kais

Yes, I'm behind again. But not as behind as I used to be! Overall Generally, this was just fine. Pacing moved well and there were good narrative arcs. I'm still just not connecting, really, with the characters or their goals. This could be partly WRS, but I think is more that the issues I had with character connection and motivation from the first few chapters never got really addressed (for me), and that's traveling through to these later chapters. Same. A quick verbal pass would help catch those, if you had the time. Although reading to yourself, outloud, gets you weird looks in coffee shops. I am certainly not speaking from experience. This is also exactly my issue. I don't connect unless I get a memory job, but then the character slips away again almost as quickly as they came. Same. I don't know where the story is going, so it's hard to be invested in side adventures that do not appear to advance the narrative. With bigger space operas like this, I think third person is a great way to go. It gives you a lot more opportunity for worldbuilding, at least in my opinion #iagreewithrobinski In terms of shelving...I'd do the alternate POV or move it into third with multiple POVs, first. It has the makings of a reasonable space opera. I think first person present, with one POV, is really really limiting what you can do with it, though. As I go page 59: is it actually a room for a Spartan, or called the Spartan room, or is it just spartanly decorated? Capitalization potential misuse here - page 61: you've got a capitalized 'c' in croon that should be lowercase - page 61: chitin on stone, not of stone - page 62: how can our protag slither away? I thought the beetle thing had tentacles around a neck or something? Blocking is unclear - page 64: young tired? - page 64: Al has a 'her' pronoun at the end of the page which I assume is a typo? - page 65: even being called 'ladies' in jest could be really detrimental to a person. I'm surprised there isn't more emotional reaction to that - I do enjoy that ship name - page 73: yeah okay so if they actually make binders like this, fess up. I want one. - but doesn’t suffocate me like cheap fabric ones I used to wear OMG relate to this so much

HOORAY!

I think I did one sentence?

Since I'm out of town, if you're willing, I say you do it! Should we all send your our little bio tag lines?

I agree that ally is best, and impartial can be wonky since sometimes you have to come down on the side of non-bigotry. Once we have a combined version I'll do a more careful read through and then maybe we submit? I can submit it, if no one else wants to.

I love your draft, @Silk, I love this title! I don't have any real edits at this point. Do you want us to send you little bylines, or wait until we decide who is submitting it, @Silk?

As @Silk said, I think the groups want very different things. Here, we're publishing oriented and we've taken a strong line for inclusion and exploring our biases. The other forums seem more like back-pat places, which is also just fine. People go where they are comfortable and for what they want to do. Plus, we're awesome here.

Yes because we love you and you should be there!!!!!!!!!!! These edits look great! I could go either way. It is still too long, probably, although I've been on panels where people give like one word answers, so I always like to have a few others in the que, just in case. Excellent! Then we can get it submitted! Thank you @Silk!

In terms of the forms, I’d actually suggest everyone fill out the linked one immediately. It’s just a base contact form with boxes for the right to contact you. In a few weeks then they send you the actual survey form, but the website strongly encourages you to fill out the base form ASAP. Something about filling up quickly?

Heads up! If you want to be considered for panels, you have to fill out this form. Do it quick before it fills! Also, the link is up to pitch panels. Did anyone have edits to my draft? @Silk

My last one to catch up on! I feel so accomplished! Overall Excellent pacing and tension in this one. Really good hooks. I still struggle with J and his random rage, but I assume that can be cleaned up in future edits. LOVE the human marrow part. Horrifying and gross. Just perfect. Carry on! Also confused on this Yes this. What are they arguing about? Why is J so mad? As I go - page 80: I feel like our protag should have a lot more feelings and questions about what happened to him, because I certainly do - page 84: so drawing on the tiger marrow is what did it? I think that may need to brought out more, and earlier - page 85: I'm confused. Why is J mad at C? Because she won't... fall in love with him? Won't stay in Wren? Won't put out? Where is his anger coming from, because it read like they had a reasonable heart to heart, and she explained her pain, and he...got mad that she's got some emotional damage/trauma? I mean, did he not think to maybe ask about it, or share some of his own pain to help her feel less alone? C remains a fairly well written characters, and surprisingly deep emotionally, but J never seems written quite to her level. I don't know if you're doing this on purpose or not, to show J's flaws, either. - page 86: his hump bumped a table? His hip? Or is this a Fergie/Black Eyed Peas song thing? - 89: human marrow ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww - Oooh, solid end line

I am actually on this week's subs I think! WOOOOOO Overal I felt like this really lacked what I think you were trying to go for. There are potentially clever bones, but the metaphors weren't upheld, nor consistent, and the satire fell more into diatribe. I'd suggest replacing real world platforms and such with other fairy tale imagery. Make it more complex. It's a social statement that comes off spiteful, with no real finesse, and I think the beats you want are either missing, or in the wrong places. Another layer or two of 'world,' I think, would bring this piece to what you're likely going for. Your questions Is the voice consistent? Yes, but the world is not, which makes the voice seem out of place sometimes Did it make you laugh? No. It made me raise my eyebrows a few times though Where are they typos and missing words? Might be a bit early for LBLs, but generally tense changes were problematic, especially at the start What could I do to make it better? Build the world 'thicker.' Build it 'deeper.' You start off strong with connecting real world internet trolls to fairy tale imagery. Go with that. Instead of calling out Twitter directly, find a great fairy tale metaphor to use. Modernize village callers or something. There's an episode of Lost Girl - one of the between season shorts, that does exactly what I think you're trying to do, very very well. I can snag you a link if you'd like. LOL well then, you've come to the right critique group! Yes this As I go - page one: too many tense changes - I'm not sure this is really doing what you want it to. If you're going to try to deliver a clever monologue on internet trolls (disguised as real, fairy tale trolls), then you'd want to also disguise platforms and other 'real world' stuff to maintain the illusion. Right now it's just a monologue about internet trolls, without any subtlety. - page 2: this keeps bouncing between satire and real and it makes it hard to stay invested in the narrative

Got it! Unclear why my e-mail has been randomly eating subs recently. Overall It's really hard for me to judge a chapter in the middle of a book, since I don't have any of the hooks I need to care. I don't know anything about the characters, nor their backgrounds, motivations, nor do I have a through line for the narrative. As such, it's very hard to stay focused and care about a game that is playing for stakes I don't know about. I'm not sure how much help my comments will be. Generally I found the gameplay too long and drawn out, because I didn't care about the players or the outcome. That could easily change if I knew more about them and the world. Seconded. This reminds me of your battle scenes, which tend to be very elaborate, detailed, and drawn out. But with those, because you spent so much time worldbuilding and character building, they could be really cool. This lacked the backstory. Also agree. I just didn't care about the game at all. Yes. Very easily. Nothing wrong with that at all, though. I have been known to dabble in Star Wars fanfic myself. OMG the scenes of sabacc in the EU (the old one, before they deleted it) were always so cool. I agree with all of this completely. As I go - That second paragraph is wordy in the dialogue. I think it would work if we were first introduced to the character, but since I have no investment in them, it comes off as very 'Joss Whedon.' - page four: your Star Wars line probably would have to be said in dialogue to not be copyright infringement. I think. - page six: the only female in this narrative thus far is a casino, apparently - page seven: I'm unclear at this point what the, er, point is, of the narrative? - page nine: casino owner is interesting, but the back and forth seems flat. If your MC is trying to verbally trap her into playing with him, both sets of dialogue are coming off as stilted. I think it's the dialogue style, the 'Joss Whedon' effect. It can work in banter, especially on screen, but it's generally too wordy for books because the time it takes to read it detracts from any building tension. It might work better to only have one or two characters use that speech style. Make the casino owner much more directly, with shorter sentences, to show the difference - page 13: while I love a gambling scene as much as the next person, I don't yet care about these characters. I don't understand their motivations, their goals, their fears, and what the plot line is. Without these things it's hard to care at all about the gambling scene. Like with gambling, what fun is it if there aren't any stakes? - I don't understand the ending.

Well, I can almost see the bottom of my email again. WOOHOO! Overall Not a lot to comment on. These are bridge chapters, which are fine. It's been too long since I last read from you, so I find myself wondering what the through line is, and why I care about these characters. I'm assuming that's WRS and my medical leave though. I like the carrot of the night club and potentially outfits and glitter. Good hook. Agree. this would be amazing This exactly Same. I have no memory of this plot point being relevant, but also possible WRS This makes sense to me, because in Ard I've taken the tech in a non-standard direction, whereas in Oomph it's following a more standard course. Oomph relies on cutting edge tech, the Pledge deals in stuff from Y's life (and he was born in the 1980s). So I can see the argument for no currency, especially intergalactically, in a truly 'advanced' book, like Oomph. Your questions - you expect an emotional reaction from a character but don't get one or places where there is actually appropriate emotional reaction There wasn't much emotion in here to emote. More than anything I thought we were being spoon fed in MC's head too much, instead of getting reactions from the characters - where there is some illogical or nonsensical piece of world building or you are missing something key about the world or a place where I did something right related to world building Right now, no issues here. - places where you get bored/lost or places are very engaged with the story. These are bridge chapters, so while there wasn't much tension, I didn't expect any, either. Sometimes it's okay to have 'just a day on a ship.' As I go - those opening paragraphs where MC is rationalizing and recapping actually make me feel more distant. I think I'd rather see this struggle through dialogue and action, rather than mental thought - same with lines like: Al and I earned are status as fugitives. Zeek was pushed here by things out of his control. I already know this. I don't need to be told it. It feels like you're not giving the reader enough credit to figure things out on our own - page 38: same deal here. We get mental musings which push me from the narrative, but then the weapons are exposed and the impact from that is much more effective. It answers my questions without the direct questions being fed to me - page 39: "while you make love to that." LOL!

Good call, @Silk! So, as we continue to spitball (all tentative of course, change at will), and trying to get Silk's ideas into a format: Title: Critique Groups and Echo Chambers: Making Sure You're Actually Being Challenged (that's too long, surely. Someone help) Topic 1: Homogenity versus heterogeneity in group composition. What each brings to the table Q1: How did your critique group form and did the person in charge work to make sure it was diverse? Why or why not? (good place to address how hard it is to get anybody in a crit group that really will stay, so sometimes you take what you can get) Q2: What are the benefits of a homogenous group, whether in background or genre? Q3: What are the benefits of a heterogeneous group, whether in background or genre? Topic 2: The role of moderators in critique groups Q1: Does your group have a moderator? If so, what role do they serve? Q2: What role should a moderator serve in a critique group? Q3: How can moderators ensure marginalized voices are not drowned out? Topic 3: How to make sure your critique group enables a culture of diversity (and does not depend on the emotional labor of the marginalized writers) Q1: If your group is homogenous, how do you make space for marginalized writers? Q2: How do you attract and keep marginalized writers in a dominant culture group? Q3: What are common pitfalls you have seen in critique groups trying to be inclusive? Topic 4: Allyship in critique groups- group roles in fostering inclusive environments Q1: What is the role of an ally in a critique group? Q2: Should members feel compelled to speak out against other critique members who are acting poorly? Q3: Maintaining the peace versus challenging bias- which is more important in a critique group? What if you lose members who are otherwise fantastic writers and contribute regularly, just because they are biased? Topic 5: Taking critiques that challenge your worldview and understanding Q1: How have you responded in the past to someone saying your work is biased? Do you regret your response? Q2: How should writers respond to critiques they don't agree with (in terms of being called biased)? Q3: For marginalized critiquers, what are the dangers to you in calling out bias? How do you expect people to respond versus how they actually respond? Topic 6: Personal notes - comments from the panel members about their personal journeys (I think this is a great way to end OR begin, with really personal 'this is how I was coming in, this is how I felt, this is how my time here changed me) Q1: How did you first get involved with a critique group? What was it's composition? Did that composition change over time and if so, how did that affect you and your writing? YES! But who has the graphical skills???

I don't have this one in my email. Could you resend it @aeromancer?

OR you could change the physical description of Innas' human form, thereby continuing the cycle of RE writers cameo-ing other characters into their books. DO IT

For sure. The Charted Systems use diamond rounds, and the Alliance uses sapphires. Ard itself has a whole different currency system I think was andal chits. They're not often used, however, and mostly they're there to show the sort of 'old' tech side of things used by the crew. It is only 2060, after all. In the backstories you find out that Earth pushed for diamond currency because of the diamond mines on Jupiter, and because Earth can't give up its currency.

ACK! Here we are again General I thought this segment went a bit slow. The entry could be cut, I think, to the 'what's your name' line, and I'm not sure about the murderous rage at all. I think this section needs some tightening. It has reasonable bones, but the meat might need some trimming. I did really enjoy the recital! Agreed. As I go - I think this chapter should start at the 'what's your name' line. The stuff before just slows down the building tension - page 74: can the lady not tell that he is just spewing nonsense and flattering her to get a look at her library? He seems super transparent to me - ehh? The murderous rampage from the headache seems... a lot. For a headache. I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief here

Back for more Overall I have growing concerns about A. From the 'good moderate Muslim' comment from last week, and now the MC finding A's language strange and his food weird, I feel like A is more a poor caricature instead of a fully fleshed person. Also, since this is dystopian so therefore the future, how come our MC has not been exposed to other cultures. As a person now, in the USA, we have plenty of exposure to at least general cooking traits from around the world, if nothing else. I don't see that reflected here, making the time period look more 1950 USA than something in the future. I also have deep concerns about this bra thing. Will withheld further judgement until I see how it plays out. I noted it below as well. Raised my hackles immediately. It'd be a better moment if our MC saw that scene, and it helped him humanize the two antagonists. Uh, apparently I completely missed this line when reading. Went back and found it. Also nope. I agree with @Mandamon. Women are perfectly capable of picking up trash and in a place like this, where people spend their lives, either you have a huge queer population or you've got a relatively even ratio of men to women because people want companionship and families and such. Third, if the woman is known for her beauty, we'd better at least get a decent description because 'beauty' as a word means relatively little. If she's known for her beauty because she's the only woman on the island, that would be a plot point worth exploring. Same. I need more layout because all I have for a mental picture is heaps of garbage. YESSSS this. I also noted it below. The 'otherness' seems blatant and unnecessary. Dirty secret about acid rain- it increases soil fertility because it is full of nitrates and sulfates. Also, pines love acidic soil, so they'd thrive in this environment. If you want to say the soil became acidic so it killed some trees, I'd need a region of the US. For instance, paper birch does poorly in acid rain, and that grows in the northeast. Sugar maple would doo poorly in extreme acid rain, and that's the northeast, too. The trouble here is that it would have to be a part of the country that could realistically GET acid rain. To get it you have to be downwind of industrial areas. The west coast doesn't get acid rain because it's downwind of the ocean. So really it's only the northeast of the USA that gets acid rain due to the factories in the midwest. If you're in another country though, we can talk geography for there. But basically, use my fungi or insect suggestions below. Much more realistic. Source: the silviculture professor I'm married to who had a really fun time ranting about this. Confused. Whose parents? Whose growth are we trying to show? As I go - if the protag is going to taunt someone for a perceived cross-gendered clothing item, I've lost all empathy for the character. Like, flat out, that would get me to put down a book and never pick it up again unless the MC was purposefully supposed to be an absolute arse - at this point, I'm starting to really wonder about the through line of this narrative. What is our MC's main goal? What is driving the plot? There doesn't seem to be a direction, just sort of wandering. I need more sense of purpose by chapter three, or I start to wonder why I'm still reading. It could be fixed with just a few lines, really, but I need to know why I should care about our MC, especially if he's insulting people based upon their 'gendered' clothing choices - ding ding ding! First female character! - this is my wood scientist face, frowning. The pine trees died when the soil became too acidic? Pine is a genus, not a species, comprising thousands of species. Plenty thrive just fine in acidic soils. Pine nuts are produced by many pine species, not just one. You'll need to either be more specific with the species (and thus pick one that does in fact have soil acidity problems) or change your cause of death. Pines don't generally occur in warm climates so you could make a sweeping statement about climate change or something, I suppose. It'd be easier to have an insect get them all though, or an insect + fungus

I'd love this more if you had more than one woman in it. Love the idea of a solid woman who isn't a love interest or a sacrifice, but if you could also smatter some women in with the general crowds and thugs and such, it'd be much better. Happy to help on your main woman!

ACK! DEAD HORSE! the sex scene edition. SO PREPARED. Overall Hmm. I think it was a bit slow to start, and some superfluous descriptions. The bathing scene was good, although I think you could bring the sexual tension, specifically, out a lot more between this sub and the last one. How close are we to the end? I do have anticipation for the actual heist, and getting into the house was excellent. I go back and forth on it. Sometimes it's spot on, sometimes it feels forced. It felt a bit forced in this one, and I think that might be because it needs to go just a shade slower. Like, their scene in the water could just be a kiss and maybe a caress or something, thereby keeping the tension high through the heist (and giving them a chance to have hurried sex or something during the heist??) OMG please let this be a thing! Also agree that the fade to black probably didn't even need a warning tag. Very tame. As I go - page 58: I like C. I really like her. As such, I'd like her to have a better reason for not throwing herself into MC's arms than her dead husband. Having a dead husband is fine, but she's developing as a reasonably detailed human. I'd prefer something more like: "And you want to know why I don't throw myself into your arms? They're hairy" Or something that doesn't imply that she'd just go for any guy if she wasn't mourning. You can keep all the same dialogue, and imply what you are currently stating, but I C deserves more self-respect than that - page 65: "the short, brown-skinned stopped." Missing a noun, and we've already noted the color of his skin. Suggest instead "the short man." Otherwise you're doing that thing that Island in the Sea of Time does where it just calls out otherness constantly.

Ah, we meet again, trash island! General It was an easy read, although the story info dump went a bit long, I felt like. I think it would have moved a bit quicker if A was actually stitching and so our protag had some pain or something to keep tension up. I remain concerned about the lack of any gender other than men in this world, and the Muslim comment needs work. yes, this. #iagreewithmandamon I was also confused by this It's like @Robinski and I share a brain! As I go - page two: it's feng shui - page four: I think technically you can't take words back, either - what in the heck is a 'good moderate muslim'? This needs expansion because it is... very concerning without context. Are Muslims not good or moderate by default (answer: yes, of course they are)?

Am I the only one who reads the title as 'ACK! DEAD HORSE!'? No? Okay then... General Reasonable pacing here and tension, although some of the descriptions ran a bit long. Loved the pet cemetery part! Still engaged, and C keeps me reading. Carry on! Was wondering about this, too. Everyone else has to give up their bones, but not this particular family? Why? As I go - page 41: concerned about Innas being in this, because we know he's an Aridori, and they'll suck your brain and whatnot - page 41: +1 for describing more than just POC skin tones! - page 42: fun trivia factoid- 'jahla' (very similar to your character's name) is Peruvian Spanish slang for 'already have that,' as might be used in say, a child's trading card game, or when hunting fungi in the Peruvian Amazon. - page 44: C is awesome. She only in to men? Asking for a friend - page 45: missing 'a' in your last sentence - page 46: you dropped skin tone descriptors here again. Consistency! - page 47: yeah so this pretend romance thing that probably will end up real romance is SO much better than the original and I find it very compelling - page 49: he wasn't sure if she was the wife or whatever, but then later on calls her the governess. Best to get rid of the governess part, I think. I like it better when he assumes mother or something akin. Assuming governess, noting the skin tones, leads to not great territory - page 51: sad we didn't get any description of what the marrow did taste like. Missed opportunity - page 52: LOL @ 'bonehead'

Alright, I stand corrected. Guess I'll offer fungus as a prize!