Lewis Nethur

It would be a hack. Sanderson has stated that a person who knew what they were doing could achieve results other than becoming a mistborn/misting by using lerasium. Burning lerasium lets the user alter their own spiritweb and Connection; if you understood the exact underlying mechanism of how that change operates and is applied, you could make it change you in ways that would normally fall outside its design window of creating new mistborn. This much is confirmed. It's speculated that lerasium could be used to make someone an elantrian because becoming an elantrian seems to have something to do with Connection and specific aspects of a person's spiritweb. The plausibility can't be gauged well until we know more about elantrians and more about lerasium, however, it's a pretty good hypothesis for the time being. I don't know who first proposed the idea (it certainly wasn't me, so don't give me too much credit). It's possible that lerasium could be used to give someone access to many different magic systems other than the metallic arts. Recall, the power derived from a godmetal (or any metal for that matter) in allomancy, is not connected to or associated with the Shard that it came from in any directly meaningful way. The effects of allomantic metals are derived from the interaction of the Investiture with the planet and its people; Shards Invested on Scadrial can manipulate the systems to some degree, but they don't get to decide what each metal does. Preservation and Ruin didn't decide what lerasium and atium do, and what the metals do is not a reflection of them or their Intents. The most common example of this principle is that Ruin sucked at seeing the future while Preservation was pretty good at it, yet Ruin's Godmetal allowed people to see the future; Preservation disliked change whereas Ruin was all about it, but Preservation's Godmetal causes permanent profound changes in the user; these effects seem oddly reversed until you recognize that the effect of the metal isn't a reflection of its creator. Similarly, Harmony doesn't explode when submerged in water. I can probably find the WoB if there's serious interest; I remember them being kinda long though.

My take on that death rattle was that Moleach (the Unmade responsible for Death Rattles) was transmitting the thoughts/words of Nale. He's spent decades going around and murdering people who showed evidence of bonding a spren. Some of them, like Shallan, likely bonded spren at a very young age. Further, someone as old and powerful as Nale might very well consider all proto radiants to essentially be infants, regardless of their physical age. Basically we already know someone who's spent decades murdering children (and also adults) because they believed, apparently incorrectly, that it was saving the world from destruction. His name is Nalan.

Burning lerasium permanently changes the user's spiritweb; it's generally suspected that the primary consequence is that the user's Connection to Preservation (Harmony) is greatly increased. Sanderson has stated that Hoid would be unlikely to utilize magic systems that would give a specific shard additional power over him; this was said specifically with regards to hemalurgy, but it can be extrapolated that he would be cautious of bonding a spren or going too wild with lerasium. It might be far better for his purposes to have access to a few specific allomantic metals, which would presumably result in less Connection to Preservation, rather than all of them. As several people have pointed out, being able to burn gold, electrum, atium, cadmium, ect. wouldn't be that much of a benefit to someone as powerful as Hoid already is. Plus, he could then use the remainder of the bead to alter himself in other ways, potentially becoming an Elantrian, which he previously failed at.

Not explicitly, but Silence and Nazh are drawn in AU as having light hair. Further, Sebruki is noted as being distinct from Silence for having "darker" skin and hair. I think it's fair to assume for the time being that at least blond hair is relatively commonplace in Threnody. Iriali metallic gold is a stretch without more evidence.

@Extesian Roshar is teeming with Investiture compared to Taldain. It seems plausible that, if they originated from Taldain, the iriali's golden eyes could simply be a side effect of Roshars Investiture bleeding through them. It's been established that the Investiture infuses all people on Roshar to some extent, making them generally healthier and more resistant to disease, so this isn't even a stretch. Sand mastery seems to have problems manifesting in racially mixed offspring, which would explain why iriali hair is passed down, but, generally speaking, not their eyes, to people like Adolin and Renarin.

Compounding steel might shorten your life unfortunately. If you move at 100x speed, you should age at 100x speed. Just like if you had an unlimited supply of bendalloy you could probably kill yourself from old age in a week or two. (You might have lived 100 years, but for everyone around you, only a short time would've passed.) This is presumably why TLR didn't solve all of his problems by moving at 1000x speed. It would've forced him to compound exponentially more atium.

Self contained doesn't mean nothing is left unanswered and open ended. Zahels back story just won't ever be discussed in detail. Nightblood will probably be explained as a unique Godspren, loyal to the skybreakers but too young to have much knowledge of the Radiants. The members of the 17th shard and Hoid will be left virtually unexplored, just like in every single other Cosmere book... People often get hung up on the idea that the books overlap; but the truth is, the overlap is actually a separate story which only becomes clear once you've assembled all the separate pieces. If you analyze any individual subsection of the Cosmere, it is, in and of itself, a complete and satisfying whole. All stories have holes and mysteries left unexplained; tying more books in will never change that; just ask Wheel of Time and Song of Ice and Fire...lol.

To be "immoral" in the eyes of others is to maintain and practice a moral code that does not conform to generally accepted moral standards. Very few people ever consider themselves or their own actions immoral because that generally wouldn't make sense. Being unethical generally means not adhering to standards of conduct related to a specific group/role. Telling a significant-other that they don't look fat when they do is immoral because lying is a violation of a commonly accepted moral standard. It's ethical in the sense that significant others are expected to protect each other and act kindly towards one another to some degree. Murdering your neighbor and taking their stuff is immoral. It's also unethical in the sense that neighbors aren't supposed to murder each other. A doctor refusing to treat a patient who was injured while murdering and robbing their child is unethical, because they are disobeying the code of conduct governing how doctors are supposed to act towards patients. Many people would still consider it moral to withhold treatment however, or at least feel the situation was ambiguous enough to be unable to pass any legitimate moral judgement. It's a subtle issue, but it leads to a lot of confusion. Basically, a Radiant can absolutely be immoral. Shallan lies all the time. Kaladin bullies Gaz (and a few other people on occasion...) Lift steals stuff. Jasnah lured 3 muggers into attacking her and then brutally killed them when she could've just as easily captured them alive. They all occasionally act immorally. Like most people in the world they are flawed. They all occasionally act as unethical people. Like most people in the world, they occasionally prioritize their own interests and beliefs over those mandated by their position in society. But they all follow the ethics and rules that are specific to being Radiants of their specific orders, as outlined by their oaths, which allows them to continue. A Radiant can't be an unethical Radiant and remain a Radiant. Oh, they can do things that make them an unethical human being, lie, cheat, steal, ect. But they can't do anything that would make them an unethical Radiant, as doing so would violate their oaths and kill their spren. I'm not a doctor, so I can refuse to offer treatment to anybody and it isn't technically unethical, even if I know how to help them (though it could still be immoral). Similarly, there are no standards saying that edgedancers shouldn't commit petty theft, so stealing things doesn't make Lift an unethical Radiant. It just makes her an unethical person.

Thanks! On rereading, there are some really odd things going on in this vision. I'll excerpt and analyze the parts I thought were significant under spoiler tags for length: Of note is that Tanavast doesn't really say anything about "defeating" Odium...He just instructs Dalinar to rebuild the Radiants and fight. He mentions that Odium choosing a champion could work out nicely, but doesn't really emphasize or communicate any way of permanently dealing with Odium... The differences in clothing, appearance, and manner of speaking leads me to believe that the shadowy figure whom Dalinar meets at the beginning of the vision is actually Odium, not Tanavast as he assumes. The shadowy figure corroborates Tanavast's message that uniting the Radiants is what Dalinar should do, but says nothing about fighting. I can only assume that Odium has been attempting to corrupt the core message of each vision in some way, possibly by emphasizing uniting the people of Roshar over fighting and trapping Odium. The whole how and why of this is unclear to me. My tentative conclusion: Odium is trying to turn the people of Roshar against each other by encouraging Mr. T (through Moleach), Dalinar (through the stormfather), and probably several other key faction leaders to individually attempt to "unify" the world, leading to widespread strife and civil war, making his invasion easier. For some reason, destroying Roshar is the easiest way for him to get what he wants, which is, presumably, to recover all of his Investiture (including Gavilar's sphere I guess) and leave the system, and maybe kill Cultivation if he has time. Tanavast never intended to stop the cycle of desolations, since, as long as mankind can hold out against the cycle, Odium can't leave, which is important to Tanavast. This conclusion has serious implications for the cause of the Recreance, but I'll leave that to a separate thread if I find the time.

I think Moash is a bit naive and got sucked in by Graves' charm. Considering that while Graves was working to kill Elhokar, other Diagramists were working to kill Dalinar, I'd guess that Graves' stated intention of saving Alethkar from an incompetent king and bringing about the rule of integrity and strength through Dalinar is, at best, deliberately misleading, and, more likely, an outright lie. I assume he's actually trying to unite as much of Alethkar under Mr. T as possible, or failing that, splinter the kingdom so Mr. T can pick up as many of the pieces as he can later. That said, I like all of the Diagramists we've seen so far and how they contribute to the narrative. They believe, with fairly good reason in my opinion, that what they're doing is necessary for the survival of mankind. The fact that they might be wrong and consistently do evil things makes them unethical, dishonorable, and loathsome, but many of them actually display evidence of strong moral fiber and high intelligence; some of their moral codes are bizarre, but that doesn't make them invalid. They represent a powerful, and realistic, contrast to the Radiants. Where the Radiants are magically bound by rules and codes, the Diagramists are willing to do whatever they have to in order to ensure victory, which is reminiscent of real-life nations for whom "honor" is much less valuable than "survival." Not every battle can be won through "leading by example," "being honorable," and "staying true to your self." Whether the battle against Odium is one of these times remains to be seen. It's possible the Diagramists are wrong and what they're doing is not only evil, but ultimately counter-productive, but, right or wrong, they make for an interesting faction.

@Calderis Didn't see that you had already begun explaining before I posted. Have an upvote for speed lol. @teknopathetic what you're saying is possible I'll grant you. I'm resistant to it because the "winning by the skin of their teeth" thing seems to me to be almost as cliche as the "deus ex machina last chapter reveal" thing. I'd like to see something between Spoilers for WoT and Mistborn: I've reread your posts and there's more I agree with than disagree with. Can you clarify which vision you're predicting reveals the end of the series? I'd like to reread it before I weigh in any further. Edit: added spoiler tag just in case

Exactly, that's why I think Odium surviving is less likely. The plot structure is already pretty dense; squeezing in enough build up and revelations about other planets to make an exodus seem plausible, without making it feel like the heros just gave up, might be impractical. As an aside, I'd argue that that scenario would be more similar to the conclusion of HoA than splintering Odium, which would actually be a new type of conclusion for Cosmere books. In HoA humanity was almost completely wiped out and almost all the heroes died. Hopefully this isn't completely repeated in stormlight...

@red032 Well, that's what Sanderson has stated as his goal and, almost more importantly, what his publishers and editors, by default, like to insist on. I don't have access to hard statistics, but I would wager that most people who read stormlight archive are more-or-less unaware of the Cosmere at large. I'm really interested in seeing how Nightblood's presence on Roshar is explained without making any outright references to Nalthis and Awakening, but...for the time being, the first 5 Stormlight books (and maybe all 10) are supposed to form a coherent and self-contained story that a reader can enjoy and understand without any supplementary material. None of this is ironclad, as Sanderson can always just change his mind and start tying in other books like crazy, but if the story remains self-contained, some basic rules should be obeyed: The story's ultimate conclusion has to make sense without referencing outside material: Odium getting free of Roshar would be unsatisfying because non-Cosmere aware fans would probably be confused about why he was in Greater Roshar to begin with and why Tanavast (apparently) wanted to keep him there. The whole cycle of desolations would feel like a waste of time and life. Humanity on Roshar can't be wiped out. The planet can be destroyed, the parshendi could conceivably be extincted, and any number of the main characters can be killed off, but some remainder of the population has to be saved in some capacity. Having the good guys lose completely, evil triumph, and mankind annihilated is, in general, just bad writing. We didn't see Aona and Skai die because it didn't make for a "good" story; The bad guy broke in, burned everything to the ground, spit on the ashes, and left. The cycle of desolations probably has to end: The desolations are presented as a huge problem in the eyes of the reader; concluding the series without establishing some way that they can be stopped, or at least mitigated greatly, will feel empty. Wheel of Time Spoilers: Odium probably has to die: If someone doesn't kill him, he'll keep fighting. Wounding or sealing him away would probably feel like an unnecessary cop-out. If he just "leaves the system," readers who aren't Cosmere-fans might be left confused about why he was there in the first place, making the whole series seem pointless and arbitrary. The only plausible scenario I can think of that would allow Odium to escape would be if the Roshar (the planet) ends up destroyed, and human beings on Roshar make an exodus to another planet in the system...Anyway, I guess this is more of an opinion piece at this point, apologies.

I'm gonna change things up here by proposing a complimentary two-person twinborn team: Person 1: Soother + feruchemic steel Person 2: Rioter + Feruchemic Zinc (double zinc) Zinc compounder acts as the brains of the operation, keeps partner motivated, and enrages/confuses enemies when under fire. Steel-running soother spearheads plans of Double-Zinc mastermind, dampens negative emotions of Zinc user to further augment thought processes, and attacks enemy morale when under fire.

How to absorb all the Dor and become a God: An Elantrian could theoretically draw an aon equation for ascension I would think. With the caveats that it would probably be massive and intricate, a single mistake might destroy the planet, and it would likely incorporate intense alterations to the user's spirit web, including their Identity and Connection, meaning it might deeply change the core of their being. My guess is that's ultimately how the IRE made their device to steal Preservation...should work for other shards that lack a holder I would think.

@Lord Maelstrom When Ruin was imprisoned, he wasn't "separated" from his power, Preservation just locked him into a pseudo-infinite loop type of system where everything Ruin tried to do with his power was automatically opposed by Preservation's power. If Ruin tried to do anything much more significant than fiddle with individual copperminds or talk to individual crazy people/hemalurgists, a wall of Preservation's Investiture would be flung between him and his target, countering him. I'm not counting the atium that was literally ripped off of him and hidden, which I don't think was what you were referencing. Kelsier experienced this phenomenon as well because when he took up Preservation, Ruin was, by this point, well-versed in how the two shards' Investiture could block each other, and Ruin was significantly more powerful than Kelsier. This has something to do with the fact that Kelsier didn't exist at all in the Physical Realm and was a cognitive shadow. I can't remember the exact realmatic explanation, but for some reason being dead made Kelsier an extra weak shard-holder. His relatively low Connection to Preservation may have also been a factor, can't remember off the top of my head. As to your overarching idea of reconstructing D&D from the Dor, I think the theory has some merit, but it has to struggle against a fundamental aspect of Investiture: The natural tendency to spread out and evolve. Reassembling D&D would presumably drain/destroy the Dor, which is by far the most interesting thing about Sel and the reason it has so many interesting magic systems. Any native of Sel who was capable of such a feat, possessing the necessary Connections would, during their ascension, have to face a terrible truth: Absorbing D&D would fundamentally change how magic works across Sel in unpredictable ways and almost certainly devastate all levels of human society around the planet. The first act of the Shard of Benevolence would therefore have to be to one of Disdain and/or Callousness (which would be like Preservation burning ants with a magnifying glass...) I suspect that Odium was comfortable leaving the Investiture on Sel in its current state because, after due consideration, he believed it could not be reassembled back into a Shard short of extraordinary intervention by forces outside the system. I think of it like this: The shards have been splintered, placing them at a lower and more stable state of potential. Recombining them would require a massive influx of energy. A good analogy would be a mountain that had been exploded into gravel and spread uniformly over the surface of a continent. Strictly speaking, the kinetic energy released from the mountain's detonation is exactly enough to reconstruct it back into a mountain, however, without an additional investment of energy from an outside source, reconstructing the mountain is impractical beyond reason and arguably impossible; IE: some of the energy from the explosion will be so transformed from its initial state that it is easier to replace than to recover.

Something to consider: If harmonium could grant people feruchemy, southerners would probably have found out by now, and metalborn probably wouldn't be so rare among them. The idea that the southerner's struggle to survive and their lack of access to the metallic arts led them to create a mechanical means of hacking the magic system is a pretty huge plot point that would be thoroughly undercut if they were unknowingly sitting on a stash of feruchemy-granting metal...

There are loads of reasons for the aluminum skeleton: Aluminum is about one-third the density of steel. A steel skeleton would be mega-inconvenient as it would slow her down immensely Detached aluminum limbs can't be pushed away allomantically Aluminum is biologically inert; pretty much the only metals that would be better from a biochemistry perspective are titanium, surgical-grade stainless steel, and gold Kandra's bodies are different from people's, but a massive quantity of corroding metal probably isn't good for them, so most metals are unsuitable for building a skeleton, even if you don't consider weight And my favorite: Surrounding her "brain" with aluminum may prevent allomancers from possessing her.

@Extesian I'd swear you are able to compound copper the way you find those so quickly. That or a sentient computer, I'm on the fence. But yes, that is, once again, precisely what I was thinking of. You are a God. Thank you.

@Storming Radiant I can't find the WoB at the moment, but yes. He conceded, however, that some of the metals wouldn't be particularly useful if compounded.

Well, allomancy and feruchemy are inherited genetically, so if someone knows whether or not they had metalborn within the last few generations of their family, they'll definitely want to get themselves tested. There are a lot of heavy metals in the basin, so it's feasible for allomancers to discover their powers from their drinking water. The Terris keep awesome family records and track bloodlines, so my impression has been that they find and test the vast majority of potential ferrings. It wouldn't shock me if they had some kind of coming of age ceremony where they allowed a potential initiate to touch a small sample of each metal and see if they could store into it, or, alternatively, if they passed children metal minds to see if they could sense the Investiture (Feruchemists can't normally tap each other's metalminds, but they can feel the stored attribute). I suspect that there are a small number of ferrings who either go untested, or live significant periods of time (maybe their whole lives) without discovering their powers because they don't know the identity of one or more of their parents/grandparents. Granted, I wouldn't be shocked if the Elendel government provided testing as a free service, considering how easy it is to check for. Recall, Harmony changed snapping in some as yet unrevealed way to make it much less traumatic.

The Cognitive Realm can, to some extent, be molded by the perception of humans in the physical realm. I think it's a safe bet that northern and southern Scadrians are culturally distinct and isolated enough that they would almost certainly have had different effects on how the Investiture molded itself if it had been crammed into the CR instead of picked up by Sazed. Whether this would have culminated in geography based systems of magic, is somewhat arguable, but I suspect that @Calderis is probably right that allomancy would be affected the most immediately and obviously.

As is the case with Lopen and Kaladin, the person would probably still perceive the arm as a part of themselves. This alone isn't enough to allow them to use the arm, but I think it could leave the door open for hemalurgy still working. After all, the spike would still be touching your active circulatory system. If the spike is still in contact with your living flowing blood, it should continue to confer its attribute. If the spike was in your ear that had been severed by a shardblade, it might quit working though... Metalminds can be used instinctively, like how gold can be tapped even if one's head is chopped clean off. I would argue that a metalmind on a limb severed by a shardblade might be able to be used by the body as a last ditch survival instinct, but I'm doubtful it could be used consciously.

Feruchemy can be used instinctively; BoM spoilers: Meaning that theoretically, if TLR had a filled atiummind on his person, he could tap it in his sleep. Since his body would be aware that not tapping it would kill him, it would treat tapping the atiummind as a natural survival instinct. That said, I can't imagine TLR sleeping as this would allow him to be vulnerable and un-Godlike. Near the end he actually seemed to believe he was a God and should be treated as such...

As has been stated, the power of burning pewter and duralumin simultaneously is a function of how much pewter one has available. I suspect that, just like how a leecher can't remove another allomancer's reserves instantaneously, duralumin doesn't burn your reserves instantaneously, it just burns them as fast as is possible. If you swallowed 1 kg of pewter, you could probably sustain burning pewter and duralumin for an appreciable amount of time, (at least a couple seconds) as opposed to it being burned up in the blink of an eye; during this time you would probably be as strong as is possible through pewter allomancy. I believe that the greatest feat of strength we see on screen is Vin not suffering blindness or organ damage while steel pushing 20+ men and their horses and: She blasts about 22,000 kg of mass away from herself at a rate of at least a few meters per second. The way the push is described, she doesn't have time to react to it, IE: she can't stop burning duralumin, before it's done and her reserves are depleted. This means it probably happens over the course of approximately 0.1 seconds or less. Momentum is generally conserved with steel pushing as near as I can tell. I don't want to get into a bunch of vector math, so let's say that, on average, 1/2 of each horsemen's change in velocity is directed directly away from Vin and in-line with the center of mass of the group of horsemen, which seems pretty conservative whether they were in a line formation and chasing her, or some chaotic blob. Let's say that immediately after the push ends she's accelerated them to 2 m/s, which is the slowest I can imagine as still being described as "thrown like leaves in the wind." Her change in momentum is: 1/2 * 2 m/s * 22,000 kg = 22,000 kg m/s Vin started at rest and let's suppose she is wearing some heavy clothes and has a total mass of 70 kg. Her velocity after her duralumin push is: 22,000 kg m/s / 70 kg = 310 m/s (a bit below the speed of sound, so we're in the realm of plausibility because no sonic boom was reported) Her acceleration during her push was: 310 m/s / 0.1 s = 3,100 m/s/s or about 315 g's Given that she was facing her targets (had she been facing away from them her body would have been able to tolerate the acceleration much easier), had she not been burning pewter at all, the maximum acceleration she could reasonably expect to withstand without a serious risk of permanent injury would be 20 g's. Let's suppose that similar to pewter's effect on muscle strength, it would normally double-triple a person's resistance to rapid accelerations; this is harder to justify, but we need some kind of baseline. That would increase her expected maximum reliably tolerable horizontal back-facing acceleration to 40-60 g's. If she had been at the limit of what she could tolerate, she would have been hurt and disoriented after her push, but she wasn't, and in fact was cognizant enough to drink another vial of metals and land more-or-less gracefully and return to sprinting back to Luthadel. This implies she probably could've theoretically handled 2+x more force without suffering organ damage, with the caveat that doing so might've left her too hurt and disoriented to consume more metal and properly brace for landing. So, just how strong is a person burning duralumin and pewter? Well, Vin appears to have reached a strength of somewhere in the neighborhood of 20x the limit of a normal human. This actually puts her in range of being able to pick up and toss a car, with the understanding that she would have to do it very quickly or have swallowed a lot of pewter. TLDR; Buring duralumin and pewter, you should finally be able to throw a car. Lower-bound for how much duralumin enhances a metal's power is approximately 10x