Elenion

I'm not Flash and so can't speak for him, but I'll just chip in here that scanning and scan defense are often found on elim teams, so that the elims can find prospective target roles and protect their killer from being spotted. Generally things like vote manip and vigilante kills are kept scarce or nonexistent on elim team, and Pewter and Iron are sometimes present and sometimes not, but I can't think of a Scadrial game where the elims didn't have scanning, scan defense, or both. That's my thoughts on elim role distribution in case I'm killed tonight. If I'm killed, that means the elims either got a lucky pass through the Hazekill blockade or have an uninjured Hazekiller on their side. Scrutinize the Hazekillers carefully. I'm not leaving contingency plans for if I'm not killed because in that case I'd still be alive for analysis.

I think the most despicable characters aren't those who have been possessed (like in Rithmatist) or are mentally ill (Shallan's brother and Tonk Fah and Bleeder). The most despicable characters are those who are willingly despicable. In my eyes that makes Straff Venture the worst (him being a pervert doesn't help), with Sadeas and Roshone coming in second and third. Oh, and Tresting gets honorable mention. He's not alive for too long, but while he is, totally despicable.

I had a dream last night where I logged on to SE and this game was over. There were only 3 elims, and the last one was Sart. If that turns out to be right I'm going to laugh so hard.

I moved Flash's vote onto myself, because why not? I'm now out of Zinc, so I've got no actions remaining. Looks like we didn't get lucky with the Drought lynch, so next Day I suggest we target HH or Sart. HH warned us that he would be going inactive, and I'm a bit suspicious of Sart because there are quite a few older players in this game and both Meta and Araris appear to be on the up and up.

Okay, so unless Sart gets a new vial we can keep him on the Hazekill list. That's good. Because there aren't any non-Droughtbringer votes out, but I still need to prove my role, I'm going to have to Riot someone's vote away from Drought. I'm warning everyone in advance so that it doesn't look like a hammer vote.

I like to determine game length by looking at the number of potential kills per round. Assuming all players in the game decide to go berserk with the kill items, you could have up to 6 kills per round: the lynch, the elim kill, and 4 vigilante kills. Assuming 24 starting players, that would end the game in 4 rounds, which is a very short. More likely I'd plan for 3 or 4 kills per round: the lynch, the elim kill, and one or two vigilante kills. Using the previous estimate of 24 players, that creates a game with 6 to 8 rounds. This means that, assuming the vigilante weapons are used by conscientious villagers, the game shouldn't be incredibly short if all 4 weapons are in play. @BrightnessRadiant

I too think it would be best as an MR, because of the room mechanic. A player would have to keep track of who was in what room when.

@Araris ValerianBecause you stole HH's Copper, I doubt he's been on to order himself a spare, and even if he somehow had a spare that he's left unused then he can't be using it if he's actually inactive. @ManukosI was actually going to ask you to determine your target at random and then not share it with anybody. That makes it impossible for an elim in the bottom list to know if they are safe to make the kill or not. As to the assumption that both remaining Hazekillers are village, it would be great if that was the truth, but if an elim kill makes it through then we take a good look at the Hazekillers. An elim Hazekiller, therefore, would risk suspicion if they put the kill in. If they wanted to remain unsuspicious, they would play along with the plan, but that gives us unlimited time to remove the inactive players. Either way, the elim Hazekiller would be limited as we eat into their information advantage.

I've baked my plan a little more, and it goes like this: There are certain players in the game right now that "should not" be performing night actions, either because they have claimed that they do not have any to perform or because the player hasn't posted in the thread. If one of these players is caught performing a night action, it is effectively proven that it is the elim kill. Players who have claimed legitimate night actions: Meta Manukos Flash Araris Players that should not be performing night actions: Myself (only day actions remaining) Yitzi (no actions remaining) Sart (unless he posts in thread AND he just did as I'm typing this post) -- @Sarta roleclaim would be great, if you feel so inclined. We have one from basically everybody else. HH (unless he posts in thread) Our two Hazekillers, then, should be able to police the bottom group at random, without fear of blocking friendly actions. Now this puts the elims in a conundrum. If they have a player in the bottom group, they can't put in the elim kill without having a high chance of being blocked, and if they have a player in the top group, they can make the elim kill once, but that reveals their position and gives us more information. The end result of this strategy is the the elims will either have to stop making the elim kill, or each time they make it they give us a boatload of information as to what players could not have possibly done it.

Awesome, that clears me from putting in the elim-kill two cycles in a row, first by Hazing Yitzi and second by being Hazed by Manukos. Not necessarily; I put you up on my suspicions list, but I'm not a one-man mob. I don't control the lynch. Also, since you're a Hazekiller (I can confirm I took no actions last night, so that's a point in your favor), I'm thinking of a plan where we can use your role to ferret out the killer in our ranks, since you aren't Injured yet. With the consent of the target player, we can use you to "lock down" a player, guaranteeing that they couldn't have performed the elim kill. Actually, we've got Meta too... Plan forming... I want to hold off on the specifics of this plan until we find out Drought's alignment, because if he turns out evil the plan doesn't need to be as complicated, but I think I've cooked something up that should clinch us the win.

I'm going to combine the timelines from @Queen Elsa Steelheart and @Captains Domon. More RP to come when I've got time. The Queen slowly stepped forward, taking measured strides as she approached the demon. As she approached, its grip tightened on the knife still held to Elenion's throat. The metal felt icy, as if whatever was holding it was actually sucking heat from the air instead of producing it as a living being would. Suddenly, the knife fell from the demon's hand, clattering to the ground. Its former holder's body landed right next to it a second later, and the head a second after that. Elenion blinked in surprise. How could Rodel have moved that fast? Like a heat-seeking bullet, Rodel blurred away, and suddenly yelled in rage as he began to expand. Bigger. Bigger. Elenion didn't understand it, this form of magic that allowed Rodel to slash with his hands, blur like an arrow, and bulk up like a tank, but whatever it was, Elenion wasn't going to complain. Even free from the demon's icy grip, the fatigue of battle hung heavy on him, and his sword felt like it was made out of lead. He let the tip of it fall to the ground, and rested his weight on the crossguard. He heard his own voice inside his head, words of advice that he had given to many a green recruit, "You might think that a true soldier never rests, but that's just for the legends. A true soldier knows that he's worth more for his squad resting for a few minutes than dead forever, and if you don't rest, that's exactly what you're going to be. Dead."

When it comes to a low-prep, high-energy food, I practically swear by the PB + Nutella sandwich. A warning: it's a little drier than your average PB+J, but the carbs in the bread and the oils in the PB and Nutella will keep you going whether it's for a long hike or that one final that you're dreading. Newtella in Utah, both in the city and rural towns. I've lived in both.

@MetacognitionI'm not leveling an accusation at you that you did collude with Jon, I'm just saying that with the actions and roles involved it's possible (and as I'm writing this post Yitzi's clarification clears you). To answer your question, the Thief steals one item at random from their target. @Yitzi2 Then never mind. That clears Meta from being Jon's target. If me, Yitzi, Flash, Meta, and Araris are all in the clear, that only leaves Drought, HH, Manukos, and Sart. Sart seems completely gone at this point, and HH helped bust Jon, so today I want to lynch either Manukos or Drought. Looks like Drought it is.

@Seonid If a player burning Bronze is Hazekilled, will they be informed that their action was blocked, or will they just receive no scan results? Wait: if Meta's a Hazekiller, he was on right around turnover, and if a Hazekiller blocks another only the blocker is injured (unless they block each other), that means Meta could have put in a Hazekill action for Jon to block, saving Meta's action for later.

@Manukos I'd say it's unlikely but possible that there are two active elims. Probably has it that there's one active elim, and they put in the kill order. Because we know that Jon didn't Hazekill himself, and the chances that Yitzi and Jon lied about their actions that actually caused a Hazekill circle are microscopic, Jon's target is the key to finding who put in the elim kill that night. I specify the elim kill because metals are limited, so if Jon was planning on Hazekilling a teammate, he wouldn't have wanted them to waste their metal. Really, due to alibis from Yitzi, me, and Araris, the field is pretty narrow. But to ensure we're not overlooking the obvious, @The Flash did you successfully make an action the night that the Hazekilling mess occurred? If Flash wasn't blocked, then we have to assume that the player who put in the elim kill did not post in the thread that night. Meta was on right around turnover, if memory serves, and HH has been active on the Shard despite not posting much in any days. Maybe others were on during that night, too. @Metacognition if you were planning on roleclaiming this game, now would be a great time. I'd like to see what you've been doing this whole game, and if we can confirm you an alibi for last night or night before that would help greatly. Finally, I'm planning on Rioting this cycle to prove my role.

I haven't read Les Mis (or even seen the play), but this looks like it's going to be a blast. Sign me up as Roger Elariel, the rebellious son of a nobleman who joined the political activism scene as a young university student. Now he's at the barricade, fighting against his father and all that he stands for.

@Seonid Is it possible to Hazekill yourself?

That works. Once you're on the list to GM your first game, you'll be added into the SE GM PM (say that 5 times fast :D) where you can sign up for more games and watch as we try to figure out who's up to run what game when.

So now we know for sure that Jon was lying about his Hazekill. But back to the question we have yet to answer: whom did Jon block? Right now, I don't have an answer for that. Here's a thought: @Seonid If Jon had Hazekilled me, Yitzi had Hazekilled me, and I had Hazekilled Yitzi, would I have been injured due to Yitzi and I Hazekilling each other, or not because I was blocked by Jon? While I have time (despite it being 1 in the morning), here's my reads on all living players: HH: Been inactive for most of the game. He did help us find Jon out by corroborating Araris' story when he could have just stayed inactive, which makes me lean village on him. Flash: Assumed to be village by practically everybody, and with good reason. Role-claimed Mistborn. Manukos: Inactive, recently reactivated. One of my suspects for the inactive eliminator that probability says exists, along with Drought. Yitzi2: Confirmed Hazekiller, passed Pewter to Flash and saved Flash's life. Jon tried to throw doubt on him, which could have been attempted busing, but I'm reading village on Yitzi because I doubt the elims would have purposefully saved Flash. Cloud: Claimed Coinshot, and so far nobody has stepped forward to counterclaim. He was implicated in my analysis of "who could Jon have blocked" yesterday, so I'm suspicious of him, but if nobody steps forward to counterclaim then I think we can say that Cloud is village. Darn it, I really wanted to have sniffed out an elim. Drought: Inactive for most of the game, but now back. My other suspect for inactive eliminator, along with Manukos. Len: Confirmed Hazekiller and claimed Rioter. I've only got one clip of Zinc, and I conserved it last Day because it wasn't necessary to use, so I haven't proven my other role yet, but you can plan on me doing so tomorrow or next close lynch we have. I helped in the discussion that sniffed Jon out, although I was generally the skeptic until I realized that Brightness' PMs would have closed after her death. Araris: Basically confirmed Thief. He's not Village, but he's certainly not an elim, and he was key to catching Jon. As long as he doesn't start stealing important metals, I see no reason to suspect him or use actions on him. Meta: Meta is hard to read. He confirmed Araris' role and helped us to catch Jon, but that wasn't from altruism: had he lied, Araris would have outed him for it, and we would have lynched him for lying. Also, Meta is known to have bused teammates in past games, and I'm suspicious of Meta for surviving this long. We have given the elims other, more-attractive targets such as Flash, and Meta's activity has been sporadic, so I could see why the elims would have left a village!Meta alone. However, he was skeptical of Flash earlier, and that strikes me as a village thing because I think the elims would have told Flash they trusted him to get on his trusts list. Sart: Inactive, and not one of the two who I suspect to be the inactive elim. Still a possibility, though. Neutral read. In summary, Heavily Village: Flash, Cloud (if no counterclaim), Len (of course) Intermediate Village: Yitzi Slightly Village: HH Neutral: Araris (because he's neutral), Meta, Sart Slightly Suspicious: Manukos, Drought Intermediate Suspicious: [nobody] Very Suspicious: Cloud (if counterclaimed) And for those who don't have time to reread the entire thread (it's really long), here's the publicly claimed roles: HH: no claim Flash: Mistborn Manukos: no claim Yitzi: Hazekiller and no others Cloud: Coinshot Drought: no claim Len: Hazekiller and Hemalurgic Rioter Araris: Thief (has Cluny's Bronze Spike but not implanted) Meta: no claim Sart: no claim Now it's 1:30, I've just vomited up everything I know into the thread (I have no game PMs ), and I have work tomorrow, so I'm calling it a day.

Someone participating in Cluny's lynch had to have gotten the Spike, right? If not Jon, then which of the others? @Yitzi2 Double-roles are possible, like mine. I started with my Spike and my Hazekiller role.

I seriously doubt Ecth was in contact with the elims. It's not his style, and we haven't seen any evidence of poisoned vials.

Y'all hush. I come from a hillbilly Utah town, and we never use all y'all. We use y'all for plural and ya for singular. The problem I see with Jon's proposed Pewter Gambit that the elims could have pulled is that I can't see the elims wasting Pewter and a kill just to get Yitzi trusted a few cycles down the road. I would have just held onto the Pewter and wasted Flash. Quicker, easier, and more efficient. Yitzi, the writeup implied that you are a Thug, and my ribs want to know if that's actually the case.

I've got two things more to chip in: 1. Seeing as we're fairly sure that Jon didn't target Araris, that means that he did target somebody and block them, or else he wouldn't have been injured. Because nobody else has stepped forward to claim, and inactive players wouldn't have put in actions, there's a high chance that Jon conspired with a teammate for Jon to target them so that he would be injured, and this elim hasn't stepped forward because that would weaken Jon's position. 2. If Jon purposefully blocked a teammate, that teammate had to have had a free action to have Jon block. Starting from the top of the player list, I'm going to go through the players and see if they have an action "alibi" for last night. HH: Inactive last cycle Flash: Soft-cleared village, and so above suspicion in my book Manukos: Inactive last cycle Yitzi: Alibi: Hazekilling me Cloudjumper: NO ALIBI Jon: Alibi: Hazekilling somebody Drought: Inactive last cycle Me: Alibi: Hazekilling Yitzi Araris: Alibi: Stealing from Meta Meta: somebody said he had been inactive since Tuesday. He didn't post last cycle, so I'm inclined to say he was Inactive last cycle Sart: Inactive last cycle Looks like Cloud is the only one who didn't have an alibi for last night while still being on to perform an action, so assuming Jon's evil I think Cloud is the other active elim. Last cycle I posted my suspected elim team as: [Jon OR Araris] + [Meta OR Yitzi OR Cloud] + [HH OR Manukos OR Drought OR Sart] Putting Cloud and Jon in, and eliminating Araris and Yitzi as suspects because Yitzi gave Flash Pewter and Araris is basically confirmed Thief [Jon OR Araris] + [Meta OR Yitzi OR Cloud] + [HH OR Manukos OR Drought OR Sart] Because Cloud tunneled pretty hard on Meta earlier, I don't think Cloud and Meta are on the same team (the reason I put them in an "or" bracket together), and so I'll take Meta off. I also think the inactive elim is one of the ones who just activated, so I'll take off HH and Sart. [Jon OR Araris] + [Meta OR Yitzi OR Cloud] + [HH OR Manukos OR Drought OR Sart] Presenting: The Len Inquisition hit list!

I don't think I've heard my feelings towards the stick expressed so clearly and poetically before. Put this in the Coppermind!

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/57779-how-was-aimia-invaded-in-the-first-place/?do=findComment&comment=529402