cometaryorbit

Yeah that's what got me wondering about the line between "human with power granting spikes" and "Inquisitor". Koloss are even weirder - blue skin that doesn't grow with the body, indeterminate growth, and ability to gain nutrition from random junk don't obviously relate to "human strength". So do 1, 2, or 3 iron spikes grant only strength and at 4 all the koloss changes appear, or would someone with fewer spikes have lesser versions of those changes?

Hmm good point. I wonder where they are though, if kandra know about them but humans don't. (Or could kandra reproduce to produce mistwraiths?)

I believe the "human attribute"/Kandra Blessing spikes are more warp-y than Allomantic or Feruchemical power spikes. I do wonder what the threshold is from "human with power-granting spikes" to "Inquisitor" is? Maybe where you need a linchpin spike to survive? The Set could only go up to 3 spikes each due to Harmony interference so probably never tested that limit.

Mistwraiths were created from humans by TLR and given a Cognitive blockage, which the Blessing spikes fix. They were intentionally built using the Well to be "incomplete" without the spikes. The spikes turn it into a kandra, which is a Hemalurgic construct - in a sense a separate species from mistwraiths, as koloss and Inquisitors are separate from humans. While it's hard to tell since they're shapeshifters - way less obvious than the human->koloss transition - kandra are presumably biologically different from mistwraiths; they live over a thousand years vs. 50 years for mistwraiths. I think that the memory storage itself is in Physical, biological brain matter (though dispersed through the body rather than in a single brain human-style); it's more that when the spikes are removed the kandra turns back into a mistwraith, which isn't sapient, and the memories degrade as part of that transformation. Kandra brain matter probably isn't identical to mistwraith brain matter.

We know too little about Trell to say anything solidly, but I'd guess that Trell has relatively little Invested in Scadrial and less Connection (compared to Ruin, who was one of the co-creators of the planet) and so probably can't control as completely as Ruin. Anyway, Paalm was sufficiently messed up that it probably didn't take more than a nudge. (It might not even have required actual mental influence, just giving her the spike as a tool needed to hide from Harmony and words pointing her in the desired direction.)

It's not really analogous to (Stormlight) Kelsier, by contrast, was dead for at least several years (from the end of book 1 to sometime after the end of book 3). I think the "mistwraith using Kelsier's bones with Kelsier's soul spiked in instead of a Blessing" theory is the best so far, though Marasi's comment that mistwraiths might be extinct post-Catacendre is an issue.

We do see him add OreSeur's Blessing - he just adds two new ones (doesn't swap out like Paalm) by putting them in his body then dissolving some organs and re-forming them pierced by the spikes. And no, there's no noticeable change (even in his POV) during the process. It is commented in Bands of Mourning that using another kandra's spikes when you don't have your own causes all those problems (when they're discussing ReLuur) so I think TenSoon was protected since he had both spikes of his own Blessing the whole time, unlike either Paalm or ReLuur.

Hnm maybe but that's not how I read that. I think it more means that Preservation (at the time Sazed is speaking of) recognizes its incompleteness. This disagreement may not be resolvable without further books or WoBs, but let me spell out where I'm coming from and you can see which points you disagree with. 1. I think several WoBs establish that Preservation's Intent is fundamentally stasis / "things not changing" and Ruin's Intent is essentially entropy (but perhaps in a broader sense than just thermodynamics, social breakdown too might be included). 2. I don't think "power of Preservation" in that HoA epigraph means exactly the same thing as "the Shard itself considered as uninfluenced by any Vessel".. I think it's basically a synonym for the Mists*- the power of Preservation dispersed in the world - and the epigraph refers to what Vin realized right before she sacrificed herself: Leras' plan to sacrifice himself, making his power (the Mists) available to a future wielder (Vin) who could destroy in order to protect (then, ultimately, to Sazed). *(Given that the Well and lerasium, the liquid and solid manifestations of Preservation, were both used up at the time of HoA. But the Well was an "attuning force" as part of this plan, so could also be included.) 3. In the case of Preservation in Era 1, I don't think we can clearly distinguish the goals of the Vessel from the Intent of the Shard the way we can with Harmony in Era 2 or Odium in Stormlight -- this is a Shard whose Vessel is mostly mindless but whose "shadow" still shapes the power, which is still acting according to a plan set up by that Vessel (Snapping people, choosing Vin). I didn't mean Connection in the realmatic sense, just "the way that lerasium's effect is 'of' Preservation". Yeah but Stormlight drives people to motion/action not to make or keep oaths... I don't think these things are all that direct. (Though admittedly one could argue that the Stormfather's Intent is involved with Stormlight.)

Sure, but I still think that's more "recognizes that it's incomplete" vs "actually wants change". I agree lerasium rewrites spiritual DNA but I think its connection to Preservation is through "makes you an Allomancer, Preservation's magic system". Using it to change Spiritual DNA other ways is likely as much of a "hack" as using atium for immortality- exactly opposite to Ruin's Intent. I don't think there's anything very Odium-ish about conducting Investiture either. If it just absorbed without conducting that could fit the Void, but it doesn't.

I would think the immense power of a Shard + the relative freedom of a new Vessel from Intent limitations would mean "basically however the new-Shard mother wanted it to go". It would require some active work for the birth to proceed normally as the "dematerialization" would be a problem either way - either the baby doesn't count as part of the Vessel, is left behind and won't survive (unless very near term); or it does count and is absorbed into the timeless Spiritual where it probably won't develop.

It's said that Rysn "is" the Dawnshard now, so "we" (Odium + his forces?) could have killed a previous Unity Dawnshard (holder). I don't think future sight is a power of Dalinar, really. I don't think this is even exactly future sight-- I don't think Dalinar knows he's going to be a Dawnshard (or Vessel of reunited Honor/Unity or whatever). Just an effect of the timelessness of the Spiritual Realm. Thank you! I was thinking the process of reuniting the Shard from Splinters changed it... especially since it might not be 100% the same Shard, not all the Splinters might get reconnected and the Honor + Cultivation nature of so many spren might incorporate a bit of Cultivation Investiture. Athough Rayse-Odium called himself Passion without actually changing the Shard, I suppose Dalinar-Honor could call himself Unity. Not certainly... we know little about Dawnshards... but my objections are that this seems important enough to have come up in his flashbacks and that Honor talks as if the Dawnshards are unavailable so I would have thought Rysn's was the first to be "made available" in the modern era. Also, would the Sleepless have been so concerned about Rysn maybe bonding a spren if there were already a Dawnshard Unchained Bondsmith out there? I wonder if this isn't Hoid. We know he used to be one but his on screen appearances cover a lot of time... back in White Sand or Elantris he might have still been the Dawnshard.

Unless Adolin goes with her... he's removed himself from the Alethi succession, basically, and depending on what happens in book 5 he might have reason to leave. If you're talking about Wit, I agree we've seen him off Roshar in chronologically later stories, but I doubt he's leaving permanently (won't be in arc 2). I would think that (Mistborn) In the same way we don't see Vivenna and Vasher leave Nalthis, but we do see them on Roshar.

I think there's a WoB that Nahel bond is a more general term for a bond between spren and Physical Realm creature; its the Radiant version specifically that is post Heralds. That nitpick aside, I agree, the main question being imo whether Dawnsingers could gain powers from a lasting bond to one specific sapient spren or whether it was more general/temporary interaction with multiple likely non sapient spren. In addition to the Stoneshaping thing, there's that whole thing with growing plants using Light and rhythm and gemstones - maybe proto fabrial tech? Or is it a form of Progression?

It's also supposed to be an in world book/song/etc. Szeth's book was going to be Stones Unhallowed when it was book 3, which is probably an Urithiru reference, so it might have something to do with that... Kingdom of Wisdom (Urithiru's its own kingdom now)? Kingdom over the Winds Keys of the World (a book about the Oathgates?) OTOH we had tons of Urithiru in books 3 and 4 so the title might be something referencing Shinovar or Ba-ado-Mishram or the contest of champions. Some thoughts.... Keepers of Wisdom (in reference to the Stone Shamans) ...but possibly sounds too much like the Mistborn Keepers. Keys of/to Wisdom (an in world book about the Stone Shaman religion) Knife of the West (an in world book about Szeth's time as an assassin?) Keeper of Woe (something about Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment?) King of the Winds (a book about Jezrien, the Windrunner Herald/Herald of Kings; the connection to book 5 could be the final disposition of his Honorblade)

Oh I think it's likely in the long term, my skepticism is more whether it happens in *this* book. Especially if it really only covers 10 days. (Which I kind of doubt, but there is that "first of the Final Ten Days" reference.) It might happen in arc 2, or Shallan might pop up in Mistborn Era 3 or something.

Do we know that arc 1 will end badly? Obviously there has to be unresolved issues for a second arc, but the other possibility I see is that the immediate conflicts (contest of champions, Ishar/Shinovar things Szeth and Kaladin are doing, maybe Ba-Ado-Mishram issue) are resolved in ways that look more or less satisfactory to the characters but leave hints that something larger is still coming. Kind of (Mistborn) In the first case Dalinar almost certainly dies (its a duel to the death after all) but becomes a Cognitive Shadow, in the second case he probably wins & lives (and possibly Ascends for real this time). Shallan seems the next most likely of the major characters to die, although becoming a Cognitive Shadow seems plausible (I think she's a better candidate for a new Herald or quasi-Herald than Kaladin). Adolin... no clue... I agree Kaladin, Lift, Jasnah, and likely Renarin are probably safe for writing/out of world reasons. Navani possibly also (both because Brandon probably wants her to be around advancing fabrial tech in the gap between arcs and also because we already had a plot about Dalinar's wife's death in OB). I expect Kaladin to be around in the second arc but not at the forefront, as a counselor, advisor, or teacher of some sort. Lift, Jasnah, and Renarin are supposed to be important in the second arc. Stormfather death seems frighteningly plausible, and could fit the Night of Sorrows idea (no more stormlight), but I'm not sure about either the practicality of it (would anti Stormlight dagger be enough?) or whether that would totally change the setting to the point of making it not feel like Roshar anymore for arc 2.

I'm not sure I see Shallan going full on worldhopper yet. Cosmere aware sure, but actually leaving Roshar long term while all this is going on? Though I guess that depends on how resolved things look at the end of book 5... just because *we* know another arc is coming 10 years or so later doesn't mean the characters necessarily will, if things *look* solved/stable.

Not exactly programmed it to seek change, but to follow his plan, in ways that are more or less compatible with Preservation. I mean Snapping is change, so kind of, but it's also part of Preservation's magic system. I think the actual epigraph at issue is more about "the Shard of Preservation is totally incomplete by itself". Which is true; it's probably true of all Shards to some degree but less obvious for something like Ruin. -- As for godmetal effects: I'd argue that the connection to the Shard is via magic system rather than Intent. Burning Lerasium makes you a Mistborn (the ultimate form of Preservation's magic system) and Atium is the ultimate Hemalurgic spike in Ruin's magic system. It's not that direct a link: Atium Compounding made TLR and Marsh ageless, which is totally opposed to Ruin (basically entropy). -- There are several WoB's that Preservation is essentially stasis/lack of change. Anyway, by this logic nearly every Shard can be connected to change- Honor and Devotion (?) make bonds, Dominion conquers (?), Endowment gives gifts, Invention invents, Virtuosity is creativity, Ambition presumably seeks power (?), Valor sounds linked to conflict, those are all changes from the previous state. I think the Change Shards are those which are fundamentally about transformation "for its own sake" as opposed to a side effect of another concept like Honor or Devotion or Dominion or Invention. (Ruin is decay, breaking things down to fundamentals. Cultivation is directed growth.)

Yeah I think the Intent issue is a major problem for the Gavinor theory. Plus it just doesn't sound right for the story imo. Also, "all who live... further breath to draw" doesn't sound relevant to this contest anyway. The survival of humanity on Roshar doesn't rest on this any more. I think this is either a back half thing; not especially literal (maybe a newborn spren of some sort - a new Unmade or Odiumspren?); or maybe something to do with Yelig-nar style "possession". "Choice of honor is life" one to me sounds more like one of the Honor associated characters' decision to spare or save someone's life having really disastrous consequences down the road. (And the actual choice might have already happened - we've seen several possibilities- just not the consequences yet.)

Yeah I found the 3 types of pain-related spren odd too. It seems like they actually have different descriptions ("teeth growing from the walls", "upside-down faces carved from stone", "small orange hands or bits of sinew") so aren't just different names for the same thing. That seems very plausible. Some of the emotional spren do have fairly fine gradations (fearspren vs. anxietyspren vs. shockspren). There are other sets of similar spren too, though some may be different names for the same thing: decayspren/rotspren, flamespren/heatspren, coldspren/snowspren, groundspren/gravityspren/gravitationspren/mandras or "luckspren". (I'm pretty sure gravityspren and gravitationspren are the same, but probably not the same as mandras.)

Yeah it's only evidence if one starts with the assumption that the (genuine) Stormfather can't or wouldn't ever lie. Which seems at-first-glance likely, as a Splinter *and* Sliver of Honor, but imo the Intent of Honor is more bonds and oaths than truth as such, so he probably can lie. Jezrien's death was a no reincarnation death though so may be a different case - it seems that the other Heralds sensed that but (from the Prologue) didn't necessarily know about return-to-Braize deaths.

Frankly neither Rayse (who wanted to be top dog) nor Taravangian ("You must become king. Of everything.") strike me as all that good of a fit given what we see in RoW of the power enjoying arguments even when the Vessel doesn't want to be questioned. I'd think Odium (the power itself) would prefer a state of the universe where continual conflict is everywhere, vs. one where it/its Vessel is unquestioned ruler.

I have two issues with this timeline, which I don't think are totally answerable with the current books (but I think are hints that more is unrevealed): - According to the Stormfather in OB, the Oathpact was meant to end the war forever; Honor never considered the possibility that a Herald could "bend their oath", so no Returns/Desolations were envisioned. So what were the Honorblades for, since no fighting was intended to be necessary once the Oathpact existed? -Did war between humans and Singers continue between Aharietiam and the False Desolation? Or were there 2000+ years of peace when the Singers lived uninfluenced by the Fused and voidspren and humans believed that the Voidbringers were permanently defeated?

I have never been convinced by that interpretation of those death Rattles, and imo they don't necessarily refer to the same event/situation. It's possible all of book 5 will cover just ten days ("the Final Ten Days"). But I doubt the healing Ishar plan will work out.

Leshwi wasn't a Radiant, historically there weren't singer Radiants. But that doesn't necessarily rule out some form of bond, though less deep ("though broth are we, their meat is men" from the WoR epigraphs). I don't know if such a bond would give Surgebinding in some form - the Dawnsingers had something of that sort, but it might have involved working with lots of "ambient" non-sapient spren in the environment (apparently they 'talked to the stones' to do Stoneshaping) rather than a bond with a single individual true spren. EDIT: the Radiants began with spren imitating the Honorblades. So I think that any such ancient bond wouldn't have given Blade (or Plate) for sure... that seems to be a key element of Radiants.