Kingsdaughter613

Eryn entered the room where the priest waited. “I am Ganache,” she told him. “You?” ”Scroll,” the man answered. “And these?”

“You said want join me. Now are one of us. Always welcome.” Eryn paused as she reached the door. “Smart, staying back. Listening. This one could learn.” She glared briefly at Drae. Then she opened the door to the room where the priest awaited.

Eryn waited as Basil left. When he was gone she stood up, then nodded to the scholar. “This way,” she said, heading toward a small door near the back of the church. “Priest went here.”

I find the situation surrounding the palanquin driver fishy. The way it’s presented is clearly meant to imply a certain result, so why not have Shallan witness the crime? Why not have a third party witness it? Why is the criminal never confirmed? Maybe it’s because I’m reading Mistborn (again) and so far the person assumed to be X has yet to be X. For literally anything. Whether it’s the nobles blaming each other for Kelsier’s actions, Rashek being mistaken for Alendi, Vin blaming Straff for Cett’s assassins, and every person who isn’t actually the Hero of Ages, the person assumed to be the obvious culprit never is. And this IS a Mistborn group, so if Mistborn rules apply the person responsible will NOT be the person we think is responsible. I have no issue with the GBs trying to kill Jasnah. I would like to know what was going on with Lift, and whether or not Kell knew and/or was okay with it. Because I do feel that that is one truly evil thing they’ve done. The others are no better or worse than any other character. The only good thing you can say about the GBs in that situation is that Mraize ensured Lift would survive her capture, and that she didn’t appear to be harmed. And I wouldn’t be suspicious of Mraize seeming to have killed Gerrah (which does fit the GBs MO, though it’s odd they waited so long) except that I find it odd that TWICE now someone has witnessed what appears to be the AFTERMATH of a GB murder - but not the actual event. Once is incidence, twice is coincidence... And, as Batman says, there’s no such thing as coincidence. (This is on my list of questions for Brandon now. Twice we’ve seen the seeming aftermath of a GB murder (once in WoR and once in RoW), but we’ve never witnessed the actual crime. Are the Ghostbloods actually responsible for either murder?) I’m actually thinking the palanquin driver could have been killed by Liss (Chana?), who was trying to kill GB operatives on orders from Jasnah. If Liss IS Chana fire would make sense as part of her MO.

“Why choose,” Eryn asked curiously, hiding her irritation. “Basil tell us where to find if we want job. Talk to priest, then talk to Aaron. Then decide. If all say ja, then go to Steel Inn and tell Basil. Is not choice between.”

@AonEne new clue please?

Lies, putting us back to where we were when this page started...

45. He is definitely not allowed to smash it. 46. And he is not allowed to claim he tripped and broke it by accident. 47. Nor is he allowed to blame Kelsier for pushing him, causing him to trip and accidentally break the fourth wall, as that would imply he violated rule 39.

Or the original post edited.

No, Shallan assumes it was them. She first assumes she’s being threatened. Then she finds the driver dead and the palanquin burned (which doesn’t appear to be the GBs standard MO based on the other assassinations we’ve seen them attempt). Shallan does not witness the crime. There are no witnesses questioned. No evidence implicating the Ghostbloods is collected. The last we saw of Mraize, he was walking off in another direction. At no point afterwards do the Ghostbloods attempt to kill Shallan. And the crime doesn’t fit their MO. So there is really no reason to think the GBs are responsible except that Shallan assumes they are. But there is no real evidence for it. Brandon was very careful to point us at the Ghostbloods AND make sure we didn’t actually see the murder occur. There’s more than enough evidence for RL reasonable doubt, and this is a writer known for piling on very subtle foreshadowing. The whole situation feels off. TL;DR, the more I think about that situation, the less convinced I am that the GBs did it. It just doesn’t make sense based on everything we know about them, their boss, and the overall organization.

Oh, that’s a given. Mraize says as much early in RoW. They don’t want Odium winning and they were happy Dalinar could use Urithiru to fight the war. They’ve also consistently targeted the SoH, a group we know was involved in trying to return the Desolations. That said, they aren’t going to be open about it. It’s not their primary goal - and even if it is, that isn’t how they work. They’re spies and saboteurs and assassins. It’s much easier to do those kind of things if your enemy thinks you’re a neutral third party. They’re playing both sides, and are allowing both sides to know, but they are more aligned with the Radiants. Kelsier has no reason to want Odium free to assault Scadrial.

“I am Eryn Hearthseeker,” Eryn told him. He had not reacted to her motions, not even glanced at her hands. Not one of her master’s then, or too new to know. She glanced over the card, scanning for a hidden symbol. There was none. Whoever this Basil was, he was unlikely to serve the Sovereign - at least directly.

Eryn frowned thinking, one finger idly tracing a symbol on the edge of her seat. Behind the mask her eyes focused keenly on the strange man’s face, watching his reaction to it. ”Have other companions,” she said after a moment. “Must ask them first. If okay, will join.” She paused, then added, “came for job.”

Per the KR quiz, Dustbringer is the third possibility for Kell’s Order (behind Willshaper and Lightweaver). He gets negative points for Bondsmith and Truthwatcher (which I didn’t even know was possible until I put him through the quiz.) So I’d say those two are pretty unlikely.

Eryn shrugged. “Not stopping you.”

What’s interesting about this answer is that it also clarifies at least one question: Kelsier really did want to help the Skaa as part of his motivations. I adore Kelsier. Not because he’s a hero or a protagonist. But because he’s a trickster. I love tricksters. I keep comparing Kell to Silk (Belgariad, mostly heroic) and David Xanatos (Gargoyles, mostly villainous) for a reason. He fits perfectly into the same archetype they do. Anti-authoritarian to a dangerous degree. Somewhat sociopathic. Always needing to out smart the next guy. Acquires massive resources, but doesn’t actually care about it beyond ‘keeping score.’ Lives for the con and the challenge. Is inherently selfish by nature. And yet: is fiercely loyal to those he considers ‘his.’ (And that can be fairly extensive.) Has a personal code that he sticks to. Has lines he won’t cross. Genuinely does want to better things - for himself and others - but doesn’t care much for the moralities of the method used. Capable of genuine kindness and compassion, though it isn’t always evident if you don’t know him. That type of character fascinates me, because good or evil really depends on one’s perspective. Most of Brandon’s major protagonists would be heroes no matter where you put them. Kelsier - and, possibly, Jasnah - are exceptions. Kelsier is, like most tricksters, an almost perfect chaotic neutral. And that is such a fun type of character to play with.

Kell and his crew never read as Robin Hood to me. Honestly, Kelsier reminds me most strongly of Silk (Belgariad) and David Xanatos (Gargoyles). And the crew was after there own gain to start with; that changed with Kelsier’s leadership. Honestly, if we take the OG Mistborn crew: Dox, Ham, and Breeze are joining the Ghostbloods (two of the above may have been original members). Vin probably would have joined, at least as she was back in TFE. Spook almost certainly helped start the new crew. Marsh, Clubs and Saze are the only three we can really argue wouldn’t have joined as they were in TFE; Vin at the end wouldn’t have joined, but probably would be willing to work with Kelsier, if only to hold him back. Everyone else still joins. There’s a pretty high probability that Spook, Breeze, and Ham were part of the original Ghostbloods under Kelsier. The name probably comes from when they were trying to figure out how to bring him back to life. Gavilar was a member of the SoH, an enemy of the GBs. The GBs primary targets have been members of the SoH who, by and large, have been pretty despicable individuals. (Amaram, Ialai, etc.) And Lin Davar was being influenced by an unmade, so that makes him tricky to judge. (Gavilar may have been too, btw.) The GBs haven’t overtly threatened any protagonists family; Shallan has read certain things as threatening, but that doesn’t mean her interpretation is correct. They haven’t actually done anything we’ve seen to warrant that accusation. They didn’t threaten Shallan until she betrayed them, and they only tried assassinating Jasnah after she killed several of their number. Like the original crew, they are very loyal to one another. And I’m not judging an entire group by the actions of one person, especially when we know their boss is A: pretty hands off to start and B: stuck on another planet. On the other hand, Restares directly ordered Kaladin’s execution, but we’re supposed to like him. At least Mraize ensured Lift would be (relatively) safe by making her a unique and valuable commodity.

The priest nodded. “We can meet in the back room. I’ll go there now, and you can follow in a little while.” Eryn nodded. “Good.” She sat a moment longer, noting as the scholar entered the church and settled a few rows behind her. A smart woman; she would do well. Eryn was about ready to follow the priest when an unknown man approached her and Drae. “You come to us,” she said blankly. “Is you who wants, not I.”

Into the Woods was a combination. Rapunzel’s twins turning to dust is pretty eldritchy.

Into the Woods did it.

Several priests walked about the temple, some sending odd looks toward Eryn and Drae. She supposed they did make an odd pair. Certainly she, in her heavy coat and mask, stood out. A handful glanced at her ‘petition.’ Eventually, one of the priests approached her. “Are you alright,” he asked with concern, one finger lazily tracing a pattern against the edge of a chair. “Do you need anything?” Eryn smiled, her gloved hand tracing the same pattern. “Private matter. Talk elsewhere, ja? This one also,” she nodded at Drae, “wants join.”

Thaidakar terrifies you that much? Why is that? What has he done that you feel is so evil? We haven’t even seen him onscreen in Stormlight. (Nice answer there Brandon. Exact words. ‘We are unlikely to see Kelsier in Stormlight.’) The Ghostbloods always felt like the crew to me, which tipped me off back in WoR. This was an aluminum hat theory for a lot of us for a long time. I’m still reeling from actually being RIGHT, lol. And I find the idea of Kelsier as the Godfather (Vito, NOT Michael) of the Cosmere very fitting. It’s exactly the sort of thing he WOULD do. He’s a conartist and a thief. Of COURSE he’s doing this. Saze is choosing not intervene though, so I doubt he’s gone quite as far off the deep end as you think. Kell wouldn’t be okay with doing the kind of things Taravangian does, for example. (WoB) And, as was briefly noted in Bands, Kelsier Ascended to godhood for a bit, which some of us have known since HoA. I recommend reading the Mistborn annotations when you get the chance; they’re quite interesting. We do have a WoB on Kelsier being the Sovereign, btw. So that’s not really debatable. Kell’s return is important for Scadrial and he’ll be a major character in Era 3. But first we’ll need The Lost Metal... (nownownownownowNOW!)