hoser

I wonder whether there is an assumption working here: lighteyes can't be commissioned officers. It seems simpler and to fit the text just as well to consider that darkeyes can hold ranks up to captain and that captain means captain. This way, Kaladin was a platoonleader, essentially a lieutenant, back in Amaram's forces. Now, as a captain, he can lead a company. These ranks seem compatible with the structure found in Wikipedia. Consider this exchange when Kaladin is interacting with Dalinar's army: This is compatible with the man serving in a platoon led by a captain who reports to a companylord. It clearly implies that there are no ranks between captain and companylord. So the word captain in Dalinar's army could be completely compatible with the wikipedia description use of it: leader of a company or a specialist platoon. Assuming that captain means master sergeant seems incompatible with the role that Kaladin is being given. Master sergeant roles don't seem to involve exercising overall command of units. In a society where men are illiterate, it makes sense for darkeyes to advance to command roles over other darkeyes as the commissioned officer training in a literate society is presumably more involved. What seems striking to me is that Kaladin is being given at least two distinct jobs: Create, train and lead a battalion of soldiers: job for a colonel. Train and lead Dalinar's personal guard: a specialist platoon or company normally led by a captainlord. If Kaladin is training or leading the battalion, who is commanding Dalinar's bodyguard? If he is leading the bodyguard, who is leading the battalion? Likewise, bridge 4 can't be the leaders of the bridge battalion and simultaneously guarding Dalinar. Teft seems like a potential master sergeant, but not acting battalionlord. And then when is Kaladin training with Bridge 4 to become Radiants? Kaladin needs officer help ASAP. Thoughts of an ignorant non-military person.

As you wish, originally found by Zas: Quote This is from here. Since there were Radiants around when the Heralds packed it in, Honor was present simultaneously with the Radiants also. I think that Adonalsium shattered, but shards can voluntarily create parts of their power called splinters without threatening their existence (it does reduce their strength, I think). There are several references to a Proving Day, which, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, I theorize that was a contest of some sort to pick the Heralds. I believe the Heralds were originally human. Since they don't match the racial types on Roshar, they might be from the Tranquilline Halls. People cannot be splinters, but the Heralds could be associated with splinters through their Honorblades, spren or something else.

I know nothing. Playing angel's lawyer (angel's devil?), I could say that the NPCs in the visions are being lightwoven (a la Liar of Partinel) and lightwoven figures can act somewhat independently. Playing Devil's advocate, I can't see any significant difference in the interactive capability of the non-avatar projections and the avatars, particularly when Honor even uses an NPC as his avatar in the Recreance vision. I feel confident that Dalinar will be fundamentally wrong many times in the future (assuming he survives until book 4 or so) and this conclusion does not change the plan he needs to confidently implement. Furthermore, whether the Honor projection is reponding to Dalinar, playing preset speeches or capable of being more responsive while choosing not to doesn't really matter because Dalinar has drawn his conclusion.

The liquid is described as condensation. I've been assuming that wherever they are stored is cold (or a vacuum). Thinking about it, I realize that using stormlight is endothermic, and the conduits (Kaladin, Shallan) get cold, but the stormlight itself is not necessarily cold. So, if the swords are the conduits, the use of stormlight to bring them back could be what is making them cold. As for them being in the spiritual realm, it just seems right to me, since they are sort of halfway there all the time anyway. In the cognitive realm it seems like they would get stolen or morphed, so I assume they are in the spiritual realm by process of elimination. I guess they could go on racks in a warehouse in Urithiru, but some people think thats in the spiritual realm anyway. Now I can't wait for Brandon to prove all my theories to be completely off. Hurry up with WoR already!

At the risk of betraying my iconoclastic tendencies, it seems to me to be an inconsistency that the non-Tanavast figures in these visions can interact with the things Dalinar says and does, but the Tanavast avatars can't. Not impossible, and there might be some more involved explanation. Alternatively, the Tanavast avatars can interact, but maybe they don't always. Honor is dead, and he could have programmed the projections in his visions with the knowledge that he had, but they would know nothing of Sadeas and the events of Sadeas' time. In this construction, Dalinar's conclusion that he wasn't heard may not be correct.

I am not certain. The journal is interactive. The Knights Radiant and Nohadon respond to Dalinar's questions. The Midnight essence die as a result of Dalinar's actions. There must be an "intelligence" guiding those visions in order for them to be effectively interactive. Is that a preset speech about "act with honor and honor will aid you" or a response to Dalinar's question? I doubt that Tanavast could have foreseen Dalinar's situation, but maybe he knew that the Shard remnants such as Kaladin and Syl would be around and "programmed" the visions to be responsive to that question too. The result, full of tragic death though it was, catalyzed several situations, hopefully toward a better situation. The response, if response it was, was completely in line with the Shard intent. Stormlight is fundamental to all the magic of Roshar. In a way the whole saga will be a history of the use of stormlight. Would "The Sprenlight Dialogues" be a better title for the series?

I don't think Szeth created the Shardblade. It doesn't relate to the main point here, but when Szeth talks with Taravangian, Taravangian says: Szeth doesn't disagree, even though he is generally being contentious. So, I'm not saying that there isn't a spren trapped in the blade that gives Szeth his windrunner abilities. I'm just saying that I doubt Szeth made the sword himself. Taravangian seems to know what is going on in Shinovar very well, through spies or alliance, which explains how he could send his agents to find Szeth in the first place.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I wonder why you believe that the DawnShards are ShardBlades? They are a mystery, as far as I can tell. Given that there are three types of Shardblades, we have WOB that Honorblades are a type of Shardblade and Szeth's sword looks (not as ornate, longer, thinner, double-sided) and behaves (temporary change of eyecolor to the windrunner color and lightness, may be the source of Szeth's windrunner abilities) differently makes Dawnshards, by process of elimination, not Shardblades unless they are Honorblades (RAFOed). What happened to Gavilar's blade? The fact that Brandon RAFOed ( I remember this, but can't find the quote) the question suggests to me that you are onto something. If it is missing (I remember nothing either way), I consider Hoid a definite suspect. Even if he didn't wield it himself, he could find someone to use it. He does seem to be collecting Shard souvenirs. The readings for Stormlight 2 have revealed that the Parshendi turned on Gavilar because of something he planned to do, that he told them about after the treaty was signed. The Parshendi signed the treaty sincerely, but killed him to stop him from doing something they learned about that very day. They may have been too late, but it was not to steal his DawnShardblade. As for Elhokar taking Gavilar's blade, that seems like an assumption. Both Dalinar and Elhokar seem to feel an attachment to their magical items. Elhokar could have chosen to keep the blade he already had.

Welcome to the 17th Shard! I am delighted to see your participation. I want to politely take issue with some details that I see here. Please accept my apologies if some of this seems harsh to you. The knights Radiant did not have Honorblades. They had Shardblades, some of which are presumably still in use by the likes of Dalinar, Adolin and the Parshendi Shardbearer. From the prelude: From the Prologue: Unless I believe that Kalak is deluded (which I don't): Gavilar's Shardblade is not an Honorblade because it reappeared rather than vanishing when he died. In addition, I am aware of no evidence that it is powerful beyond other Shardblades. Somebody bore it before and after Gavilar, and there has been no commentary among the Alethi about any Shardblades being non-cosmetically different. The commentary about it seeming to glow could have been a sign of Gavilar's advancement, I suppose, as Dalinar's plate seems to glow on occasion. I am aware of no evidence to indicate that Gavilar's sword is missing and the second quote shows that if it did go missing, it would have been after Szeth left. Taln, unless you think he was not carrying the Honorblade that apparently bound him to the Oathpact and disappeared when he died, would be still alive, since his blade stayed. As for Dawnshards, this thread drew no conclusions about whether they were Honorblades and Brandon RAFOed the same question last September. Dawnshards are referenced on the back cover, in Tanavast's final speech to Dalinar and one of the epigraphs. The epigraph says: The Shardblades we've seen seem to bind to their owners, rather than bind them, so this epigraph might suggest that they are more like the Shards of Adonalsium than Shardblades. In this thread, the apparent near-consensus is that the three types of Shardblades are: Honorblades, Radiantblades/Shardblades and Szethblades.

So is there a Shard of trolling? Maybe that one is purely evil. Besides the Thrill (the ability to enjoy doing everything to win), having the ability to distance oneself from what isn't meeting one's needs seems useful and could fit with Odium. I wonder whether the irrational hatred that Szeth feels towards his victims is an unhealthy aspect of Odium.

Okay. Are you saying Adonalsium's personality survived the shattering? Or are you saying that Adonalsium's basic drives were FUBAR and so some of the Shards are evil? Anyway, I am just paraphrasing Brandon, as posted here:

There is another way to look at this as well. None of the Shards are wholly evil. Some aspects of Odium contributed to the entity that was Adonalsium. So, what could be the positive aspects of Odium? The thrill could fit with Odium's intent and allow one to survive and succeed in horrible situations. It is not obviously of Honor or of Cultivation. It could be part of what the Radiant was referring to in Starfalls when she said: Maybe the Radiants are referring to the Thrill as a part of what would destroy a person by drawing them too far toward Odium.

I hope that it is helpful to suggest minor tweaks to other people's excellent contributions. Added content is in italics, removed is in strikethrough. Answer: A Splinter is a certain kind of fragment of a Shard's power. Examples of Splinters are the Divine Breaths of the Returned and the Aons at the heart of Seons. Splinters often have their own Intent different from the Shard's but they themselves are not sentient. A splinter can be formed voluntarily by a Shard or can develop as the result of one Shard being splintered by another. Source: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Splinter Question: What are the three realms? Answer. The physical realm where the universe exists is one. The spiritual realm where souls exist and where magical power like Atium leaks from, which holds our connections to others. The cognitive planerealm, AKA Shadesmar (sea of shades), is composed of the thoughts and views of beings (with more complex things having a strong presence) which can be travelled through in the form of Shadesmar. In the event of a shattering, a Shard's power is uncontrolled and it can make traveling in the cognitive plane dangerous. We have met beings, probably spren, which exist primarily on the cognitive plane and partially on the physical plane. Source. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3045-realmatic-theory-and-magic-101/ Canonicity. Books, word of Brandon. This is a new question which includes parts of the above answer Question: What is Shadesmar? Answer: The cognitive realm, where everything has an awareness. Hoid uses it to travel. Distance in Shadesmar is based on the density of awarenesses, so the vacuum of space may be relatively easy and quick to travel through. The area near where Shards have been splintered may be dangerous due to the uncontrolled power. Transmutation or Soulcasting can be performed by communicating with the awareness of the object to be transformed in Shadesmar and providing it with stormlight. Source. Canonicity. Books, word of Brandon. Question: What is a Shard? Answer: The Shards of Adonalsium, or Shards for short, are pieces of the power of creation itself that formed when Adonalsium shattered.They are named after a specific action or ideal, called an intent. A mind must control a Shard. When a person holds a Shard, they are imbued with its power, but they also become the Shard and their body will no longer survive without it. They are the most powerful entities in the Cosmere, there arewere initially probably sixteen of them, and they are for all intents and purposes gods. All known magic in the novels is generated at least partially by a Shard. Their power regenerates over time if used and they can do a great number of actions in line with their intent- moving planets, transforming things, prophesy, and fueling magic, though they are not omnipotent or omniscient and find some magics harder or impossible due to their intent. Shards can voluntarily separate parts of themselves, called splinters, or they can be splintered by another Shard, also creating splinters. It is possible for a Shard to be reformed after being splintered. Adonalsium shattered on Yolen, but many Shards travelled to other planets. Many stayed on the planet they traveled to, but at least one has traveled to multiple planets. In Mistborn, Preservation, initially held by Leras, and Ruin, initially held by Ati, traveled to Scadrial and created a race of people there. Eventually, after Ati and Leras were dead, Preservation and Ruin merged to become Harmony, held by Sazed. Honor, held by Tanavast, and Cultivation traveled to Roshar. Later, Odium, held by Rayse, travelled to Roshar and eventually splintered Honor before the start of the Stormlight Archive. Devotion, held by Aona, and Dominion, held by Skai, traveled to Sel, where Odium later also splintered them before the events of "Elantris". Endowment traveled to Nalthis. Source.http://coppermind.net/wiki/Shard Canonicity. Books, Word of Brandon. Sanderson implied. Will edit in improved sources later

Thanks for rereading your post with an open mind. I will try to use my snarky sarcasm tags more often when I am being "clever".

Ouch! My brain hurts. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. I thought the smiley would remove the sting, but maybe I should have dragged out the <snarky sarcasm> tags. Seriously, though, the last paragraph is a reasonable restatement of your initial comment. You lost me at misunderstanding or misinterpreting, though. What evidence do you have to support your statement that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your comment? I don't understand the first paragraph at all. While intelligence is an overloaded term which has lesser meanings that depend on the anthropocentric assumption that intelligent creatures are more self aware, in general: intelligence =/= sentience. If you use intelligence when you mean sentience, is it reasonable to accuse others of misunderstanding or misinterpreting you? Talk of sentience is generally not meaningful, as we humans don't actually know how sentient any other creature is. We assume that humans are more self-aware than other creatures, but I am not aware of any non-circular arguments in support. Apparently in your construct, intelligence is a step toward becoming sentient, and sentient beings can behave honorably and take things as rewards only when they deserve them. So it sounds like we agree that untameable horses choosing to serve people by being ridden into battle and kept in stables is not intelligent. So you claim that it's possible Ryshadium naturally evolved to be attracted to serve only the most honorable people and accept rewards only when they "deserve" them. Sure, it's possible. Anything is possible. Occam's razor tells me that it is more likely due to magical involvement in a book about magic on the planet affected by "Honor". However, I will bet you a gif of a cookie, an upvote or a public apology for doubting your amazing sentient judgment that it turns out that Ryshadium are affected by a Shardic investment.

Horses using lashings! Whoo-hoo! Flying horses without wings! Sign me up!

Because it's a sign of intelligence for untameable animals to choose people to ride them into battle or store in stables ...

The Parshendi are not human, but you probably already knew that. The two races of Aimaians are not human either. There are many races of sentient spren. From there, it depends if you call something like Ryshadium sentient or not. This quote seems relevant. I think the Ryshadium are part of Honor's investment. Because the magical knights need awesome magical horses. So my upvote for PM was partly for the humor, but I basically believe it. The things Gallant does basically make him more intelligent than a person and apparently he can read Dalinar's mind.

Here's a secondhand quote from Zas, but Zas being the quotemaster, I don't need to look further: This is from the Theory:the Recreance thread. If you accept that the Radiants didn't exist at the time portrayed in the Dalinar-Nohadon vision and the prelude shows that the Radiants existed at the time of the Herald abandonment, then the Almighty was around while Nohadon was alive and at least some Honorspren existed. This is the only quote relating to the Recreance trigger that I remember and it has to do with the heralds, not Honor shattering.

Meg, my apologies for not being clear! You have my admiration for your persistence in wading through to page 7. There is another directly relevant post by me as #285 on page 15, if you're interested. I hope an upvote helps mitigate the pain. While I hope some of my posts are somewhat interesting, I wouldn't suggest reading a thread for my posts. There are so many brilliant thoughts by so many here that I try to make my references to threads that are of general interest. Of course, I tend to post in the threads I find most interesting, so ... Given the lead in and direct applicability of my post, I guess I do deserve to be chastised. But no spikes, please. I faint at the sight of my own SDNA.

By stone shaman, I am referring to the Shin people who revere the stone, which is how they are referred to in the book, on occasion (IIRC). I mean it to be the alternative to stonewalker. Szeth also knows that his abilities are those of the Windrunners, a radiant order. He has a very sophisticated understanding of his abilities, including the archaic jargon of the Knights Radiant (lashings). I think that he has trained with other Stone Shamans who imparted this knowledge to him. In this process, it seems quite possible that he saw other Stone Shamans using these abilities. I doubt he expects that there are budding Radiants, which might be the essence of your point. As for the fight, I expect it to happen. I think either the fight with the Parshendi at the center of the Shattered Plains or the fight with Szeth to be the "boss fight" of the second book, but I have been trying to avoid speculating on it in this thread as I don't want to repeat posts in other threads. I have already commented in this thread, which you might find an interesting diversion although it does cover alot of other things including shipping. My posts about the Kaladin-Szeth fight are #125 on page 7 and #285 on page 15 (Thanks, Meg). Edited: clarify other thread reference

Well, it may not affect your point, but what Szeth actually says is that he: This means that he has killed stonewalkers that have seen him before, but presumably not all the Stone Shamans that have seen him in action. Talk about foreshadowing ... One can then speculate that after being given the sword (or whatever provides his abilities), he trained with other Stone Shaman. Of course, the more I speculate, the more likely I am to be wrong. Still I wonder whether he learned Kammar before or after being punished.

If you're curious, here are a few threads that have speculated about Dalinar's eventual Radiant order: Dalinar's Power and Surgebinding Attributes. Long story short: some have argued for Kak/Kelek's order (Resolute/Builder), while others have suggested Tanat's order (Dependable/Resourceful) or Chach's order (Brave/Obedient). Enjoy!

They had to have been recopied many times, presumably lately by women. I think it must have been originally written in Dawnchant. Well, it would have been if Roshar, the book and Dawnchant actually existed .