Govir

Also, prior to Oathbringer's release, we got word from Sanderson that Vivenna would be making an appearance. So people were on the lookout for characters that could be tied back to her. I was looking for her, and only realized it when Kaladin and Azure were on the wall when their section was attacked. No idea why it clicked into place at that point (literally right when they nodded to each other before darting off in opposite directions to fight).

I like this theory. Would explain why Vivenna is chasing after Nightblood, and the warning she told Kaladin and Adolin to give to Vasher about her. In short, Nightblood did something and the Nalthis people want him destroyed. Vasher takes NB to Roshar to prevent this. Vivenna comes following after (or chasing, and only just now got to Roshar, since I'm pretty sure Vasher has been on Roshar for much longer than Vivenna).

While I agree with you, remember that when Venli says "a long time", that is 6 years after the assassination. The other thing to consider is who actually guided them to Szeth? Why would Ulim (who wants the "gods" to return) guide them to Szeth (who ultimately delayed the return)? The only reason I could think of is if Ulim and company thought that Szeth could be used to hasten the return, but the plan didn't work as they thought it would. But we haven't seen any hints of that. On another note, I have a question about the gems in general. The one we see at the end of OB that traps the thrill is fairly large (the size of a basketball I think? Maybe a bit smaller like a softball?). Does the size of the gem matter when trapping a spren? If so, the size I picture for the Black Sphere (a marble at most) is much too small to hold an Unmade. The counter to this is that an Unmade / Spren can be captured in any size gem (i.e. it's not so much a capturing, as an anchoring), and the size of the gem only determines how much Stormlight it can hold.

Thanks for the quote @ccstat. But based on that, the fabrial part only keeps the metal from warping, i.e. it doesn't help the bow be used in anyway.

This is a good theory, but remember that the shardbows aren't actually like Shardblades (i.e. dead spren). A shardbow is just a very large bow that is specifically designed to be used by a person wearing Shardplate (similar to how a shardhammer is just a very large hammer). I'm going to have to double check this, but I never got the picture that a fabrial was involved. My understanding is that it's just a really big bow, designed to be used by a person in Shardplate. If they were a fabrial, I'd imagine they could be used by anyone, if the weapon were properly infused. Coppermind.net agrees with you though, and says the source is Chapter 12 of tWoK.

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Nuatoma Basically Horneater Brightlords. Edit: From this explanation I'm picturing something like Feudalism (given that I have no formal understanding of Feudalism. I only know what I've seen in fiction). Specifically, Japanese feudalism, and clan based leadership. (Which I guess is basically what the 10 High princedoms of Alethkar are too)

I seem to remember reading a WoB that talked about how it's not a *broken* soul that allows the various magic systems, but an *expanded* soul. An easy way to get an expanded soul is to first break it. (And now, I'm thinking this was actually an annotation. Are those in the Arcanum?)

My issue with Moash's vengeance is that it is misplaced. My understanding of his grandparents death is that Roshone convinced Elhokar that Moash's grandparents had done something wrong, Elhokar made a passing judgement that put the grandparents in prison / waiting cells where they died. Elhokar definitely didn't help Moash's grandparents, but there are mitigating factors in the "Roshone affair."

Nope not weird. I loved the scene, but hated the action (if that makes sense). I hate the character of Moash, not the story of Moash.

I can get behind this. Elhokar wasn't redeemed yet. He was beginning his journey to be redeemed, and got cut down before he could complete it. And yeah, @Ookla, the Incalculable definitely put into words my opinion on Elhokar's death better than I could (not being a story writer myself). I definitely got the feeling that the point of us liking Elhokar more was specifically so we'd kind of care when he died. (Side note: I remembered about half way through this part that a main character was going to die. And I figured It was either Elhokar or Adolin. Elhokar pained me, but Adolin would have destroyed me; because it would have destroyed Shallan).

Man, every time someone brings up Moash's actions, I just have to comment that I *really* thought he was going to lead Sah and company against the Fused after he helped them pull their sled thingy (I forget what it was exactly). Moash killing Elhokar stung, especially because we see it through Kaladin's eyes. Kaladin doesn't even know Moash's history after leaving the warcamps. In my head, the scene plays out in slow motion as soon as Elhokar starts to say the words. Then I imagine Moash striding in, ignoring everyone else, and just stabbing Elhokar who isn't even fighting at this point. And then he has the gall to nod / salute to Kaladin as if to say "Mission accomplished," turning around and striding out again. @Nepene I messed up the quoting, but you make a fair point. Becoming a Radiant definitely isn't the end of a redemption arc. Look at Malata.

I said this in the discussion of the part this happened in, and I'll say it again here: I'm sad Elhokar died, but I agree that the story called for it. I don't agree that he did not deserve redemption. To do so would be to say Dalinar* and Szeth** do not deserve to be redeemed. I'm with @Ookla the Metroid in that I felt like Elhokar was trying very hard in Oathbringer to change. He was bad at it, but change always takes time. He was taking the first few steps, and he was stumbling, and he got cut down before he could finish. *The events at the Rift are *way* worse than anything we know Elhokar did. If Elhokar is not worthy of redemption, neither is Dalinar. **Szeth's history is a bit cleaner, as he was simply a tool. While Szeth is ultimately the one who did a bunch of the killing, he was following the laws and traditions of his people and ended up in the hands of some unsavory people. But his story is like the people of Uvara from the Wondersail story: he believed he could lay the blame on the Stone Shamans, but in the end, all the killing was his own doing. He could have walked away from the oathstone at any time. This came in while I was writing up my response. Neither of those events are what allowed them to bond spren though. And I would argue that the overall actions at the Rift isn't what allowed Dalinar to bond a spren (although, the death of Evi at the Rift is probably the main trigger).

I've seen this in a few threads here. Where was this stated?

Yeah, that's what I would expect. Typically a mass market paperback is released months after the Hardcover editions. I was actually surprised when I heard there was a Trade Paperback already, as I thought they were typically delayed as well.

From my understanding there are different types of paperbacks. Broadly, your statement is correct. A trade paperback is normally the same size as a Hardcover edition of the same book, i.e. the cover is what's different. Mass market paperbacks are smaller in size, and what I think most people associate the term paperback with (I know I do). EDIT: Here's a picture from Rothfuss's blog that shows Hardcover, Trade paperback, and Mass Market Paperback (in that order). The UK mass market paperback editions of each of the books have come in two volumes. It is possible that the US version of Oathbringer will do the same (or maybe it'll always be a box "set" of two physical books, but sold as one).

Honestly, I didn't pay much attention to the chain during my read through. But, hearing your ideas got me thinking. It could be silver from Threnody, but I don't think silver from there had any special (i.e. magical) properties. Then again, it did lose something when the Shades touched it. That could be more like a chemical reaction though, literally changing it from silver to something else (otherwise, how would you tell which silver was still good...unless it could be "recharged" somehow). This was my immediate next thought, and I'll put the rest behind a Bands of Mourning spoiler warning. Or it could be Dragonsteel. I have no idea what that stuff is though, so definitely not sure how to "test" for it. I will say one thing: Whatever it is, I feel like it's *highly* Invested. We know beings in the Cognitive Realm trade in Stormlight, not spheres. Maybe it's worth so much because it has a bunch of Investiture itself; Investiture that can't be pulled from it (at least not as Stormlight).

I don't know why this was the point, but when she's talking with Kaladin up on the wall and they're trying to figure out who each other are. Then the Fused attack and they just look at each other, nod, then run off in opposite directions to defend the wall. The nod is the point I was like, "Wait. That's Vivenna!" I was aware she'd be showing up, so while none of that scene really screams Vivenna...that's just when my mind finally put it together that the mysterious female with the odd behaviors was probably Vivenna. And I immediately also said, "Her name is storming Azure! How did it take me this long!"

That's a really good point. Based on information in OB, I thought Honor was dead prior to the Recurrence, and him being dead actually was part of what lead to it. That is to say, The KR learned that they were the Voidbringers all along, that the surges could destroy worlds (and had), and with Honor gone, there was no check on their power. Hmm, my understanding of the timeline is all whack now. I'm trying to piece it together, but it's just not clicking.

I was definitely on the Timbre = Eshonai bandwagon at first, but given the Epilogue I think I have to disagree now. If I believe that Timbre = Eshonai, then I have to believe that the Cryptic from the epilogue is Elhokar (which I don't). Timbre is Timbre, and was hanging around Eshonai because she was a proto-radiant (much like Elhokar was). When Eshonai died prior to the actual bond (again, like Elhokar did), it left Timbre stranded in the Physical Realm. Then Venli comes along and Timbre starts following her around. Similarly, the spren Elhokar was going to bond is stuck in the Physical Realm and is now going to be following Hoid around.

I only shed tears in some of the Part 2 stuff. When Hobber healed his legs. When Rock (Lunamor) is giving everyone advice in his PoV, and eventually meets with his family (who I forgot existed until then). When Skar resigns himself to helping others become Squires (like he did with Lyn), but ends up being one himself. I mentioned it elsewhere, but I definitely cried more during times of healing and helping than in times of deaths. I still like to think that's because healing and helping are not guarantees; and so they require an effort to produce. Dying is easy, and happens to us all eventually. It is sad, but doesn't bring me to tears.

I'm starting to get an aversion to theories that don't have a lot of proof behind them. Afaik, the only "proof" in OB that this was an Aviar was the fact that Mraize had it, and he's known to collect objects of importance / power from around the Cosmere. But as @Pagerunner points out: I did not know this. Thanks!

Has it been confirmed that was an Aviar? Last I heard (during the previews) it was speculation. Warbreaker "spoiler" here

While I like your idea of Szeth's story, I think it makes more sense to have the Eshonai flashbacks in the next book for the exact reason you said it would be odd. If he waits until book 5 for Eshonai flashbacks, we'll be a book removed from her death and likely from much mention of her either. So book 4 being Eshonai's flashbacks and a lot of PoVs from Venli makes sense to me. In this scenario, Szeth will be bound to Dalinar as a reason to not go seek vengeance on the Shin people. In the course of book 4, we may still learn more about the Shin people and maybe Dalinar will need to "deal" with them leading into book 5 as Szeth's flashbacks and Szeth dealing with Shin in present day.

I had the same reaction. I definitely enjoyed this book, but I felt like there were minor issues I had while reading, which I don't really remember having during either tWoK or WoR. One thing that bothered me especially is in scenes where multiple people are present, but not everyone is accounted for right away. It happened a few times, but it was mostly in Shadesmar. A good example of this is when they're on the Honorspren boat, and Kaladin and Shallan are talking (I realize that's vague, I'll have to get a chapter number sometime). Everyone else is mentioned, except for Adolin (and the Deadeye, who doesn't move around in this part of the book).

I think he's on the path to at least revive (and hold) Honor's Shard, if not eventually holding Odium as well if and when he is defeated. Also, @FuzzyWordsmith, I think you should put that Mistborn Spoiler behind a spoiler block.