DeTess

Ah, apologies. From what you've written it seemed to me like you where saying Joe was the one to ask for a role-trade. That really confused me as it seemed to indicate someone was making an extremely aggressive play in C1.

Okay. Falsely accusing someone and forcing a he-said, she-said situation backed up with a little bandwagon is a classic elim tactic...for the final cycle, not for C1. I honestly have some trouble seeing why elim!@A Joe in the Bush would do something this risky this early. It makes slightly more sense if this is an attempt by elim!Jondesu to try and save his hide, but even then there's plenty of holes in the story. Has anyone else had any offers for a role-trade from either Joe or Jondesu?

It seems so. The distinction would be that Joe didn't immediately ask for a role-swap, but first discussed some other things with me in our PM.

I'll probably have a bigger post up in a couple of hours, but I just wanted to but in on the current trend to vote Jondesu based on him offering a role-swap right off the bat. Both Joe and Walin offered to do role-swaps with me. Walin in his first Pm to me, but Joe in a more pushy way by immediately revealing his role to me without first checking if I wanted to do a swap, which could be a tactic to try and guilt me into revealing my own role. Both these offers came after I'd posted in the thread that I recommend extreme caution whit sharing roles with others this game. What I'm trying to say here is that Jondesu offering to do a role-swap isn't a unique occurrence, and the fact that he didn't include his alignment seems quite reasonable for the reasons he apparently stated. Of course, I don't have access to the PM between Joe and Jondesu, so it could quite easily be that Jondesu said some other things that made Joe suspicious. However, with the information currently shared I don't really see a reason to vote on Jondesu, and I'm quite surprised how quickly some other people voted on him.

That would be unfortunate, but good catch either way.

Hey guys, just wanted to let you know an Exam period has started for me. I should still be quite active, but If I suddenly go quiet for a cycle I've probably suddenly panicked and gone into crunch mode. I don't expect this to happen, but you never know. Now that that's out of the way, let's talk game rules. First thing of importance to know is this: You will not be told when you are poisoned! This means that the only way you'll know is if your action has a clearly defined effect, or if a Surgeon's Apprentice tries to heal you and you get told that you are no longer poisoned for a cycle. This means that the Surgeon's apprentice('s) are really important as they can inform you when you are poisoned and allow you to base your actions on that. Therefore I'd like to ask all surgeon's apprentice's to keep using your actions each cycle, even if you don't have anyone in mind that could or could not be poisoned, as you could just get lucky and get someone some vital information about their current condition. I've got some advice regarding some of the other roles and the poisoned condition relating to them as well: Merchant: You're an alignment scanner, which is great. Your scan results can also be flipped, which is not so great. I'd be careful of outing a found spy unless you find one on C1 because of the poisoned condition. Ideally, if you think you've found a spy, scan someone you scanned before) the next cycle to check that you haven't been poisoned before you out them. Or wait longer to gather more information, of course. Just be careful that you don't wrongly accuse someone because you've been poisoned as that will likely result in you getting lynched and/or assassinated next turn. Guardsman: normally, I'd say that the guardsman should be guarding someone every cycle, but there's a risk tied to this now as a poisoned guardsman will instead kill the on they sought to protect. The up-side is that the guardsman will then know he is an assassin type role now. The downside is that someone they thought would be worthy of protection is now dead. I think the guardsman should make careful judgement about using their abilities, and on whom they do so. Always weight the risk of the one you sought to protect dying because you've been poisoned. That having been said, you should probably still be using your abilities, just be smart about it. Assassin: All the usual assassin caveats and warnings apply. So don't kill just because you can, only kill if you've got a good suspicion. Worldsinger: you are on of the roles least affected by poisoning in my opinion. Your impact on the votes is reduced, but at least it isn't reversed. Normally my recommendation for vote manipulation is to use your ability only when you believe it is necessary to make it more difficult for the elims to anticipate the amount of manipulation around, but because of the poisoning mechanic there is something to be said for using your ability as often as possible, just to allow you to detect when you've been poisoned. Because of the additional manipulation options that knowing someone's role gives the elims, I would be incredibly careful about sharing your role with anyone else. @TheMightyLopen @Steeldancer, based on the structuring of the rules, it seems this game is role-madness. Can you confirm or deny this? Furthermore, how much distinction in the write-ups will be made between the different type of kills and kill-stops? Are assassin, guard and elim kills differentiated? Will it be shown if a poisoned assassin protects someone, or will that not be mentioned at all? How about kill-attempts where someone is protected?

Blasphemy!

If you want to look at a more roleplay heavy game, I'd take a look at lg30 or lg33. 'Gameplay' and RP is kept separate by many, but not all people. Arraenae is a player who often combines the two, so take a look through a game she played in for an example of that.

Anyway, seems to me like we need some more players. @Amanuensis, I saw you were back (and then promptly got lynched C1 in the LG -_-). Want to join this game?

Hey, a Stormlight game. It's been a while since I was in one of those. I'll be Tenodin, an ex-soldier, ex-mercenary, ex-bandit (in that order) who has aquired a debilitating fear for highstorms during his time as a soldier.

@Drake Marshall, I am a bit worried about only having a 24 hour lynch in an LG, as well as the 'no talking for a third cycle'. I was wondering if it would be possible to rearrange the cycles for a 48 hour false-light, and then the day and night hapoening in different threads in the same 24 hour slot. This might not fit the fluff quite as well, but it might help keeping everyone involved.

So, it was a wgg after all. Also sony and mestiv where both evil...something something called it (edit2: though in Sony's case, for all the wrong reasons, apparently)? Incredibly well done to the elim team, btw, and especially to Mestiv(and Orlok, but he doesn't really need more praise). I might have picked up on something alignment indicative in the thread from Mestiv, but I hadn't realized he was in the Noble doc at all. I was, in fact, convinced that 'mr. Green' was Orlok, so that's saying something. Speaking of Orlok, I believe you've been an elim in 3 out of the last 4 games we've played. I hope you'll understand if I start operating under an 'elim untill proven otherwise' stance where you're considered . Edit: also my thanks to elenion and elbereth for running this game, and the great writeups

First of all, it would make sense for the elims to try and remove a Noble, especially if they havecone of their own among them. Even if they haven't got an elim among the nobles reducing their numbers will reduce their information and reduce the chances of the noble kill hitting an elim. Second of all, I don't see why a villager would want to anonimously vote on Jondesu, while it would make sense for the elims to try and sneak a vote in without tipping their hand. This isn't 100% certain, if course, and it depends in part on Drake having been right about DA (which would suggest the elims both have a noble and would like to seize control if the noble kill).

I'd been planning on posting another once-over of all the players, but I'm coming down with a cold right now and am not at my sharpest, so this'll likely have to do for today. Now, let's start with Manukos. his 'I'm an elim' post keeps being rather confusing, but his explanation that he was trying to shake things up is, in my opinion, the best I'v seen out of the possibilities. That doesn't mean it's a good explanation, just that it has less holes than 'Manukos is an elim applying advanced reverse psychology' or 'Manukos is a jester trying to get himself killed'. Asterion does make an interesting point about information that could be gained from Manukos's Lynch. However, he doesn't explain how Manukos flipping village would help us. "We should lynch him because if he's evil it'll help us" isn't much of an explanation if you don't explain thoroughly why someone would be evil. If we use information gained if someone proves to be evil as the only reason for a lynch, we should all lynch Orlok, as if he's evil we can probably catch a significant portion of the elim team. Right, then there's Asterion. He's not exactly wrong in saying that lynching him won't gain us much info. If he flips elim, we know that Manukos is probably good, but that's about it. If he proves to be good, there isn't much info to be gained. Of course, as I said above, this isn't the only measure by which we should judge if someone needs to be lynched. I hoenstly don't think elim!Asterion would be trying so hard to lynch Manukos, especially because he's been getting blowback for doing this. So I don't really think Asterion is evil either. For that matter, if I had to choose between Asterion and Manukos, I would go with Manukos. Asterion's behavior in the end of last thread and in this one just seem more village-like to me. Elims would not be trying so hard to get someone lynched over multiple cycles unless they truly believe it's the game-ending move. Now, to move on to other people. First, I'm by now reasonably certain that Jondesu isn't lying about being a Noble. If he hadn't been, someone would have come to call him out on it by now. Him being a Noble doesn't say anything about his alignment though. I'm fine with leaving him alive for now though (provided he actually shares some info in his new 'role'), as being able to talk to the Nobles without needing to have anyone else reveal might prove to be useful, even if the man in between is an elim (he'd probaby have a hard-time actually lying or twisting words if there are other nobles watching over his shoulder). Now, for a short intermezzo: @Megasif, @Doc12, @queensteph, though I wouldn't mind knowing the alignments of at least some of you by the end of the cycle, I'd prefer to see you post your thoughts even more. Oh, this reminds me of something. If we, for the moment, assume the the politician vote that had been placed on Jondesu is indeed done by an elim then there are only a coupe of suspects: Sony, Alvron, Doc and Manukos. I've reduced it to these four by checking who voted this cycle (no votes disappeared, so all of the voters are clean). It probably wasn't Straw, as retracting your vote and then throwing it right back again using a power seems odd. Finally, I can rule out Megasif and queensteph, as neither have been online since Saturday as of the time I'm writing this. Now, of course, people that are not these 4 could still be evil,but I'm fairly sure there is at least 1 elim among these four. I've explained above why I'm not overly suspicious of Manukos right now. I don't know one way or another about Alvron, because despite him showing at least some reactions to various posts, it still doesn't particularly allow for analysis. It could be doc, but I don't have a particular read on him one way or another. His play and post-style seems similar to that of the last item I played with him and was in the same thread (so LG37 doesn't count), but he was an elim in that game, and didn't get caught, so I'm not sure how indicative that is. I've never played with Sony before. He seems to be mostly coasting along and keeping his posts short, but he does post some insights now and again, which is generally fairly NAI behavior. It is of Note that this cycle is the first time he has voted, though, despite voicing suspicions before. It makes one wonder if he was intentionally refraining from voting so that he could keep his ability ready for use without standing out int he vote count, however. So I'm somewhat torn between voting on Alvron and Sony right now. However, The fact that Sony has been mostly abstaining form voting until now does turn the scales against him slightly, so Sony. My evidence form him potentially being an elim is really quite circumstantial, but I believe this is a line of questioning that needs to be pursued. Vote tally: Manukos(2): Alvron, Asterion Asterion(2): Orlok, SOny Sony(1): Randuir

Okay, so going back to my line of thought from last night. If Straw hadn't retracted his vote on Jondesu last minute, the politician vote would have put Jondesu at risk. This could have been an unusual form of a WGG, in which elim!poltiician tried to make it look like the elims wanted elim!Jondesu lynched, but this seems a bit of a round-about way to go about it (plus, Jondesu would probably have made the observations I did in that case to make sure no one missed this event*). If this was an elim attempt to take Jondesu out with the lynch, then it stands to reason that some of those that voted on him are elims as well. Mestiv was the one that kept his vote on Jondesu, while his reasoning was that he was just at the top of the list of less active people, and the fact that others joined the vote was a reason to keep on it (even though when he presented this reasoning, the other vote by Straw had retracted already, though those posts where close together, so he might not have seen that). There is one other thing that stands out, however. If we assume that Jondesu claimed in the Noble doc, why would the elims then try lynching him, rather than just putting in a kill against him? The only reason I can think of is that they didn't want to reveal the presence of an elim in the Noble Doc by making it seem like he died of 'Natural causes'. Still, if they did move against him through the lynch it would put them at risk if they got spotted. Ninja'd by Orlok at around this time. I'll try to give more thoughts on the game in a bit. I'd like to hear @Jondesu's answers to my question from last cycle before I do that, if he's willing to answer them, that is. *unless, of course, me and Jondesu are on the elim team together, though in that case I probably would have ignored the possiblity of it being a WGG.

At the end of last cycle, this was the vote tally if I'm not mistaken: Asterion (1) - Randuir Roadwalker (3) - Orlok, BR, jondesu Manukos (1) - Asterion Jondesu (1) - Mestiv In other words, someone added a vote to Jondesu. Now, it could have been Drake, but I don't remember him expressing suspicion of Jondesu. Another possiblity is that it was an elim politician. "But Randuir, Drake was a politician. Couldn't he have been the one that voted on DA in C1, meaning that there is no elim politician?" Ah, very astute, my dear sockpuppet. However, you might remember Drake mentioning that he thought that DA had been the work of the elims. He probably wouldn't have said this if he had been the one to vote on him, given that he is village. There could have been a third village politician as well, who decided to move against Jondesu for some reason, but I don't see why a villager would see the need for stealth in moving against him. If we assume that it was an elim politician that did it, it means we can rule out the people that voted from being that elim politician. It doesn't rule out too many people, but it might be a good start. It's late here, so I'll eb back after I've had some sleep with some more thoughts(hopefully).

Had this in an edit to my previous post, but straw ninja'd me. I actually find this post somewhat suspicious on a second read. Not enough to switch my vote at this point, but enough for me to want to point it out, just in case I'm not around anymore next cycle. Straw seems to back off quite quickly after Jondesu's revelation, without even seeming to question whether Jon might be lying to try and save himself (I don't think so, unless the elims could get control of the noble kill if they kill one more Noble, which they could get by forcing a Noble to speak up and out Jon). He then continues to make a public request for the guard to protect Jondesu, which would be a way of ensuring that the elim kill goes through this cycle as long as they don't target Jon. This might also be the kind of suggestion an elim might make if he's just missed out on 2 successful night kills. Btw, @Jondesu, would you be willing to tell us when you (claim to have) claimed in the Noble doc? I'm just curious if Queensteph's vote on you last cycle could have been related to the claim. Also, did DA post in the Noble doc before his death, and if he did, could someone have figured out who he was based on what he posted?

Though it would not exactly be a bad idea for a guardsman to protect Jondesu, they should also very much make their own mind up. After all, if they follow the suggestions in the thread than it won't be particularly difficult for the elims to avoid hitting someone that is protected.

There's usually a couple, but it seems like there's more in this game than in others I've played.

Yeah, okay , but... (actually checks what SAT is). Oh, that's actually a good excuse. Still, if you've got time, even sharing a couple of opinions on various players (say, Orlok, Drake, and 1 or 2 others) could help with settling my suspicions, if you've got time.

The main reason I didn't vote for roadwalker was that I can't rule out that he's just become very suspicious of the kills around you. The way he mentioned it does make me suspicious of him, but unlike with some other players, I can't rule out to a reasonable degree that he's being sincere in his suspicion. I also don't think his lynch will give that much more info than asterion. Part off my vote on Asterion is in that I know that he's capable of putting out more content, so that makes me suspicious of his quietness, while it also makes me hope that he'll put out more content for me to get a better read on him if he's put under the thread of a lynch. Edit: to further explain the statement regarding info: If evil!roadwalker is lynched, it would further reinforce the fact that Orlok is probably good. Lynching evil!asterion would suggest that Manukos might be good. If either of them is lynched and flips village, it might be worthwhile to take another look at their suspicions. That is the basic info that comes from their alignments if either of them is lynched. deeper analysis shows more, but I don't think Roadwalker would give more info than Asterion, and I'm roughly equally suspicious of the two of them.

I might have missed the part in LG33 where the elims went through a number of hoops to get Orlok trusted. I thought he just got unlucky, went insane, and everyone else just kind-of considered him good when he returned. I died relatively early in the game though, so I might have missed it. Anyway, can you explain why you think sacrificing not 1 but 2 kills to try and get Orlok trusted by the village would be worth it, especially when he wasn't really on anyone's radar yet (for as far as I know)? I mean, you should probably never trust Orlok 100%, but given how slow this game has been, I'll take the chance to limit the amount of ground I've got to cover to find the elims.

Just a warning: this post is going to be a bit rambling. So, first of all, I'd like to spend some more time thinking about the attack on Orlok. As I said, the double-tap really seems overdoing it if it's a WGG, so I think the more likely scenario is that the elims really want Orlok to die. This strikes me as somewhat odd. It doesn't seem like Orlok is on to any of the elims yet, and since this game doesn't have any PM's it's unlikely Orlok has said something to the wrong people to make himself a target. The only thing I can think of is that he's a Noble and has somehow outed himself in their doc, and if that was the case I think he might have claimed at this point given that the elims seem to be targeting him quite consistently. This means that the elims main motivation for targeting Orlok two cycles in a row could quite possibly be to get an experienced player out of the game before he becomes a threat. There are a number of players that are unlikely to use this kind of mindset. ...Unfortunately, most of those aren't playing this game, so it doesn't allow me to actually limit the number of suspects much, if at all. Still, I feel this might be worth pointing out, as there might be some others that can do something with this line of reasoning. Anyway, there is still at least 1 politician out there who might just be an elim. Therefore we shouldn't leave the vote to this politician. Roadwalker's opening comment this cycle makes me slightly more suspicious of him as he seems to have made a 180 turn regarding the possibility of a WGG (which he didn't even seem to consider at the start of last cycle). I makes me wonder if he's an elim trying to salvage their second lost kill by using it to make Orlok look even more suspicious. Asterion also has caught my attention because, though he posts a couple of times per cycle, he isn't actually saying anything. Looking back through his posts, they are almost all one-liners with most not really relating to the game at all. I know that he is quite capable of putting up more from past games as well, so for now I'm going to vote on him (asterion).

Honestly, though I'm not completely disregarding the WGG tactic yet, I don't think the elim team would waste two kills on it in a rather obvious display (if they where going to do it, they ought to space it out a bit to make it more believable). So yeah, Orlok is probably good.

I was going to say that I did not intend to move my vote. However(mestiv), I'm going to consolidate the vote on steeldancer to prevent the ploy I was wondering about in my first post this cycle. I'm still suspicious of Mestiv. It is true that he's a new player, but showing insincerity in a post is a mistake something that more experienced players wouldn't make. I'm also still weary of Alvron, but the fact that apparently he is interacting with the game more than I initially thought means that he isn't a 'safe' lynch to get info on others that voted against him. Manukos's move still really confuses me, but it's a NAI kind of confusion. Vote tally Manukos(2): asterion, Steeldancer, Doc Steeldancer(4): Alvron, Orlok, Manukos, Randuir Mestiv(0): Randuir Alvron(1): Mestiv