These are her thoughts and actions. Her compartments seem to be separated even more distinctly at the end of the book than they were at the beginning. Not to mention that she is still having blackouts in the later parts of the book. I think she should be moving toward integration, not separation. I also do not feel certain that the “Shallan” that Adolin sensed in the hand holding scene is true Shallan. I think the true Shallan is a combination of all of her personalities. I believe this is what Wit was trying to tell her in Chapter 82. She is not a single personality with multiple fake personas. The true Shallan is an amalgam of all of her personas combined. They each represent a facet of a larger gem that she has not yet discovered. I think the full Shallan was probably shattered in childhood, with different pieces locked away into different areas of her mind. Most have remained hidden since, though some have manifested as her different illusions since she began lightweaving. I think her work now is to uncover those pieces and put them back together, but she has barely even begun that journey. The Shallan Adolin has married is one of those facets, not the full person. I don't think we've seen the real Shallan yet. I agree wholeheartedly with @firegazer, the idea of Shallan having a child at this point is scary, so I hope we don’t go there. We already have little Gavinor in the cute toddler role, as well as baby Oroden. They can grow up to participate in the second half of the series rather than having our main characters dealing with pregnancy and parenthood in the middle of a desolation. Also, you mention that Kaladin is not yet ready for a relationship because he is busy and focused on his work. I don’t agree with this. He works well with others and is highly caring and empathetic. I think he would do well with a partner who can work alongside him and who has his back. Perhaps a more extroverted or battle-oriented radiant who can go out with him in the field, like the male/female radiant duo in Dalinar’s vision. I don’t expect him to be sitting around Urithiru remaining stagnant. He’ll want to be out helping people. I can see a romantic relationship succeeding in this scenario, more so than a stay at home wife who is doing clerical work and bookkeeping and feeling left behind. Your text also states that Shallan and Adolin’s friendship could help Kaladin with his problems. I agree that mutually supportive friendships are healthy for everyone. What you didn’t mention is that he could also help them, especially Shallan. Kaladin is very grounded and focused on solving external problems, like helping others. He feels strong emotions for people and doesn't hide from them. He’s been forced to learn how to face his feelings. Sometimes it overwhelms him, but it hasn’t killed him yet and he always bounces back. I think this is a trait Shallan will need to learn at some point in her healing process. I hope that somewhere down the road she can see that Kaladin is a valuable resource for learning the skills she has been pushing away for so long, but as of the end of Oathbringer she hasn’t realized this. This can come through a deep and trusting friendship that doesn't need to be romantic. Finally regarding your comment about Helaran’s shards, they belong to Rock now. He killed Amaram, he gets the shards. He gave Oathbringer to Dalinar. He might decide to give the blade to Shallan, or he might give them to his people, who have been trying to win shards for centuries. He said in WOK that whoever brings shards back to the Horneater Peaks becomes king. I’m not sure if Rock wants to be a king, but he will probably want to help his people if it is that important to them. And there I’ve gone and written a Wall of Text again.

You know what else is capitalized? The Weeping. Could an unmade be associated with the Weeping? I know Kaladin has seasonal affective disorder which causes him to to be depressed during the Weeping, but could his illness be triggered or caused by him sensing something of an unmade? I've had a couple of additional thoughts on the orb and painting. I think it's confirmed in the text that the orb is from a different world. Note this conversation: “The lighthouse keeper wanted the Stormlight,” Kaladin said. “He kept it in some kind of globe.” Captain Ico grunted. “Foreign technology,” he said. “Dangerous. Draws the wrong spren.” He shook his head. “At Celebrant, the moneychangers have perfect gemstones that can hold the light indefinitely. Similar.” Someone also mentioned its similarity to the Elantrian orb in Secret History. It's been a while since I read that, but my guess is that the orb is from Sel. Also the lighthouse keeper seems to be from Sel. I'm not sure how this related to Fortune, or if it is using some Selish magic along with stormlight. Regarding the painting, I think it could be Lightsong's red painting. He notices that he can see a scene within it, even though it appears to be all red random brush strokes.

@FollowYourMuse I love the idea that the next book will be about moving beyond the traditions of the past to do something new and different. One of my favorite things in Oathbringer was Dalinar learning to read and write at the end. It was almost an afterthought, but the implications are huge. I also love that eye color traditions are being turned on their head. With the oathgates open, many different cultures will be mixing and some countries have no concept of eye color pertaining to class. Combine that with the mixing of darkeyed radiants who are now lighteyed and freed parshmen taking control of cities formerly ruled by lighteyes, I don't think the old rules dahn and nahn will be around for much longer. You never know, women might even be able to uncover their safe hand soon!

I think Kaladin’s family deserve a ton of credit for who he is today. Lirin is a healer and a pacifist, and he instilled the ideal of “heal rather than harm” in Kaladin from a young age. Kal began training as a surgeon at eight years old and he’s been responsible for people’s lives for more than half his life. He's tried to save people and failed, and had them die in his hands. This helped develop a strong compassion and empathy, and a sense of respect and responsibility for the lives of others. Hesina thinks outside the box. Rather than being beaten down by negative circumstances, she looks on the bright side and tries to make the best of bad situations. She encourages Kaladin to think for himself and make his own choices rather than doing what’s expected. She even encourages him to learn to write and become a scholar or stormwarden, if that’s what interests him. One of my favorite quotes form her on WOK is when she, Kaladin, and Tien are lying on the roof in the rain. Lirin comes along and asks what they are doing and she says “feasting on irregularity, dear.” I think her influence has inspired Kaladin to look for alternative ways out of difficult situations, rather than giving up and resigning himself to a miserable fate. There is also Tien, who was a little bundle of joyful light. He could cut through Kaladin’s gloom and brought out his protective instinct. When they went into the army, Kaladin took responsibility for Tien’s life, and when he died, he took responsibility for his death. To fill the hole of Tien's loss, Kaladin began to look for others who needed protection. As is his nature, he took responsibility for every death. Combine the influence of these people with Kaladin’s own inner strength and strong will to persevere (traits which I personally believe can be inborn into a person), and you get what he is today, a Child of Honor. Moash probably did not have the benefit of this type of upbringing. He lost his parents at some point, and his grandparents were much older than him. We don’t know the details of his upbringing, but he probably did not have the strong guidance and close family interactions that Kaladin had. His grandparents seem like nice enough people, but grandparents are often more likely to let a child roam free without much supervision or structure. I can imagine Moash growing up on the streets of Kholinar getting into trouble and being a bit of a punk (total speculation in my part, but it makes sense). He left to search for shards and glory, so his focus was making his own life better rather than making others’ lives better. Now, when put into the same situation, Kaladin's natural instinct is to help and protect others and take responsibility for everything that happens, while Moash’s natural instinct is to help and protect himself and blame others for everything that happens. It’s possible to change and go against your natural tendencies in an extreme circumstance (like Kaladin nearly supporting the King’s assassination or Dalinar no longer being the Blackthorn), but in most cases people will take the path of least resistance and follow the patterns they’ve established earlier in life. That’s what Moash did in this book and now he’s an agent of Odium. (And wow that’t much longer than I intended!)

@SLNC That makes sense. And note that Kaladin is captain of the cobalt guard, so wears the cobalt uniform, which is very close to sapphire.

@SLNC As a web developer and color junkie, I've paid close attention to Kholin blue and my head canon is the Cobalt Guard uniforms are cobalt (#0047AB), the text says that non-cobalt guard uniforms are a darker shade of blue, most likely closer to navy (#000080), and sapphire is a tad lighter than cobalt (#0F52BA). So... I'm not sure what this tells us.

@IndigoAjah Thank you! This is something I wasn't seeing. The progress of Bridge Four, Adolin taking care Kaladin after Kholinar, Syl, Dalinar, Rock saving his butt at the end... all of these things were possible because of his relationship with these people. They care about him. Thinking about Rock specifically, he has always been adamant about not fighting. Despite that, he was willing to put his personal beliefs aside to save Kaladin, no matter the cost to himself. That is true friendship and loyalty which is more important than any amount of fighting skills. Thank you. @eveorjoy I enjoyed your post. I agree that narratively the fourth oath is best moved to the next book, and the difficulty will make it all the sweeter when it comes, but man was it tough to read in the moment. Perhaps it's the way the scene is written, but you can feel how desperately he wants to help Dalinar, and how painful the memories are of all the people he's lost, and Adolin is bleeding to death beside him. A success in that moment would feel so satisfying. Logically I know it will feel even better later, but it was quite a let down the first read through, like a big build up that fizzled out. It's interesting, I just began a reread and got to Chapter 7, "Watcher on the Rim." I haven't read this since the preview chapters were released. All of Kaladin's best qualities are on full display in this chapter, and it really shows how far he has come since the pre-third oath days of WOR (which was only a couple weeks earlier). He realizes he can't hate Roshone and instead tries to encourage him to do better, he takes control of the whole house and inspires everyone to act, he talks with Lirin about who he is now and why he is a fighter rather than a surgeon, he holds his baby brother and cries and vows to keep him safe, he reveals himself as Knight Radiant and gives a pep talk to the townsfolk. He is so strong here. I feel that he is still in a similar place at the end of the book, when he is standing watch over Thaylen City, so he hasn't regressed in spite of all his failures between these two events (unlike Shallan, who I think slid backward in this book). We didn't get much inner dialog from him after the battle, but hopefully he has learned from all the failures and an inner growth is happening that we'll see in the next book.

You hit the nail on the head with this. I am looking for a tidy beginning/middle/end character arc, which isn’t happening here. I recently watched all of Brandon’s BYU lectures on fantasy writing, and he talks about making promises to the reader. If you make a promise in the beginning, it is important to resolve it otherwise the reader will feel disappointed. I know we are only three books in to a ten book series and Kaladin’s arc will continue in the next book, but Brandon has been good about making each book cover a specific story that mostly resolves in the end, without any major cliffhangers. I think I overly expected that here. He finished the Wheel of Time, so he knows the danger of leaving a lot of dangling bits between books. I should probably be glad Kaladin is in it at all, and doesn’t go missing for an entire book like Mat or Perrin. I agree that there was a lot of setup for the next book. I expect the Fourth Ideal to be a huge deal for him, considering it reduced him to tears. He'll probably get a huge moment of awesome around that. I think the timing would have been wrong at the point it came in this book, having it happen at the same time as Dalinar’s epiphany. I'm sure the wait for it will make it even more special, but holy cow it's hard to wait 3+ years. I agree that Kaladin needs to learn the lessons you state in order to become a true leader and not be driven mad with grief over every loss. However, that doesn’t lessen the positive attributes he already has, which have carried him through the darkest of times in previous books. Overall he was pretty positive in this book, so I would expect those good qualities to shine through even more as a natural part of his personality. He is a gifted fighter, and the few fight scenes we got were anticlimactic. I think he managed to kill two of the Flying Fused through the whole book. He also protected several townsfolk in Revolar with the wind shield, but he lost many more. During all the time he was in Kholinar, he never considered going back to check on the people being held hostage, or how the people in Hearthstone were doing, which seems out of character for him. I do like that others will there to help him. That alone is a mark of his talent as a person that inspires others to be their most awesome self. Still, I can't get past the Amaram thing. I really wanted him to win that fight.

As much as I loved Oathbringer, there is one aspect that left me feeling unfulfilled, and that is Kaladin’s character progression, or lack thereof. He's my favorite character so I am attentive and sensitive to his specific storyline. By the end of the book I felt that he had no growth, no successes, several failures, and little impact on the story overall. I thought he had a few nice moments with his family, Bridge Four, and Syl, and made some progress with his negative thought patterns and mental state, but these things seemed to have very little effect on his actions within the story. Note the results of his specific plot threads: Hearthstone (Fail/No Impact/Unresolved) Kaladin’s goal here was to warn and prepare the town for the everstorm. He arrived too late for that. Once he reached the citylord manor, the town residents had already organized themselves, injuries were treated, and they were as safe as could be expected in the circumstance. He left to search for the parshmen with the promise to return at a later time. By the end of the book Alethkar had been taken over by voidbringers and the Alethi are captured or taking refuge in other countries. Kaladin never returned to check on his family and we don’t know their current status. Parshmen (Fail/Unresolved) Kaladin spent most of Part 1 traveling with the parshmen. He befriended them and taught them basic survival skills. This sets up an interesting dilemma for him. He feels empathy with these people and begins to question the “us and them” mentality, who the real enemies are, and the distinction between untransformed parshmen/former slaves vs. fused/voidforms/agents of Odium. He abruptly flies away from his friendly parshmen at the end of Part 1 and we never fully revisit this issue. He had one argument with Jasnah in Part 2, but otherwise there is no resolution or further discussion about how to handle the parshmen or the human prisoners left in pens in Alethkar. Additionally, Kaladin’s band of friendly parshmen became Moash’s team and participated in the king’s assassination and overtaking the palace. Kholinar (Fail) The objective here was to rescue the queen and prince and open the oathgate so the Alethi troops could retake Kholinar. Turns out that Aesudan is hosting an unmade, Gavinor is taken by the enemy, Elhokar is dead, the palace and Kholinar are lost, Kaladin goes catatonic while watching his men kill each other, the oathgate is inhabited by another unmade, and our four surviving heroes end up trapped in Shadesmar. Kaladin’s squires were left behind, and they were the ones to rescue Gavinor and bring him to safety, a task Elhokar has specifically assigned to Kaladin. Protect Dalinar (Fail/Low Impact) Kaladin’s time in Shadesmar primarily revolves around the vision of Dalinar with nine shadows and his strong sense of urgency to get to Thaylen City to protect Dalinar. They arrive at the Thaylen City oathgate to find it guarded by fused. Kaladin tries to distract them, but ultimately runs out of stormlight and falls into the sea of beads, where he is rescued by Syl. They are finally saved by Dalinar’s perpendicularity, which happens after his confrontation with Odium. Kaladin played no part in that fight, so his vision had no real purpose or payoff. He later distracts the fused as Dalinar confronts Nergaoul, but Kaladin had very little impact on that fight. Probably any member of Bridge Four could have filled this role for Dalinar. Fourth Ideal (Fail) Several scenes in the book seem to foreshadow Kaladin’s speaking the fourth ideal. This includes the wind-shield scene in Part 1 and the wind spren forming around him in Shadesmar. In part 5, he finally gets to the point where he knows the words and tries to speak them, but he cannot bring himself to do it. He breaks down in tears and is comforted by Syl, resulting in the biggest let-down moment of the entire book (for me). Compare this to Teft, who has apparently said three ideals in the same book and is now at the same level as Kaladin. Amaram (Fail) Amaram has been Kaladin's arch nemesis since Book 1 Chapter 1. A final confrontation between the two of them has been overshadowing Kaladin’s story for three books, and as a reader I have been anxiously awaiting it. We finally get to it in Part 5. Not only is he confronting Amaram, he is also confronting an unmade, Yelig-nar (Blightwind). The symmetry of having Shallan confront Re-Shephir, Dalinar confront Nergaoul, and Kaladin confront Yelig-nar in the same book seems so perfect. Each of these unmade have a resonance with their respective orders and personalities. Well, Kaladin fails again here. He runs out of stormlight and is nearly killed by Amaram/Yelig-nar, only to be rescued in the last minute by Rock, who makes the killing blow. Shallan (Fail/No impact) The weird love triangle. The entire purpose of this sub-plot seems to have been to highlight Shallan’s multiple personas. One of them likes Adolin, one of them likes Kaladin, they other one is just confused. In the end, Shallan determines that Veil, the persona who likes Kaladin, has bad taste in men. Shallan does not realize that these personalities are all part of her and that these are her own thoughts and feelings. She has no growth from this situation and she seems to be worse off at the end of the book than when she started. Kaladin also has no growth from it. The Helaran discussion did not come up at all. This whole arc seems to have had very little impact on the story or characters. Mental Issues (Progress/No Impact/Unresolved) This is one area that Kaladin seems to have made some progress. Unfortunately, none of this progress seemed to have any positive effect on the events of the story. He stepped up as a radiant and stopped hiding. His attitude towards lighteyes was greatly improved, to the point that he became friends with a group of lighteyed soldiers whose deaths he later mourned. He did not flinch when referred to as “Brightlord.” When he felt himself slipping into a dark place after the Kholinar catastrophe, he reflected on his depression, determined that it was illogical, and talked to Shallan about how she stays positive. These are big steps for him and I would have loved to see him be extra-awesome as a result of these positive changes. Instead, his actions and failures all seem to be ruled by his primary unresolved issue, which is guilt and grief over the people he failed to protect. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I find it odd that one of the main protagonists of the series would spend an entire 1200+ page book with very little growth, impact or resolution, so perhaps I am missing something important. Did others feel this way, or do you think he made progress as a character? Was he put on hold to be continued at a later date due to the vast amount of material in this book? Is the lack of forward momentum part of his development? Why would he go stagnant at a time where he is embracing his radiant-ness? Are all of these failures tied to his Fourth Ideal in some way? I want to find the progression for his character in this book, and I’m not sure what it is.

I was under the impression that Timbre is Captain Ico's daughter. His father also was a nahel bond spren and was killed in the recreance. We saw the dad locked in a cabin with Maya on the ship. I am guessing the Reachers (lightspren) are Willshaper spren.

@PhineasGage There is a WOB on the subject of Kaladin's parentage. Lirin and Hesina are his bio-parents. (Link) That said, I think there is something interesting in Hesina's lineage. My guess is that she has some lighteyed family members. I'll be curious to learn more about her at some point.

Several times throughout the series Kaladin rattles off a list in his head of all the people he's failed and lost. He does it in this scene. This reminds of Rand's list of women in Wheel of Time. He repeats that list in his head every time someone dies because of him. Rand eventually had to let those people go and stop blaming himself for their deaths. I can't help but feel Kaladin's oath is something similar, and he's not ready yet to leave those people behind, especially with Tien on the list. I also wonder about Teft. Will his fourth ideal be similar, perhaps letting go of the Envisager members who were executed because of him? I assume most Windrunners need to face something like this, otherwise they will eventually become frozen by guilt and grief. @brandondash I've also considered Lirin's belief that "You cannot kill to protect" to be the inspiration for the next oath. Though I wonder how that applies to voidbringers. If a flying fused is wiping out a village of innocent people and Kaladin is the only person who can fight them, is it his duty to remove the threat? Does he try to chase it off without killing it (or killing the body it's inhabiting), or should he try to crack the gemheart to essentially kill it until it finds another host? At this point, I think he would have to fight to kill, otherwise the thing will keep coming back as soon as he leaves. I would be curious to see what Lirin things about killing the voidbringers.