robardin

I dunno. I assume the writing materials are for his "scribe" who is Syl, who as a spren can barely manipulate a pen enough to write a single letter at a time... Can he really learn to read/write, AND to play that Trailman's Flute well enough for the Wind to play back what he plays, all in the next ten - no, eight days?

First of all, he's the Prime Aqasix now (no - he has always been Prime), called Yanagawn the First, you disrespectful chull! Second, once you venture into "he could become..." a scholar and philosopher with a completely different outlook or voice than we've seen heretofore, storms, why not Gaz? Or even Moash? Everyone's an option now!

Creating a storyline with no foreshadowing that her entire family are imaginary, using suppressed powers, is kind of ... out there, man! That's more than halfway to wondering if the big reveal at the end of SA10 will be "Shallan was just daydreaming this whole thing up, there's no such thing as spren!" LOL In any case we have multiple WoBs assuaging such fears/concerns/ideas some fans have had like this over the years. Shallan's father and mother that we see in her flashback POVs are indeed her actual father and mother, and given how her father treats her brothers (not to mention Wit/Hoid knows about them and talks about them), we can assume they are her actual brothers.

I agree - the "Oathpact" of the Heralds with Honorblades (not Honor-and-Cultivation Blades) were a thing of Honor alone, yet the "sealing" of Odium had both Honor and Cultivation's powers involved. This is something we have yet to have fully explained - and may not even after SA5, it could be a full ten-book arc type of reveal. But exactly how was the Oathpact ever supposed to resolve? Aside from the fact that it seems inevitably to drive all the immortal principals on both sides - Fused and Heralds alike - into madness in the end? I mean, from the Fused POV, they are signing up to become immortal to span the generations of singers they'd have to lead to take back Roshar from the humans, which they knew would take a long time. That implies they foresaw a way that could even possibly end (I guess, Kill All Humans?) So what was the opposite end game, for the Heralds and humanity (originally without Radiants)? Kill all the singers? That never really seemed to be the goal, or they wouldn't have enslaved the mindless "parsh" or done some massive genocidal campaign in between Desolations while the singers were without Invested leadership. (And when Jasnah brings this up as one of the logical end goals, it's basically dismissed as an impossibly monstrous atrocity.) Before Ahrietiam, the Desolations got shorter and shorter as the Heralds broke more and more quickly - or rather, one of the non-Taln Heralds would break more and more quickly. Did that make Team Odium feel like victory was close at hand? Was that even a "victory condition", if we break the Heralds enough that they (all?) forswear the Oathpact, ... ...then what? Would Rayse/Odium be freed, as he so fervently wished? But in that case, why would he EVER agree to the Contest of Champions? It was implied that Odium also wished for an end to the endless repeating cycle. (Of course, at the time Odium agreed to the Contest at Thaylen Fields, he was pretty confident of Dalinar falling to become his champion, so, there's that.)

Well now, it’s not like “for every person/personality there’s one and only one spren match for a Nahel bond”. I agree that I thought Dabbid could have been a great Edgedancer, and let’s remember the Sibling had been willing to bond Dabbid as well, so his attracting an honorspren certainly has something to do with his being in Bridge Four and being trained by/close with Kaladin, the paragon Windrunner. And yet, it’s not like Dabbid is being forced into a Windrunner peg hole. His moving to stand in front of the boy Adin, spear grasped in shaking hands as they stared down a force of stormform singers, taking a battle stance he had seen and possibly trained in but had never actually stood to battle… That was pure Windrunner. And quite probably, pure Stoneward (we haven’t seen a POV from one yet). And in The Sunlit Man we see someone who has been in two different Radiant orders in his life, as well (through as yet unexplained circumstances). The point is, almost anybody worthy of a spren bond would “match up” with a variety of spren. Probably not all ten, but at least 3 or 4, I would say. And then after that, it’s a matter of circumstance, and yes, spren will go where spren of their kind have already been/gone - it’s why the honorspren all went for the people in various “bridge crews”, even if many of them (lighteyes, or Lyn) never actually served as bridge runners. Oooh, that’s both a really good catch and a really good theory. Kudos on both! But I think Syl would probably have noticed at a glance that Lusintia had changed. It had been apparent to someone like Jasnah working off of a description/sketch of a lightspren, “the proper spren of the Truthwatchers” and when seeing Renarin’s spren for the first time, that Glys “was not normal”, with a “bright red” look to him. I think such an “enlightenment” would be even more apparent to a fellow honorspren who had known Lusintia already.

In the interest of fairness, after doing some searching in the WoB Arcanum, I will admit that Brandon himself has been cagey about dismissing the idea that Nohadon may still be around somehow, or that he was somehow special. But you know, not all RAFOs are indicative of "you're on to something", and not every indication that "Nohadon had something special about/going on for him" means "he's still alive, even as a CG like Kelsier is, somewhere in the Cosmere"...

it may not be worse for Roshar, simply just as good for Odium. Or should I say, just as good for Taravangian. He is the one who saw this (not Rayse), and has a different goal to "save them all" in the "Cosmere ruled by broken gods" versus Rayse's "I want to be the one and only Shard left standing".

That's a good catch (and I don't think you need to spoiler a quote from the SF in Oathbringer, especially in this sub-forum about Cosmere-wide discussion of SA5 early chapters)! Even there though, he refers to "Honor' in the singular a few times - as if the Oathpact were something "powered" by both Honor and Cultivation, but the mechanics or framework something attributed solely to Honor ("THE HERALDS WENT TO HONOR, AND HE GAVE THEM THIS RIGHT, THIS OATH... HONOR WAS WRONG"). It definitely came across to me that Cultivation was in a kind of supporting role in that context.

I also don't think Dalinar will "lose" the Contest of Champions. However, Taravangian as Odium will still be "satisfied with the outcome", or thinks he will be.

Dude, Nohadon is dead. Long dead. You don't have to "see the body" of someone who lived in the Silver Age of Roshar to assume that. In any case, Odium himself referred to Nohadon's book, "The Way of Kings", as "the words of a man long dead, long failed" as he zapped it when Dalinar clung to a copy like a talisman while trying not to give Odium his pain. Don't know why you think the writer of KoWaT excepts in the few chapter headings we've had suggest "seems to have been around pre-Recreance with functional Urithiru" when Urithiru was made fully functional at the end of RoW and Navani bonding the Sibling; and the "fewer spren bonds around" is implied to be a result of whatever happens in the "cleansing of Shinovar", not because of Nale's actions of the past thousand years or so before the Everstorm arrived.

Yeah, maybe you end up switching mental identity places with your gold shadow and THAT version takes over being "real" when the gold burns out, d'oh! Of course that version can burn gold too and the two "shadows" would switch back if he ever did the same thing - stack duralumin + gold - but why would he? Especially if that version were cognizant of how they came to be "stable" or "real". I mean I doubt that's what would "actually" happen, but it'd be pretty interesting, heh. And would certainly make a Nicroburst touching someone burning A-gold have an interesting side effect!

Even if whatever has been "binding" Odium to Roshar is something Honor did, Cultivation was/is definitely "in cahoots" with Honor against Cultivation, as we can see with the Nightwatcher and even more so, the Sibling / Urithiru being her contribution of 1.5/3.0 Splintered Spren being used for Bondsmith Radiants. In fact you could say that the very existence of the ten order of Radiants, where the appropriate ten kinds of sentient spren were "inspired by the ten Honorblades" to enter into Nahel bonds with humans (and thus, began after the Oathpact was made/cycle of Desolations kicked off), is a massive workaround of the Oathpact. Odium / Honor: As part of the deal, Honor gets Ten immortal Heralds, recycling between Braize and Roshar, wielding Ten Honorblades granting two Surges each, leading the humans worshipping Honor as the Almighty; vs. some fixed number (500? We don't get that number, right?) of Fused for Odium to recycle between Braize and Roshar leading Team Singers following him. LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!! Cultivation: ... hmmm Imma convince, some might say "cultivate", some sentient spren into bonding humans, and get lots more Surgebinders on that side! Even when all the immortals are on Braize! Odium: WHAT? THAT'S CHEATING, WOMAN!!! Cultivation: That's "dragon" and you know it. Come say that to my face! Odium: I PLAN TO, AS SOON AS I AM DONE WITH... WITH... AAAARRGH

That's how I read it. Honorblades have the same effect as any other Shardblade in the PR, cutting through non-living materal like clothing and then passing through living flesh that go gray/dead (and in a fatal hit the eyes burn out and all that). We saw that many times with Szeth and Moash/Vyre wielding Jezrien's Blade - in particular, when Adolin sees Szeth "sever" Kaladin's arm in the warcamp palance hallway before they fell through the hole cut out in the wall, making it extra suspicious when Kaladin later appears with his arm fully functional but his sleeve neatly cut off where he remembered seeing the Blade pass through. "Normal" spren-made-solid Shardblades can't form in Shadesmar, but Honorblades probably could be physically brought there and used as normal, since the humans and Fused in Shadesmar are physically there. I also don't quite get why people still promote Shallan = Chanarach theories. Brandon has confirmed multiple times, going back many years, that Shallan Davar is indeed the full and natural child of Lin Davar and his wife, and the sister of her three brothers. That kind of rules out her being a Herald of the Almighty who lived from the time of Dawnsingers and the arrival of humans to Roshar. Of course, that does still leave open the possibility that Shallan's MOTHER was Chanarach, ... but "Shallan remembers she's Chana!" was NOT what was going on there in Ch 9.

It would be pretty funny to imagine Kelsier's face/reaction after having two back to back taunt-o-grams from Roshar relayed to him from Mraize, first from Hoid threatening to "go back over there and slap him around again", and second from Taravangian who he'd dismissed gloating about Guess Who's A Shard Now And Has Plans For You!

Fair, but that's multiple bonds to the same kind of spren - more akin to having living Shardplate built from multiple platespren, I would say, than forming multiple Nahel bonds, or gemheart bonds for a listener.

It's supposed to be difficult and rare to happen, and Kalak even says such an "imbrication" of the Nahel bond used to be prohibited (I guess that means either Honor or Ishar would have prevented or severed it?). Similar to reviving a deadeye spren without the original bonded Radiant involved, it's "never happened" and "the circumstances would be pretty rare/unique" - just because two of our main character heroes in SA have done both of these things doesn't change that, it's more that "the story is about them BECAUSE they have an exceptional/unique situations about them", that's the nature of storytelling. The two of them meeting up and marrying each other, well, I guess that's author's prerogative

Ryshadium already have a spren bond, it's what makes them larger and smarter and magic vs. ordinary horses. Like Chasmfiends.

I wonder if/when Mraize/the Ghostbloods will discover that Taravangian has Ascended to be the new Vessel of Odium - the Diagram and the Ghostbloods were aware of each other, though Mraize dismissed Taravangian as an "old fool" and Adrotagia thought Mraize was the leader of the GBs, IIRC. Mraize [to a Fused]: "Tell your master, Odium, that I have news of what Dalinar is attempting in recruiting more honorspren to his side. He would do well in destroying a number of their most senior Windrunners, along with the Kholin Highprince and the leading Lightweaver, while they are unable to summon Shardblades in Shadesmar - I can tell you where they will be traveling alone. I ask only that you be certain to destroy the Lightweaver, Shallan Davar, above all else." Fused: "Odium bids you thanks. And he also says, tell your master Thaidakar, and I quote, 'Ascending is pretty awesome, maybe you'll get to do it again someday, jelly much? LOLOLOL.'" Mraize [confused]: "What does 'LOLOLOL' mean? Or this talk of jelly?" Fused: "I do not question the words of the gods, and neither should you."

I guess it's true that learning Alethi would help the Fused communicate not just with humans, but with former Alethi parshmen singers who wouldn't know the singer language for a while yet. I was more commenting on how quickly they seemed to do it. They've been gone for thousands of years, since Aharietiam, it's not like any human languages they'd learned in the past are of much help with learning Alethi. The Battle of Narak in 1173 brought in the Everstorm, so no Fused were on Roshar before then; and the occupation of Urithiru by Raboniel and Co. happens in 1175. So all in all, they've been around for maybe a bit more than two years, and yet so many Fused know Alethi who aren't scholars have bothered to acquire it? Including The Defeated One, who lived to hunt and kill Radiants? What, just to be able to taunt them? Or an agent/spy in Lasting Integrity.

Other comments: Dabbid has attracted an honorspren, and Kaladin refers to this when asking "Rlain and now Dabbid, ... did any of the other squires pick one up", ... ...but the MORE curious thing than why OG Bridge Four guys like them had never attracted a spren before, is why they never even "squired up" to Kaladin either, to draw in Stormlight the way that Lopen did right after the Battle of Narak. Or all of Bridge Thirteen did to Teft, after the Battle of Thaylen Fields. As for honorspren, we know Rlain was "frozen out" for being a listener by Yunfah's attitude, but Dabbid is more of a curious case. I suppose with all the Windrunner squires around it'd be more natural for an honorspren to "promote" one to having their own Nahel bond, but that just goes back to the original question, why not those two guys? It will be interesting to see what forming a Nahel bond might to to Dabbid. Hey, who's the "ambassador" they're leaving at Lasting Integrity? I don't remember! The Heavenly Ones ambush in the middle of seemingly nowhere in Shadesmar is clearly unusual, as is their pattern of "go for the kill" instead of their more usual skirmishing and reporting back. Should we assume this is something to do with the New Odium being a bit more forethoughtful? Shallan's "Soulcast Illusion" of Radiant with a Shardblade was able to kill "Abidi the Monarch" physically (there's a spray of blood), rather than Shardblade fashion (burning his eyes out). Still good, though. And, I think Abidi thinks a bit too highly of his own sanity. Calling himself "the Monarch" and wanting to "bathe in the blood of Lightweavers?" Okay, buddy. How do all these Fused know Alethi, anyway?

We are not sure what it requires to "become" an Elantrian. If you're referring to what we see Moonlight do with a soulstamp in TLM, well that's different from a Lightweaving. Identity "fronting" and actually forming a Connection based on it, are not the same. It's still a new frontier for Lightweaving as far as we've seen, though. Just being able to withdraw Investiture with a fakeout Identity key is massively useful.

I interpreted the comment to mean "such things" (as Nahel bonds - thus having "familiarity with a [sentient] spren") "are less common now than they once were", not that spren themselves were less common. Which is still curious/interesting, of course. And the Edgedancer comment is because Kaladin "listened" to the Wind, echoing the Third Ideal of the Edgedancers, I will listen to those who have been ignored. If anything I read that as low-key snarking, like "Hey Edgedancers, guess what, anybody can just listen too, ya know!" LOL. Yeah, that does explain where all the "missing" Shardblades are. They're lost in the CR. "Be. Drehy." I had to re-read that a few times to appreciate what that meant was going on. Drehy had Lashed her upwards in order to fly, and normally only the Windrunner who had created the Lashing could un-Lash it - though another Windrunner or Skybreaker with the same Surge could apply another one to cancel it out. So Shallan effectively Lightweaved a proxy Drehy layer that could fool the Investiture so she could draw it in? Not to the point of actually creating a Lashing, but more like an Identity Key fakeout. And then later, she Lightweaved something (someone) physical - which she already kind of did at Thalyen Fields, where Jasnah observed with interest that she seemed to be giving her illusions some actual mass. And then implied she "had already said" the Words that allowed her to do this. As in, remembered that she'd gotten pretty far in Ideals as a child. (Or... As before.) I mean, at Thaylen Fields, her image of Radiant was enclosed in garnet Shardplate. A Fourth Ideal Radiant. Or even... Fifth? Did pre-Shallan Shallan get all the way to the FIFTH Ideal? And now has a previously banned double-spren Nahel bond?

I think it's the rock he showed Syl after the battle at Thaylen Fields in Oathbringer, when telling her it was clear to him that Shallan had chosen Adolin. It represents remembering Tien's effect on him, which Shallan also has, which maybe is a Lightweaver type thing? Oathbringer Ch. 111: Why would Kaladin pick up a rock off the ground at Thalyen Fields while thinking of Tien? Because it helps to "lighten his burdens" - some aspect of seeing how a simple rock can change colors based on how you look at it, reminds Kaladin that Tien knew that to ease his depression, he has to be made to see the same thing from a different POV. It's an echo of what Tien does/says to him in a flashback in TWoK Ch. 37, "Five and a Half Years Ago" prior to the Battle of Narak: That's also the flashback chapter were we see a young Kaladin ask Hesina about dungspren, too! LOLOL. The curious subtlety would be how the rock got into his rucksack, as Leyten says he didn't pack it, but he had packed the Trailman's Flute that Kaladin had sent as part of his "stuff" to bring. So that means Kaladin DIDN'T specifically give this rock to Leyten, yet there it is, and Kaladin noticed and specifically kept it. Who put the rock there? Hm!

They also say "Merciful Domi". Still, it could be an example of a shared ancestry going even further back. We know the Aonic people arrived to an empty Elantris, and yet the Shaod only takes people who are both Aonic AND born near Elantris (a person of JinDo or MainPon descent, even one born in Aradel, would not be taken by the Shaod). So whoever the Ancient Elantrians were could have been the ancestors of the Aonic peoples, or been cousins to them.

Must have something to do with the Everstorm then? And maybe also as a result of the engemification of BAM that "broke" so many things on Roshar.