Ansalem

For those speculating about Renarin's future sight: Seeing the future isn't actually tied to Odium as Vorinism teaches, at least not directly. They're right that it's dangerous and shouldn't be trusted, but they're wrong about why. It's a power that exists across the Cosmere and it's tied to the Spiritual Realm itself. Any Shard of Adonalsium could potentially grant access to it. All of the Shards can use it themselves (some better than others) but none of them actually have any power over it as far as I'm aware. As an aside, it's the reason Hoid always knows where he's supposed to be. He uses a power called Fortune. It's unclear whether all future sight is Fortune or not. The point I'm getting at with all of this is that Renarin has some connection to the Spiritual Realm that other Truthwatchers don't have. In fact, other than Dalinar, Renarin seems to be the closest to it out of all the Radiants we know about. I suspect he'll be the key to Navani figuring out how to activate Urithiru and possibly waking the Sibling. She needs to ask him what he sees when Dalinar opens the Perpendicularity instead of Rushu or other scholars.

And having it violently ripped away pretty much immediately upon failure. Actually, Kaladin almost lost Syl for failing an oath he hadn't even sworn yet. Well, I guess that's not exactly accurate, but the other way of looking at it is that he was failing oaths not directly related to the Bond because he accidentally put himself in a catch-22. Even with how seemingly easy it is to gain the powers it's much easier to lose them. And it isn't actually that easy to get them anyway, as was shown with the Lopen at the end of OB. Just saying the words isn't enough, and swearing the oath is a huge risk all on its own because each new oath creates more avenues for failure. Plus there's the fact that each time a Radiant swears an oath they get an instant burst of power, so unless Skybreakers are special in this one specific way it seems pretty clear they get their Plate immediately upon swearing to their Crusade.

Presumably living plate, as far as Investiture is concerned, is a part of the Radiant themselves. So their Surges will work the same for them with or without it but someone else's plate would resist it. Living plate would also presumably be more resistant than dead plate because it's more Invested. By which I mean living plate is a manifestation of either the Radiant's or Spren Investiture while dead plate has to be Invested by an external source making it less efficient. Though it still seems to be remarkably resistant either way so the difference might never come up. Most of that is assumption admittedly, but I think it makes the most sense given what is known about Investiture as a whole.

Yeah, you're right. I was literally just reading the WoB that said that for a completely different reason when you said that. Weird things happen sometimes. lol

The same can be said for Honor, Odium, and all other "Gods" in the Cosmere. Anyone can become Odium given the circumstance Rayse was in when he became Odium. I want to avoid other series spoilers just in case so no details, but we have seen that happen onscreen more than once in the Cosmere where a normal person becomes a God. The Heralds are more like Splinters although I'm not sure if they technically count as such. And it shouldn't be that difficult to prove they're at least immortal, if not specifically that they're Heralds. Just don't let them eat for a month or 10. See if they ever sleep. Things like that. If Jasnah cares to prove it, she should be able to devise a way without too much trouble. She might not bother though since she personally already knows for certain they're the real Heralds. And I'm pretty sure the Stormfather can just tell people. Pretty much everyone on Roshar would just take his word for it.

Personally, I believe the Fused who were growing and using their carapace in strange ways were using the Surge of Progression. Their carapace doesn't just do that, it's a Surge. It may also be used for muscle growth, but that's less evident.

More like The Faceful.

The more likely explanation is that Dalinar visited before Lift did. The next more likely explanation is that Lift wasn't visited by Cultivation but only the Nightwatcher. Lift being centuries old is incredibly unlikely.

I kind of agree, but also for a different reason. It just seems odd to me that they would choose an important character death as their audio preview chapter. "Kind of" agree because I'm not utterly convinced she is not dead, just mostly convinced. Not that it makes a lot of difference to me since it's the interlude after part 1, but what about people who only listen to the sample chapter and didn't read the whole pre-release first? Imagine a couple years down the line, someone is looking for an audiobook and they listen to the sample chapter on Amazon or wherever, is this what they're going to hear? Just seems weird to pick that one. Granted it is part 3 of a series, so probably not going to be a very common occurrence, but still. Guess we'll find out tomorrow(ish).

Audio definitely isn't for everyone, but you might still enjoy Graphic Audio if you've never tried that. Who knows when Oathbringer will be done by GA, but the first two are pretty great in my opinion. It doesn't suffer from the problem you mention, though it does suffer from others of course. Strangely enough, I used to hate audiobooks, but now it's my preferred medium. I'm not really sure what changed. Although I actually read along with it anyway, most of the time. Especially for SA because of the art and epigraphs.

I know, that's why it's weird.

Somehow, when you break it down into time like that it doesn't seem like enough. Although, that is like 2-3 seasons if it were a show.

What I'm most anticipating are the things I don't see coming. Oh, and all the other things too of course.

Szeth can also write the Alethi Women's Script. When he killed Gavilar, he wrote Gavilar's last words to Dalinar. Everyone assumed Gavilar learned to write in the late part of his life and wrote it himself, which means it must have been written in Alethi. If it had been written in Shin, no one would have thought Gavilar wrote it, they would have suspected the Shin assassin. It would have sparked discussion and speculation by the Alethi instead of people just assuming Gavilar wrote it, think it's odd, then move on. So, Szeth can read and write in at least two languages.

I'm going to be listening to the audiobook (and reading along for most of it of course), so I'll start from the beginning. Plus, I tend to forget things if too much time passes and it'll be a couple months since I read the beginning when I get to read the rest, so I basically have to start over anyway. That's a lot of time to pass when I normally read a book in a day or two, or about a week listening. I'm going to read it many times anyway, and that would be a problem if starting over bothered me.

I never said she should be involved in the Diagram. I'm saying your reason that she shouldn't be doesn't make sense. She isn't remotely as suspicious as you say she is, not to a person living in their world. To us she is but that's because we know what's going on in the world and we know the private thoughts of the characters. So far only Dalinar has noticed anything of concern and as far as I can tell he doesn't really have much reason. But even if he did, Dalinar is a special case and we haven't seen anyone else's opinion of Malata at all.

So far as we know, she only made one person slightly suspicious. Everyone else will very likely see it the way Navani did, "if she's a Radiant, she can't be bad right?" Also, I would say Brandon disagrees with your assessment about assassins and secret organization members standing out. Szeth is super obvious. Iyatil would be the most suspicious person in any room. Compared to Iyatil, what's so suspicious about Malata that Iyatil makes sense for a secret organization but Malata doesn't? One of them is a little smiley, the other one has a freaking mask fused to their face. What I'm saying is, if I saw Malata, I wouldn't be the least bit suspicious of her behavior.

I agree completely with Mr King. I always listen nowadays. When I read I can't stop my eyes from skipping ahead. Anytime there's a " my eyes shoot straight to it. I try to refocus but they just keep going back. So now I read along with a narrator and I don't miss anything. No more skipping paragraphs and reading each page in the wrong order.

I'm not disagreeing with your points. Of course we as readers have lots of reason to be suspicious of her. But I clearly didn't phrase my question properly. People were saying that she is acting so suspiciously that they would never include her in their secret organization. So my question is actually what reason does Taravangian have to be suspicious of her? What about her behavior would keep him from including her in the Diagram? Why would he expect her to give them away just because she's smiley?

Well, it would follow the pattern.

Well, these days I listen to audiobooks instead of reading. So on the one hand it'll be a different experience the second time through. But on the other hand audiobooks take way longer to go through, so I'll be on the stuff I've already read forrreevverr before I get to the new stuff. But on the other other hand, I also intend to listen to the Graphic Audio when that gets made. It better get made.

Nope. Literally right after posting I thought about saying "for all you know, she's smiling at Dalinar cause she thinks he's handsome". But I didn't. Now I did, though, so yay?

Well, it isn't my theory it's just one I've seen thrown around as a potential a lot. But there are a couple things. First, his goal isn't just to save Roshar from Odium, it's very specifically to unite Roshar ("you must become king of everything"). He's following Gavliar's mandate to "unite them", which we know Gavilar was having the visions from the Stormfather before Dalinar was. So his goal isn't just the same from the high view, it's exactly the same goal. He inherited it from Gavilar who is confirmed to have been on the path to becoming a Bondsmith. Second, the Bondsmith spren are unique. That is to say, they are all different from each other. The spren of the other orders are (as Syl put it) essentially the same individual, there's very little difference between one honorspren and another. But there is only one Stormfather. We know there are meant to be exactly 3 Bondsmiths so 3 Bondsmith spren, so it makes sense to assume their spren will have very different views from each other on what can count as uniting. There is some speculation that the Nightwatcher might be one of the Bondsmith spren (if for no other reason than she's the only other spren as powerful as the Stormfather that we know about so far), and Taravangian is pretty strongly tied to her. She's essentially the cause of the Diagram. She very well may have given him his curse/boon just so that he would create the Diagram in order to unite Roshar against the Desolation. So if Taravangian is going to be a Radiant at all, it's almost certainly Bondsmith. 1. People are saying she's suspicious and therefore wouldn't be allowed into a secret society, and they are saying this in reference to the Diagram. As in, her being with Taravangian can't be why she's suspicious for any reason other than meta knowledge. This has nothing to do with her behavior and doesn't add any evidence that Taravangian wouldn't allow her to be in on the Diagram because she's, what, with him? 2. That's reading an awful lot into Dalinar saying he doesn't like how she smiles. Remember, this is from his point of view. He's the only one who's noted anything odd about her behavior and we've seen her extremely briefly. Take a step back away from Dalinar's mind and view the scenes again. She's just smiling and looking at a mural. Just because Dalinar doesn't like it doesn't make it creepy, doesn't mean she holds some secret knowledge or agenda, and it doesn't make her suspicious. Dalinar himself didn't say anything more than he doesn't like it, we don't even know why he doesn't like it. But I'm not arguing Dalinar doesn't find her suspicious, I'm saying I disagree with his reasoning. 3. Again, people are saying that she's suspicious and therefore can't be in on the Diagram. Taravangian can't be the one making her suspicious if her suspiciousness is cause for him not including her. 4. Think I covered most of this already. Dalinar's view is Dalinar's view. Why should it be the reader's view? It isn't mine. You just said yourself Dalinar isn't a terribly great judge of character. He trusts Taravangian, one of the least trustworthy people we know of. He can be wrong. 5. And Edgedancers were historically graceful and elegant. Then there's Lift. I judge a person based on that person alone. And literally the only things I know about Malata so far is that she smiles a lot and she claims to be a Dustbringer. I know nothing else about her. Also, Dalinar doesn't know that. Shallan might, but we haven't heard her opinion of Malata yet. I will say that her being with Taravangian does obviously make her suspicious, but it's also beside the point. If Taravangian's connection is what makes her suspicious, it's only to the reader who has meta knowledge of the story and nothing at all to do with what we've actually seen from her, and it can't be cause for her not being included in his secret society because then no one would be. A little odd if the head of a secret society won't let you in because you're associated with them. So the only suspiciousness we can see is irrelevant to the discussion and would apply to literally anyone who arrived with Taravangian (except Jasnah I guess). But everyone's saying she's acting suspicious. What specifically about her behavior is suspicious? The only thing there is is her smiling. People smile. Or is it the way she was looking at a Dustbringer mural? I don't get it. In my opinion, people are reading what isn't written.

I would say the first ideal is wide open to interpretation and is probably not actually binding like the others. Besides, Shallan has murdered people in cold blood. That would seem to go against the first ideal, but not only did it not cost her her Radiancy, acknowledging the fact counts as one of her oaths. There is also reason to believe Taravangian might become one of the Bondsmiths himself. And could someone tell me why everyone's saying Malata is super suspicious? What's so suspicious about smiling? How is being smiley too suspicious for a secret society to ever let her in yet Iyatil is perfectly reasonable? Nothing suspicious about her at all...

It can be read either way. Could simply be an oddly phrased way to say "can we conspire to use a Truthless". Taravangian was frantic and deranged at the time. He couldn't even be bothered to space his words, after all. Either way that wasn't my primary point.