Lewis Nethur

See link below for what I believe is the complete collection. Sanderson asks that fans refrain from reading and sharing these as he fears that these works could improperly color people's perceptions about certain elements of the Cosmere. However, I enjoyed them not for their entertainment value (relatively speaking, they're quite mediocre) but to get a sense of the evolution of the Cosmere and Sanderson's writing style, and it's in that spirit that I share them.

Hmm, I see your point, but I think the difference is simply that the bones aren't alive. The kandra is basically just wrapped around the bones (or metal/wood/crystal...). An analogous situation would be, if a soldier's hand that is gripping a sword hilt is cut by a shardblade, is the hilt cut? My guess would be yes, as it doesn't have enough spiritual presence to resist being physically cut by a shardblade. I suppose I could see it going either way, but that's where my heads at on the issue.

The shardblade would physically cut the kandras bones though, so they aren't totally immune. Further, their brains can be damaged, so getting cut in the wrong place could probably wipe out large sections of their memories and personality...

The point I was trying to make is that you couldn't compound and tap steel constantly, like health/strength/Fortune/ect, without serious consequences. Moving twice as fast all the time would be pretty cool, but it would be inadvisable. You don't need to be able to compound steel to be able to do the feats you describe, Bleeder couldn't compound and she pretty much did exactly what you described. In the case where you aren't compounding steel, the end-neutral nature of feruchemy prevents you from suffering any ill effects on average.

Hemalurgy is still end-negative, meaning that Hemalurgic decay still exists. This is mentioned on several occasions by Kandra in era 2 in the context that their cache of spikes barely possess any remaining potency (because they've been outside of bodies for 300 years). People with feruchemic powers granted to them by hemalurgy are less efficient at storing/tapping attributes than people born with the abilities naturally. They have to store/tap more of each attribute to get the same effect as a normal feruchemist/ferring. Hemalurgic decay is common to all powers/attributes stolen with hemalurgic spikes, but, as you pointed out, the loss of Investiture is relatively negligible if they are installed into their host quickly after being created. EDIT: Dang...ninja'd...

I've had similar thoughts as well, but given that the BoM didn't achieve sentience after several centuries despite being super Invested, it might be kinda weird if other metalminds became self aware. I don't think it's totally out of the question, but feruchemy alone seems like it might not be enough. Maybe an atium spike Invested with mental fortitude from dozens of people and filled to bursting with youth would work? It would probably help it evolve its cognitive Identity if a lot of people worshipped it as well...

Atium mistings did require snapping. It doesn't occur onscreen, but Brandon confirmed that new initiates into the ministry of steel were taken through a series of rituals and ceremonies that would 1) make sure they snapped if they could, and 2) tested them for the ability to burn atium. After beating the initiates and force feeding them metal, I believe the last part of the ceremony was inducing vomiting to get the atium back...kinda rough, but TLR knew that atium mistings were an important part of Preservations plan.

Sigh. Dumb autocorrect. Yes, excise, meaning to cut off or extract. It's also a type of tax let the speculation commence!

Alik suggests that the process requires "Excisors," which they were taught about (or gifted) by The Sovereign. It's commonly speculated that excisors are related to hemalurgy given the linguistic similarity to the word "execise," which in this context would refer to removing something from a soul. But until Lost Metal comes out all questions about the excisors are RAFO'd.

Kelsier could touch and be touched by Nazh, so I would posit that he could stab and be stabbed by anyone (which of course would allow him to be spiked). The underlying realmatic explanation for this would be that he believe he could be spiked, so he could be spiked; IE; he doesn't think of himself as dead at the spiritual level, so he isn't. If you know of a specific WoB relating to spiking entities in the CR that are sapient while lacking Connection to the PR that would be extremely enlightening, please tag me if you find it. Thanks!

@Weltall I hadn't seen that WoB before; Thank you. People like you (who correct me when I'm mistaken) are a big part of why I still feel compelled to post on this board after all these years. My previous understanding was that the "code-monkey" was going to be era-4 in the sci-fi/distant future era, which is obviously incorrect. #Respect

My favorite theory is that Spook used a perpendicularity to travel to the Cognitive Realm with a hemalurgic spike, then spiked Kelsier with something (Feruchemic Connection?) to allow Kelsier to reestablish his Connection to the Physical Realm, and then he was simply able to use a perpendicularity to travel back to the Physical Realm. This would allow him to get around the problem of making or stealing a new body. Recall, Kelsier specifically mentions and takes note of the fact that Nazh and Hoid were able to physically touch him in the Cognitive Realm, as if he were as real and solid as they were.

@OneNastyChull Sorry, the idea that Spook is still alive is highly speculative. He lived to be approximately 120 years old, then stepped down, as ruler of the basin. That is...absurdly old...Kelsier enticed Spook into helping him investigate hemalurgy at the end of SH by mentioning that they could achieve immortality, so I subscribe to the belief that they're both still alive, but this is by absolutely no means confirmed. My primary argument against the idea that Harmony imbues people with 2 parts Preservation and 1 part Ruin Investiture is that Ruin and Preservation no longer exist. There is only Harmony. If Harmony dies, he drops one Shard. I don't think the source of the Investiture would have an affect on people's personalities. After all, it's all just Investiture; if I take water from a natural spring and water condensed from the air, it's all just water. Harmony doesn't confer his Intent to everything and everyone he touches. I suppose I should stop myself before I try to delve too far into the realm of the theoretical; there are many sharders more qualified than I am who can weigh in better. I subscribe to the belief that a population increase wouldn't unbalance Harmony...but...there are very intelligent people whom I know would disagree with me on this point.

True, my theory of how steel operates hasn't been specifically confirmed by Brandon that I'm aware of, but I think it makes a lot of sense from a conservation perspective. Feruchemy gives protection from being directly damaged by using the power, but it doesn't protect you from arbitrary external forces. If you tap too much weight and fall through the floor and get impaled, that's not a flaw in the magic system, that's user-error. If you flare bendalloy to extend a week into a year, your extra grey hairs are your own fault. Bear in mind, the aging thing would only be a problem for steel compounders, normal steel-runners wouldn't age any faster than a normal person overall.

I'll concede that aging is something steelrunning could protect against. However, if I perform 16 hours of hard labor in 5 minutes using steel running, I should be tired, sweaty, and hungry. This would mean that my body has digested food, released energy, and divided a bunch of cells, which means I must have physically aged 16 hours. Tapping steel doesn't make you stronger or give you additional chemical energy, it's actually very similar in operation to time bubbles (minus the bubble).

Maybe, but allomancy doesn't. If someone stores half of their speed for 8 hours, they can effectively perform 4 man-hours of work during that time. Then they can tap speed to go (approximately) 50% faster for 8 hours and effectively perform 12 man-hours of work in that 8 hours, for a total of 16 man-hours in 16 hours. The tricky part is, while storing speed, all of your biological processes slow down. A consequence of this is that it would inadvertently make you age slower. To balance this, tapping speed should make you age faster, otherwise the reaction wouldn't be end-neutral. Consider this: If someone taps steel and moves at 8x speed to allow them to perform 8 man-hours of work in 1 hour, they ought to be as tired and hungry as if they had just worked for 8 hours straight, because from their perspective, that's exactly what they did. For them 8 hours have passed while for everyone else only 1 hour has passed. This should result in 8 hours of aging. If you take this to the extreme where you move at 1,000x speed, the relationship should remain the same.

Something to keep in mind is that Harmony doesn't hold two separate Shards, he holds one well blended Shard. When Harmony picked up Ruin and Preservation, the two shards were equal in power; a chunk of Preservation was tied up in scadrians, and an equal chunk of Ruin was tied up in atium. Following his ascension, it is my belief that scadrians are now born with a single small piece of Harmony, rather than a small piece of Preservation and a smaller piece of Ruin. There's still some argument over this point; if I'm right, then no, a massive population increase would not cause an imbalance in Harmony's Investiture. If I'm wrong, then yes, it could. Sazed was able to pick up the two Shards because he possessed suitable Connection with them. If the composition of his power changes significantly, it could greatly accelerate the rate at which the power consumes, warps, and erodes his personality; this is actually why Odium refuses to pick up the Shards he kills. It's been hypothesized in-book that the Investiture released by burned atium takes approximately 300 years to coalesce back at its source (it hasn't been established if the character who said this was correct, so it technically remains a hypothesis); since Harmony shut down the Pits, the Investiture released from the atium burned in the final battle before Harmony's ascension should have finished returning to him by era 2. Picking up this Investiture would cause him an imbalance if he held onto it, which is where pagerunner's theories on harmonium come into play. However, during this time, all (minus like 3ish people) of the scadrians born before Harmony's ascension should have died, allowing their excess Preservation-Investiture to return to Harmony. The question boils down to: Is Harmony able to unblend his Investiture to give each newborn scadrian more Preservation than Ruin, and if so, is he still doing it, or does each newborn scadrian just get a single piece of his blended Investiture (which, by my reckoning, ought to be almost equal parts Ruin and Preservation)? Since allomancy is now powered by Harmony's Investiture rather than Preservation's, I argue that the souls of scadrians are now composed of Harmony's Investiture, rather than Preservation's and Ruins separate Investiture. Note: Some of Leras' (Preservation's) original Investiture should still be tied up in The pieces of the souls of pre-Catacendre scadrians stored in hemalurgic spikes The metalminds TLR stored compounded attributes in (they've almost certainly been melted-down/reworked, but some/all of the Investiture, which he got from the body of Preservation, should still be feruchemically stored in the metal. It might be insignificant, but it also might not be) Kelsier, Marsh, and possibly Spook and a handful of worldhoppers (their souls) Any splinters that Kelsier wasn't able to gobble up when Ruin was shattering Preservation (It seems like he got them all, but you never know) Meaning, Harmony should be slightly imbalanced towards Ruin these days.

Agreed. I think anyone who actually has information that would be helpful for answering your question is probably bound under contract to remain silent. There are several WoB suggesting that an early 20th century setting involving an FBI-style team of mistings hunting a mentally unstable mistborn (the first one to be born in hundreds of years) would be the basis of era 3, but those are all at least 3 years old to the best of my knowledge. (meaning that they are not necessarily an accurate representation of current or future plans) I think we'll have to settle for conjecture and speculation for the next 1-3 years... If it helps, there has never been mention of an era 5, so, unless there is a complete restructuring of outlines (which, unfortunately, is possible) a space-opera, science-fiction, distant future-era Mistborn trilogy should not be any closer or further away regardless of whether he chooses to do an early or late 20th century series.

If a steel/iron twinborn is a crasher, I would describe this combo as a wrecking-ball. Is there a name for the meteor that killed the dinosaurs? Because this would be some biology eradicating nonsense. Lookout Ender, there's a whole new xenocide, and his name is Pewter/Iron.

As long as you survive it really wouldn't matter; just get a nicroburst friend and swallow a few ounces of pewter (several dozens times what we usually see pewterarms ingest), which enhances healing. Fun fact, pewter is crazy cheap.

I'd upvote this twice, if I could. Check that; I would upvote this ten times if I could. You've given me a new favorite twinborn combo, and that isn't a statement I make lightly. Excellent creativity and imagery, GG.

I'm now absolutely convinced that this ought to be my question to Brandon. I just need to work out how best to concisely and cogently word it...The implications aren't that far reaching one way or the other as I see it, but this is now bugging the heck out of me.

@Onceler I'm inclined to agree with @Kurkistan that Zane was, at least in some capacity, "insane." Whether his mental illness came from intervention by ruin, abuse/neglect as a child, natural chemical imbalance, or some superposition of all 3, is beside the point. He found himself wanting to obey Ruin's commands to kill everyone he looked at, found pleasure in mutilating himself, and attempted to murder Vin when she wouldn't run away with him... Is it possible that Zane's Connection to Ruin could've allowed Ruin to hear Zane's thoughts? Sort of like (SH spoilers): If Ruin couldn't hear Zane and wasn't trying to pretend to be able to hear him, the line "Then use that strength to kill him!" doesn't make any sense to me. I think it would've been more along the lines, "Use your strength to kill him!" If Ruin could hear Zane that's super weird and deserves explanation. If Ruin couldn't hear Zane and was just pretending, either because he's clever or was actually playing both sides of the conversation...I guess I'll buy it simply because we would have to, but I find this explanation unsatisfying for the time being. Thanks for weighing in though; I've been meaning to order myself a hardcover copy of Mistborn. If I ever get around to it and can get an answer I'll update this thread.

I was skimming WoA looking for a specific reference, when I noticed the following exchange between Ruin and Zane: This occurs while Zane is sitting across from Straff Venture and reporting on his success in getting Vin to trust him. It really seems like Ruin hears and responds to Zane's thoughts...I'm finding it difficult to believe that Ruin is so intuitive that he can not only precisely predict Zane's exact internal monologue, but also the timing. I guess it could be argued that Ruin had inserted both the command to kill, as well as Zane's retort, but that seems like an inelegant explanation... Has anyone come across or discussed this before? Is there an explanation other than Ruin inexplicably was able to hear a person's thoughts even though that's supposed to be Preservation's thing?

That's an excellent point. We also have it that the pain caused by the spikes "responds" to intense emotions. I've always assumed that the pain increases in intensity in response to intense emotions, however, this has never been clarified as far as I'm aware. I'd guess that the pain is a reaction to the effect of the damage caused by the spikes, and therefore, should only be noticeable once the damage is significant. This is speculation, but I'm guessing 4 spikes in a human, which is generally enough to allow Ruin/Harmony to possess someone, is the threshold for which the pain becomes noticeable and persistent. My next guess would be that the pain starts once a person has enough spikes that they require the "linchpin" spike in their spine to keep their spiritweb from being ripped apart by the strain on their soul (between 5 and 11 spikes).