Harakeke
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Everything posted by Harakeke
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Ch Is For Chull (and Chicken)
Harakeke commented on KalynaAnne's gallery image in Stormlight Archive Art
These are amazing! Great work! -
Oh, that's fantastic -- those gaps had been bugging me! Nicely done! Any thoughts on the reconstructed word in line 5? Looks kinda' like "thurdmel" to me. Wut I Belev To Be Gatwas Ther But Thu [ ] [Thurdmel] [_dgr] [A____] m What I believe to be gateways there but the [ ] [third] [__] [____] [____]
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@Argent: More info at http://www.reddit.com/r/elianscript, including some tutorials, it looks like.
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I recently came across an interesting constructed writing system called the Elian Script. It strikes me as a non-symmetrical analog to the Alethi Glyphs. There are basic, blocky letter forms that can be stylized and then stacked on top of each other: Could be useful for teasing apart the structure of the glyphs. What happens if we use the Thaylen letters as the "blocky" form, transform them into "fluid" words as per the Elian rules, and then mirror them? Do we get anything resembling Alethi glyphs? I'm fairly swamped now, but I'll try to look into this when I get a chance.
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One thing I've been wondering: the palindromes in the original number sequence -- was that just a weird coincidence?
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"I am a stick."
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Why "hound"? It's odd, isn't it? Strange choice of words. Archaic.
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I don't think spren instinctively notice other spren any more than humans instinctively notice other humans -- which is to say that any advantage spren have when it comes to spotting other spren comes from with their general familiarity with each other ("Hey, that twisty shadow over there looks kinda' like a Cryptic..."), rather than from the ability to sense Investiture. Just like it's easier to spot a friend in a crowd than a random stranger, spren who've seen each other (or similar-looking types of spren) in Shadesmar might have an easier time recognizing each other in the physical realm. It seems possible that there could be certain kinds of spren that are attuned to the presence of other spren (sprenspren?), but I'd imagine they'd be more akin to single-metal Mistings than full Mistborn, since even sentient spren are so strongly tied to particular cognitive concepts (e.g. honor, lies, etc.).
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Hmm. perhaps. It just strike me as odd that the Screw You lines in the big N in Nahn would just *happen* to perfectly re-create the Thaylen letter N. If the differences between the Bridge 4 patch and tattoo are any indication, then the glyph stylization process can include not just the inclusion of random meaningless screw you lines (a la khokh & linil), but also the erasure of meaningful grapheme lines. The Scroll Stances page also has a couple instances of the full "Thaylen N", so I'm inclined to think the the 4-line version is the "complete" form, while the highprince names are abbreviated using just the bottom half of the letter, like so: \¯ Definitely worth considering the alternatives though.
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@Weiry -- You raise some good points, though I'm still inclined to stick with "Alethi glyphs" for the time being. I'm not sure that's necessarily a safe assumption, given the variety in how glyphs are drawn. For example, Linil can be written either like a tower or like a sword. The un-stylized form of the glyph doesn't necesssarly exist "in universe" -- it's just a construct I use to help decipher the glyphs. The interchangeability of Veden/Alethi glyphs could simply be because the final pictograms have the same shape -- even if the components graphemes are different. If that were the case, it could be part of why Jasnah found Shallan's calligraphic skills unimpressive. This implies to me that Alethi and Veden are distinct languages, not simply regional dialects of the same language. To use an analogy with real languages: if Alethi is Spanish, then Veden would be Portugese. These languages are mutually intelligible, but still use slightly different alphabets. (The reverse of this would be the example of Japanese kanji and Chinese hanzi -- in which the same written characters have different meanings.) To extend the analogy further: Thaylen would be something like Russian or Greek that uses a distinct, but fundamentally similar writing system. Azish and Selay would be something only distantly related, such as Arabic or Urdu. Again, I think it is unlikely for the Vorin kingdoms to use wildly different writing systems -- the simplest explanation is that there's just one set of glyphs for the men, and one alphabet for the women's script. However, so far we've only seen documents written in Alethi, so there may be slight differences in how the other languages are written. I'd rather not assume beyond what's present in the illustrations. Technically the most accurate thing to call the glyphs would be: "ideographs that we know are used in Alethkar, which are similar or identical to those used in Jah Keved and Kharbranth, may also be used in the other Vorin kingdoms of Natanatan and Emul, and bear a similarity to the writing system of Thaylenah, perhaps owing to a shared proto-language (i.e. the Dawnchant) extant across much or all Roshar prior to the Recreance." That's a bit of a mouthful, though. "Vorin glyphs" is overly broad, since it implies the same glyphs are/were also used in Emul and Natanatan -- which we don't know either way at this point. Just calling them "glyphs" seems too generic, so (in the absence of WoB on the matter), "Alethi glyphs" seems to me to be the most appropriate name for the time being.
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Not explicitly -- but there are strong indications that the pommel functions as the key to some sort of (Transformation?) fabrial that bonds the Blade to its Bearer. Shardblades essentially comprise a Stormlight-infused gemstone surrounded by metal, which is the same basic setup as other fabrials. Dead Shardblades only started doing the whole bonding/summoning thing once people started putting gemstones in the pommel. Until then they were just really really sharp. Since we know that fabrial gems contain trapped spren, it seems likely that the Shardblade pommel gems also contain live spren.
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@Weiry : You're probably right, but for the moment the only good examples of writing that we have access to (with the exception of the Thaylen Frostlands map) were written by Alethi. It's possible (and I'd say probable) that all the Vorin nations use the same graphemes -- or it could be something like English vs. Cyrrilic. I'm a bit hesitant to use the label Vorin at this point (even for the numbers), since that term has such religious connotations -- it'd be like saying "Christian Script". Kharbranth is such a melting pot that folks there could easily use Alethi alongside many other writing systems. Likewise, given Sigzil's unique education, I'd imagine he's at least passingly familiar with most of Roshar's languages. @Porridge: Perhaps -- although the sample size is really too small at this point to tell if there's a consistent method behind the variation. It would seem odd to have specific syllabic rules for just one letter though -- so I suspect the rule is "make the glyph look pretty" (aka "screw you"). For example, the letter G in Gesheh also gets truncated when you go from the stylized (patch) to super-stylized (tattoo) version. I could also just be wrong in what I'm parsing as N...
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Technically, fabrial gems capture and imprison specific types of spren, which in turn infuse the gem with Stormlight. Both fabrials and Nahel bonds allow humans to use Stormlight in to varying degrees -- the main difference seems to be that the Nahel bond is consensual on the part of the spren, while fabrials are not. This could explain why fabrials are not as powerful as the Surgebinding powers they mimic. I'd bet that the original Shardplate was powered by Stormlight (Investiture?) channeled directly through the Radiants' Nahel bonds, whereas the modern versions need gemstone "batteries" to bridge the gap. I suspect that modern Shardblades work similarly -- the screaming isn't just because you're holding a dead spren -- it's that you're holding a dead spren with a live spren trapped inside its corpse! For all we know, the same spren could have been stuck in there for what... thousands of years (since people first put gemstones in the pommels)?
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Made a few minor edits to the Thaylen Key to show that G is a soft G/J sound. I'm also pretty sure the second S is actually a Z. It only shows up at the end of the word "winds". All the other words like "rocks", "southern" etc. use the first S. Fixed the Thaylen/Veden typo in the Numerals Key and added the alternate number name order. Though now that I think about it, I'm not sure if we've actually seen Veden numbers written down anywhere, so it's possible (though I think unlikely) that they're written entirely differently... I made some substantial revisions to the glyph key after playing around with the Tattoo and Highprince glyphs some more. I think dropping the the vowels entirely makes more sense than the consonant-rotation system I was playing with earlier (see Sas vs. Sadeas). Likewise, I think H is also dropped, except for when it's baked into digraphs like "sh". "N"s are still somewhat problematic -- but it might be that they're just being truncated in the calligraphic forms (see dashed lines in Roion, Nahn, etc.).
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Artwork by Isaac Stewart: http://www.isaacstewart.com/ For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
Artwork by Isaac Stewart: http://www.isaacstewart.com/ For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
Navani's Notebook Translation (Minor WoR Spoilers)
Harakeke posted a gallery image in Stormlight Archive Art
Artwork by Isaac Stewart: http://www.isaacstewart.com/ Initial translation by cris34b: http://www.17thshard...tion/?hl=navani) For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
Alethi Glyph Translation Key (work in progress)
Harakeke posted a gallery image in Stormlight Archive Art
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation/ -
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation/ -
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6487-thaylen-and-alethi-glyph-translation/ -
Alethi Highprince Glyphs Translation (speculative)
Harakeke posted a gallery image in Stormlight Archive Art
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
For more information, please see: http://www.17thshard...ph-translation/ -
