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Amanuensis

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  1. Amanuensis
    In light of all these recent votes, here's another tally. (0) Paranoid King: Clanky (1), (0) Clanky: Arraenae (1), (3) Stink: Hellscythe (1), Orlok (1), Twei (1) (2) Hellscythe: Elbereth (1), phattmer (1), Mailliw (1), Tony (1), (0) Orlok: Arraenae (1), (2) Adavantos: Sart (1), DeathClutch (1), (1) Sart: Kipper (1), (1) Feligon: Paranoid King (1), (2) Mailliw: Adavantos (1), Araris (1), (1) Venture: Seonid (1), (1) Kynedath: Arraenae (3),
  2. Amanuensis
    You're right, there is more than that behind my vote. I have a tendency to vote for players that I want to hear more from, either because they're not participating or something they did doesn't make logical sense to me.
  3. Amanuensis
    I can see that; just wanted to get that out of the way myself, so that just in case you turn out to be evil and you're trying to implicate me I can use calling you out as a defense. Thanks. In regards to my post summaries, I think it is extremely useful in the long term because a few turns down the line when we have a confirmed Diagrammist to analyze all players can easily sift through their posts for leads on other players, or in the case that someone is coming off suspicious they can gather evidence against them without spending all the time it takes to explore every page. This is especially important to me because if I die I'll have left a tool behind that can continue to aid my teammates. I also hope that someone will pick up the habit in my stead, so by doing this I provide a format for others to base it off of. 1. I can vouch that Stink claimed he would be playing this game seriously long before it's beginning, so his style change is not in relation to his alignment. 2. Role and Faction are the most important things about this game, and because I believe you will die very soon because of your reveal I do not think it has made the game more fun, especially for you. 3. I still think this is a terrible idea; will explain why shortly. 4. I will admit the reactions could be useful, but I believe there are more efficient ways to get people talking then screwing over your team (assuming you're not evil and telling the truth). 5. This is what I disagree with the most. Why would eliminators not want public information? That's exactly what I would want if I were evil. Whether or not they believe a Runner is worth attacking, they have an advantage. Personally I don't think in this game Runners are priority for the Diagrammists due to the severe limits on them. The issue now is they know you're not a Scholar and can ignore you to find whoever is. I like the odds of 4:30 better than 4:29 when it comes to them randomly choosing a target to kill (assuming there are 4 Scholars and 6 Diagrammists). In regards to Venture, I'm just clueless, honestly. Every game I'm in with him he throws me off with his nonchalant behavior. Usually I just ignore him for that reason. Since no one has posted one of these yet, this is the countdown until turnover. @Wilson/Kasimir, would you be so kindly to include these in future write ups? If not I'll try to post one immediately after, unless Kipper would like to claim them again.
  4. Amanuensis
    @Wilson/Kasimir: Because I just realized the links in my post summaries will be rendered null when you combine these cycles with the sign up thread, may I request that until the game is over you two simply lock these and keep them floating around on their own? That way each player can continue to navigate the MR with ease.
  5. Amanuensis
    This is precisely the clarification I needed. I had planned on focusing on the primary rather than the secondary regardless, but with this word of GM I think you should all realize now that it's best if we relentlessly pursue the Diagrammists until they're all killed before we turn on each other. That being said, I do want to win this game, so whether you're a Son of Honor or a Ghostblood I advise you keep it between you and your confirmed kin. I haven't bothered making a tree of who belongs to what faction based of the responses to Mail's false reveal yet, but I'm willing to bet that a few players have and that one side is at a severe advantage in that regard. That being said, I can somewhat agree with Clanky putting players he is both suspicious of and on the opposite faction as a priority, however fundamentally I think it's more important that we pursue the most solid leads rather than the one that's convenient for our side. Lastly, this is only a request and entirely up to you, but to my faction leader, I would like to have a private word with you sometime in the future if you deem it not too much of a risk contacting me.
  6. Amanuensis
    I really don't want to lie about the reason why I didn't express my opinions prior to Sart and Bort calling me out, but I'm afraid I'll have to keep some details to myself. I will say this, however; my sitting back was a combination of many things, not limited to but including: a relatively hectic night at work (Note: it really doesn't take much effort to do these post summary's, so long as I keep up with it. If I have access to a computer and an email notification pops up saying someone posted, I grab the post's link real quick and jot down what I can, revisiting it later), me wanting to wait until I gathered enough substantial information so that I don't end up posting a dozen post summaries a turn, me wanting to observe how certain players reacted without my calling them out in case they might give up more information, and me trying to avoid another situation like LG15 where I gained a ton of trust D1 resulting in a very disadvantaged Eliminator team. Whereas last game I went for a more quantity over quality approach with most posts, this time I'm attempting the opposite. That, and I was curious to see who would be the ones to challenge me, as I actually gain a great deal of information from players when they implicate, ignore or defend me. Also, you're right about me missing Kipper's vote. Allow me to fix that. (1) Paranoid King: Clanky (1), (0) Clanky: Arraenae (1), (3) Stink: Hellscythe (1), Orlok (1), Twei (1) (2) Hellscythe: Elbereth (1), phattmer (1), Mailliw (1), Tony (1), (1) Orlok: Arraenae (1), (1) Adavantos: Sart (1), (1) Sart: Kipper (1), (1) Feligon: Paranoid King (1), (1) Mailliw: Adavantos (1), EDIT: In the spirit of "spreading the joy," as PK put it, I suppose I will place the first vote on Mailliw, who I am personally most suspicious of at the time being for the reasons mentioned in my previous post. Really what I want to know, Mail, is an explanation for your original vote on Hellscythe (beyond you "liking your PMs") and more importantly your subsequent retraction. Also, what did you hope to gain from the fake Thaidakar reveal?
  7. Amanuensis
    C1 Post Summaries, 51 - 84 Alvron: Quotes Feligon’s suggestion to have Runners contact Stink, saying that if he turns out to be a Diagrammist this would be a bad idea as the eliminators now know who to go after in order to end private communication. Quotes Arraenae’s edit about the accuracy of Mail’s list, claiming that he believes Mail is not Thaidakar for two reasons; first because he knows at least one name on it that is innaccurate and second because he believes if he was truly waiting on Restares he would have waited 12-24 hours to account for different timezones. Clanky: Claims he is wrong and bets that Mail is a Commander who knew half the list and guessed the rest. Alvron: Quotes Clanky’s previous post, saying he is more inclined to believe that either Mail is just being his “trollish self” or a Diagrammist attempting to glean information. Clanky: Quotes Alvron’s previous post, asking how Diagrammists benefit from knowing the player’s factions. Hael: Types up the post he promised from earlier. Believes that Mail is a Commander, as it gives him enough information to reasonably guess the rest of faction. His purpose? To see how people react to it in order to determine their alignment (Note: Assuming he means Faction and not whether they are a Diagrammist or not). Says that because of Mail’s reveal approximately twelve people have implicated themselves to belong to one or the other. He then says that he doesn’t find Mail suspicious for doing this, as he called a play like this ahead of time in the LG15 Dead Doc. Says that he doesn’t have enough information to accurately guess which faction Mail belongs to, but if he were him he would have claimed the opposite. Suggests it’s possible he purposely fudged some information or randomized the list entirely, but finds the latter less reasonable. Decides he is happy that he did this because it increased the amount of information available without revealing it all. Edits in to respond to Clanky that a Diagrammist could benefit from knowing Faction members by playing them against each other. Zas: Attempts to determine Faction Structure and uses mathematics to determine the positions of Diagrammists among their ranks. Hopes that the Diagrammists are mostly Regulars or Captains, as if one of them began a Commander or even a Leader they would have began with a lot of information that they could use to manipulate the thread. In black text says he will be relatively inactive due to finals for the first four cycles. Edits in that it is clear Mail’s post is inaccurate. Asks that if he was a Commander why would he mix true information with false information, which would only benefit him, and therefore a selfish one. However, if he is a Captain or Regular, he is more likely looking for responses. Thinks that regardless this was a good way to start the game. Alvron: .Quotes Clanky’s previous post, saying that if an actual Faction Leader were to challenge him with their own list it would reveal the Diagrammists who they are and give them someone to attack. Additionally, it veers the conversation away from searching for Diagrammists, as well as provides him for an alibi if Urithiru were to turn on him. Quotes Hael’s previous post where he guesses at Alvron’s position within the Sons of Honor due to his response, claiming that in order to protect that information he was purposely vague. Hael: Quotes Alvron’s previous response, saying it’s up to the observers to determine how much thought he put into his reaction before posting it. Also says that Commanders may now be able to guess half the list assuming that Mail is also a Commander and accurately put in the information he knew. Alvron: Quotes Hael’s previous response, claiming to deliberate on most posts for about ten minutes before submitting it. States that Commanders only know the Leader and the Captains under their charge, and therefore cannot determine a full roster, according to his understanding of the rules. Hael: Quotes Alvron’s previous post, saying he hasn’t taken a good look at a rules, but that like the Faction Leaders, who know everyone below him, the Commanders do as well; to confirm he goes to reread the rules. Edits in that the rules don’t really clarify which is true and therefore asks the GM. Later this question is answered, saying that Commanders do indeed know everyone below them. Alvron: Claims that he may be purposely sowing false information to hide his position. Hellscythe: Quotes Hael’s comment about Mail trying to instigate reactions, claiming that “they are unto us,” (Note: does not clarify who they are). Quotes Zas’ computations, saying that he’s only right if they assume the distribution was completely random with no outside stigma. Creccio: Weighs in on Hael/Alvron’s debate on how much of the roster Commanders might know. Asks for Alvron to clarify on what he means by “reports to” regarding factions, as it has been previously clarified that PMs can only be started by Runners and the Bondsmith. Asks if anyone has any leads on finding the Diagrammists, as he currently has no ideas. Sart: RP post in response to Adavantos’ post summaries with a vote against him. Explains that he is voting for me because I am a dangerous player and that he does not agree with the idea of post summaries, as while it requires a lot of effort, in his opinion it doesn’t really accomplish anything - is just another way to contribute without actually contribute. Also claims that intentional or not they will be biased to my side. Hael: Responds to Creccio’s input, saying he’ll wait on further clarification by those with more knowledge on the matter, as well as clarifies Alvron’s previous wording in that he was just referring to the structure of the Faction. Answers that until we begin to see who the Diagrammists go after and player’s reactions to it all we can do is continue to discuss the game and who we should lynch to weed them out. Clanky: Quotes Creccio’s previous post, saying that the best way to find the eliminators in any game is to talk. References that almost every game someone asks this same question and that it is suspicious. Believes that people are underestimating the power of Thaidakar and Restares, as if they were to establish a line of communication among their faction they could direct kills to fulfill their secondary win condition; also that it wouldn’t be to damaging if they were to die. Elbereth: Quotes Hellscythe’s earlier suggestion about having the cook double tap lynch targets, as it 1: assumes the Surgeon would want to protect the lynchee, which if they did do would only cast more suspicion on that player next cycle, which at that point it would be appropriate to double tap them. Believes that otherwise the Cook’s lose the purpose of their role, which is to poison who they think is suspicious or take out inactives if it becomes a problem this game. Quotes a later comment by Hellscythe about Diagrammists being randomly distributed, referencing a statement in the rules that confirms this; however, in the off chance that both Thaidakar and Restares were made Diagrammists, the GMs might intervene. Quotes Sart’s post where he votes against me, explaining that from experience the post summaries are useful and that she trusts I’ll post analysis later on in the turn. In response to Mail’s reveal, believes that with an RNG he could have accurately guessed just as many player’s factions. She believes the point wasn’t to be right, but to figure out others factions based on their responses, which has been “admirably successful.” Retracts her vote off of Hellscythe, saying that she understands his vote on Stink but does not agree with it. Asks the GM if original votes should be turned green to keep them from counting. Kipper: Off topic comment about Mace Windu being in the game. Quotes Adavantos’ post summaries post, asking for him to spoiler it due to its length. Taunts him in blue text about the use of blue text, claiming that since people seldom use it he didn’t think it necessary before running on about how much of a smart*** he is by being a smart***. Responds to Clanky’s last post, saying that both the information and knowing who gives out information is useful to the Diagrammists, as typically more important roles are more reluctant with giving out information. Off-topic comment directed at Alvron. Quotes Creccio’s question about how to find the Diagrammists and declares him a confirmed Diagrammist. Quotes Sart’s post where he votes against me, saying that he thinks voting for a player using bias as a reason is odd. Asks for him to point out examples of said bias as he does not see it. References that historically Adavantos has made posts just like this, and asks what he hopes to learn from my reaction. Asks for Sart to give an example of subject to discuss that is free of bias. Points out that in this post he doesn’t really contribute much either. Ends the post with a vote for Sart and a post script claiming he’s eager to see this post summary. Mail: Commends Alvron for being the player who gave up the least amount of information through his reaction. Quotes Elbereth’s previous analysis of Mail’s intent, saying she’s right and that now, whether or not he really is Thaidakar, he has painted a target on his back for both those who oppose him and those with the power to save him. Elbereth: Claims that it’s likely Mail would have received protection anyway due to his experience. Comments on how interesting it would be if all the Surgeons and Edgedancers were new players and instead ignored the meta by protecting who their gut told them. Mail: References the last two games where he was killed N1 by the eliminators, saying that at least in this case he could actually leave the game having helped some. Says that they have now reactions to base suspicions of Diagrammists off of, and has determined that Clanky and Sart are most suspicious. Seonid: Congratulates Mail for his uncertain Thaidakar reveal. Says in black text that he will be unavailable until Monday due to school work, but that he looks forward to playing when he is available. Tony: Post expressing frustration, apologizing and saying he was trying to figure out the multiquote feature. (Note: original content edited, would like to know what was originally contained within this post). Hellscythe: Quotes Elbereth’s response to his previously proposed strategy, claiming that if he were a Diagrammist Surgeon he would protect the lynch every night he could in order to sow doubt into the thread. Then says that the Cooks can poison whoever they want but lacking other leads to double tap the lynch just in case. Elbereth: Responds to Hellscythe’s logic that if the Diagrammists did that it would take twice as long for their team to win, which doesn’t seem like a good idea. Also reminds him that unless they figure out a system to ensure Scholar information gets out they can’t learn anything from the lynch anyway. She does agree that it’s a good safety measure, however she is uncertain if double tapping is even a thing this game. Believes that we can learn more information from a lynchee being saved than them simply being killed. Stink: Indirectly advises the others from giving the eliminators strategies to use. Hael: Quotes Zas’ calculations regarding faction placements, weighing in on what he would do if her were the GM of this game. Zas: Adjusts his calculations according to Hael’s logic. Hellscythe: Claims Stink is suspicious because he is the only known Regular, then asks him why should they let the Diagrammists form plans when they could try to thwart them. Stink: Answers that doing so in a place where everyone can see it is inefficient. Bort: Expresses wonder that the thread is already at five pages. Claims that I am the player he is most suspicious of due to my summary post, but is looking forward to what else I have to say. Thinks Mail is suspicious for his reveal, but because he was killed N1 the last two games will refrain on voting for him for now. Feligon: Expresses suspicions of Mail but does not vote because he doesn’t think that his reveal alone is reason enough to be lynched. Says he should read the thread again but that he needs sleep. Twei: Casts suspicion on Mail for routing the direction of the thread away from the typical day one lynch discussion regarding Stink and Hellscythe. Redirects it back by voting for Stink, asking why he revealed his role. Adavantos: Once again, won’t bother summarizing myself. Know that every time I post one of these I will be putting a link in my signature to it, so that every time I post you can quickly direct yourself to a set of summaries you wish to read again, which you can then use to go to a player’s post. If I keep this up, this should make it extremely easy for everyone to navigate the game and gather evidence against one another. Alright so, with that out of the way, time for some analysis. I’m still trying to observe a few players who have given me odd vibes so I’ll refrain from commenting on them now so that they don’t start acting different before I can learn more, however I will comment on a few of the more discussion centric subjects. First, Stink. Besides me thinking that his reveal was an absolutely terrible idea from a villager’s perspective, I am unsure of his alignment as a result. My primary issue with this reveal is that he is clearly trying to garner trust in a similar fashion to how I have in previous games, and that in most - if not all of - the games I’ve played it, when someone made a public reveal like this early on (see Joe in MR9) people always question their alignment but seldom actually pursue them, and in all the cases I can think of said player ended up being innocent. So, assuming Stink is conscious of this fact, it would be a rational way for an eliminator to get on the thread’s good side in a game without an ability to scan roles or alignments to confirm it. Another thing about it is that because of the role he claimed (Runner) it’s natural that the village would want to protect him, as I believe it was Elbereth who stated in a previous post, that PMs tend to benefit them more than the eliminators. By claiming that he is a Son of Honor he has made himself an ideal target for a rogue Ghostblood Cook, but also protection from an SoH Surgeon/ Edgedancer. By claiming he is a Runner he has tempted the Diagrammists into attacking him, but also encouraged a good Surgeon / Edgedancer to come to his aid. Overall, the situation he has put himself in would benefit the evil faction more if he were to succeed in getting protection, opening up many options, such as a WGG without actually using a protection of their own or placing a member of theirs in a position where they can gather information for their team. Regardless of this, I want to believe Stink is genuine due to the nature of his posts (besides the bit about revealing everything in thread, everything he has said has real worth). Second, Hellscythe. Hellscythe’s actions this cycle remind me a lot of Bridge Boy’s on D1 of LG15 when he placed an unfounded vote on Alvron for a joke and received a ton of suspicion as a result of that and his subsequent reactions. Some players believed that an eliminator wouldn’t make a mistake like that to begin with, which turned out to be wrong. Knowing that Hellscythe was a part of that game, logically I conclude that he would not allow himself to do the same thing if he really were evil; however that could also be his intent, to throw us off by doing the exact same thing an eliminator did last game. A lot of the things he is saying, however, really makes no sense to me as a villager. Like Araris in the same game, I get the vibe that he is intentionally trying to get us to pursue false leads and waste resources (referencing the cook double-tap idea). If not for the three consecutive votes on him around page 2 I would be much more suspicious of him, but from my experience when things like that happen there’s usually an eliminator among the players who jump on another like that. Third, Mail. He’s drifting towards the top of my maybe evil list right now, and this began long before his Thaidakar reveal. Him being the third vote on Hellscythe was the first red flag for me; I would have accepted it due to how odd I think Hellscythe is acting before his seemingly random retraction, but after that I am even more suspicious of him. It would be one thing if another player had done something to convince us that they’re more worthy of being lynched, but at that point in time - besides himself - Hellscythe was the most suspicious player, in my opinion. His lack of solid explanation and back-and-forth with Hellscythe concerns me. As for the Thaidakar reveal, my initial thoughts were that he was full of it, because if he was truly Thaidakar he would have posted the entire roster the second Stink revealed his role instead of congratulating him and claiming he would if he could. Maybe if he waited longer before revealing I could buy the waiting on Restares excuse, but he didn’t and thus I already consider him a liar. It’s clear he’s phishing for information but besides potentially luring out faction leaders and turning the team’s against each other I don’t see how the benefit of this plot would outweigh the cost for the Diagrammists. Automatically a false claim at this level would attract attention, which is something eliminators seldom want. I am more inclined to agree with Hael’s mindset that Mail would have done this regardless of alignment because it’s simply something he would do. Sadly because of the fact that I believe that if he was evil his teammates would advise against this tactic, which makes me want to lean towards him probably being innocent, but admittedly I’m still hung up on his vote/retraction on Hellscythe. Now, for Sart’s vote against me. I don’t really have much to say into response, Sart. I understand where you’re coming from for two reasons; first, because I personally believe that players who solely post useful tools and never weigh in on the discussion are automatically evil because they are indeed trying to seem useful without actually getting involved and making enemies (see Burnt Spaghetti in LG15, where she would often post Quick Links and Vote Tallies but never vote). Second, because you weren’t part of the game where posts like this were a trend for me (in which case I was good, however that is not a valid argument. No matter my alignment I would do something just like this because the way I play the games where I am evil is by behaving the same way I would good in order to keep people guessing. So with that said, I can’t blame you for voting for me, though I do think that the way you articulated it - as said by Kipper - was not very efficient. For that reason I can’t tell if you actually think I’m evil or if you are - similar to the way you voted for brand new players who hadn’t yet post in MR9 - trying to get a recurring player (especially one who normally posts a ton) to speak up. I am more inclined to believe the latter, which is why I am leaning towards you being innocent at the moment. Also because of the fact that it is extremely rare for eliminators to vote for me to be killed - especially early on in this game - as it makes them unnecessary target when it’s much safer for them to just kill me in the night rather than risk revealing themselves. As for Elbereth and Kipper coming to my defense, I am slightly suspicious of this. Last time I was an eliminator (QF10, not the short lived LG15a) I would intentionally come to a player who I know is innocent’s defense so that in the event that they are killed suspicion is drawn away from me and onto the player’s who voted for them (which often never contained one of my teammates) and so that if I ended up killed it would implicate that player as evil, wasting the town’s time trying to kill them while simultaneously making up for my loss. I am wary of Kipper in particular (and this isn’t just because I naturally can’t bring myself to trust him since LG14 ) because in every game we have been in together (apart from my first, MR8, or when we were evil together in LG15a) he has done the exact opposite of this; casting suspicion onto me early on instead. By process of elimination that brings me to the conclusion that either we are evil together (which I know is not true), that he knows I’m good because he is evil and is trying to get on my good side or accomplish one of the aforementioned tactics, or that he really is trying to play different than usual, which also can be construed as suspicious. With that out of the way, I want to discuss the game itself. As we all know this is an elimination game within a faction game. While I have experience with the former I am completely clueless on the latter. For that reason my initial instinct is to pursue the primary win condition, which is to find and kill the Diagrammists, above all else. However, based on some other player’s posts, it seems there are a few who are more concerned with the faction aspect. I want to know what everyone’s opinions are on how we should treat this game, because there a lot of posts that I can interpret two entirely different ways based on intent alone. For example, did Hellscythe vote for Stink because he is a Diagrammist trying to reduce PMs or a Ghostblood trying to get his faction ahead in numbers? Knowing where players stand in this matter is pretty important when it comes to my analysis. Personally I, like Stink, believe that the faction aspect of the game is irrelevant in favor of the eliminator. The way I look at it, killing villager Radiants on the other side does more harm than good no matter what team you are on, as their Surges are advantages we can use against the bad guys. While I understand the fascination with the faction aspect of this game, I think it’s better that at least in the beginning we pursue the Diagrammists over one another, as if we let this turn into a faction war the eliminators could easily stay out of it until we’ve clawed enough of our own throats to swoop in and finish us for their victory. EDITED FOR CURRENT VOTE TALLY (1) Paranoid King: Clanky (1), (0) Clanky: Arraenae (1), (3) Stink: Hellscythe (1), Orlok (1), Twei (1) (2) Hellscythe: Elbereth (1), phattmer (1), Mailliw (1), Tony (1), (1) Orlok: Arraenae (1), (1) Adavantos: Sart (1), EDIT PART DEUX Because I forgot to address it the first time, I will go ahead and clarify this now, Sart. My intent is to seem as unbiased as possible in the actual summary, however if I feel it necessary I will add commentary in parenthesis and italics so that you guys see some of my reactions to it. Additionally, to combat bias, I have also included links to every single post that way no one simply goes off my reading of it, instead being able to quickly take a look at the information themselves.
  8. Amanuensis
    C1 Post Summaries, 1 - 50 Note: GMs not included Hellscythe: Asks a question (Note: that can be answered easily by reviewing the original thread). Creccio: Wishes everyone good luck, references Hunger Games. Stink: Answers Hellscythe’s question, adds that each cycle ends with lynch and elim kill. Clanky: Votes for Paranoid King. Proposes plan to designate which faction scans which kill to prevent scan repetition. Asks for ideas on how to reveal information in public without putting Scholars in danger. Creccio: Suggests color coded votes for who the town wants the Scholars scan. Stink: Expresses that our primary focus needs to be killing the Diagrammists. Advises Radiants reveal to no one. Mentions the possibility of Diamgrammists being able to start PMs, in which case beware being manipulated in them. Insists that activity is a must but we should not target inactives in case they turn out to be a Radiant (note: this contradicts his statement about prioritizing the Eliminators) Kynedath: Asks if Commanders are able to PM Captains; is immediately answered by Kas. Elbereth: Responding to Clanky, says we should not assume that there are only 2 Scholars to begin with. While possible it is best to not make assumptions. Presents a couple ideas for the Scholars, including 1: Runner acts as intermediary for Scholar, and 2: Scholars reveal themselves publicly to garner protection. Asks GMs questions regarding redirecting Scholar-scans. Agrees that Clanky’s idea is sound, barring if an Elsecaller transforms a dead player set to be scanned into another role/alignment. Asks if write ups designate if a kill is Diagrammist or Cook and if someone is promoted if a player in their command chain is killed. Recommends that Runners contact their Superior to receive the name of their superior and continuously climb the chain until they reach their faction’s leader, to be directed to a player they want to learn more about. Asks other weigh in on this idea due to the Diagrammists. Advises that because there is a role that can look into PMs that players practice identity safety by keeping their names out of the conversations, nor reference their faction. Says in blue text that she will be playing this game differently than her last for reasons she doesn’t want to yet explain and that she will be relatively inactive for the rest of the cycle due to exams. Stink: Reveals that he is a Son of Honor Runner. Arraenae: RP post regarding write-up and Clanky’s vote against Paranoid King. Votes for Clanky asking for an explanation. Clanky: Responds to Elbereth, explaining that he expects more than one Scholar per faction due to the criticality of their role and the difficulties associated with them revealing their information. Clarifies that Thaidakar and Restares only know players in their faction, not their alignments, and for this reason it isn’t necessary for Runners to contact them. Realizes that they don’t really need to check the Diagrammist kill with Scholars because they are essentially confirmed good. Edits to inform Arraenae that he voted for Paranoid King strictly for roleplay, as at the time he had no information to base suspicions off of. Stink: Adds that he intends to reveal all information he learns in thread unless asked by a person it is specifically relevant to not to. Kynedath: Reminds everyone that they are a new player, then expresses suspicion of Elbereth’s blue text. Says he doesn’t want to get on her bad side, just bring attention to it, then asks for an explanation. Mailliw: Commends Stink for his previous post. Mentions that he has tried this in the past but it has always gotten him killed. Claims if he was a faction leader he would have told the entire thread who was under his charge. Elbereth: Responds to Stinks reveal, saying she meant to only hear people’s opinions of a Runner revealing themselves, not encourage one to do that. Responds to Clanky’s post about Faction Leaders not knowing alignments, and attributes her previous thoughts as she was looking at the MR as a Faction Game, not an Elimination. Thinks it would be wise to occasionally scan Diagrammist Kills to see what role they lost. Stink: Ensures that he already planned to reveal his role and faction placement, comments on the convenient timing. Elbereth: Responds to Kynedath in blue text that the reason her playstyle this game is different is relevant to an ongoing Elimination game and therefore has to wait until it’s over. Responds to Mail’s idea of Faction Leaders revealing their members, saying she supports it but that it’s up to them to decide. Presents counterpoint that this would paint targets on the backs of the Faction Leaders, but that it would make it easier for Cooks to kill their opposing team. Hellscythe: Votes for Stink with no explanation. Elbereth: Votes for Hellscythe, asking for him to explain his vote. Almost wants to think he is a Ghostblood trying to pursue his secondary win condition rather than find Diagrammists. Stink: Two words in response to Hellscythe’s vote. Hellscythe: Answers Elbereth’s question with a question. Stink: Passive aggressive response to Hellscythe. Orlok: Votes for Stink, explaining that he thinks he is providing advice that sounds good without good intentions, which in addition to not fearing death for revealing his role and his strategy, is suspicious. Stink: Responds to Orlok, says he was providing advice for new players rather than just shouting to practice PM safety. Also states that he could be killed but that his death would be interesting (assuming he means glean useful information). Hellscythe: Asks if Surgeon protects from lynch. phattmer: Votes for Hellscythe for his lack of explanation and because he thinks lynching a Runner is a bad idea. Elbereth: Responds to Hellscythe’s question, saying that she believes the Surgeon protects from Lynch like it’s Surgebinder equivalent. Clanky: Responds to Elbereth’s guess at the Surgeon, assuming that it does not protect from the Lynch because it does not exclusively mention it like the Edgedancer. Elbereth: Admits Clanky’s theory might be right but wants clarification from the GMs due to the fact that every other Surgebinder ability has a non-Radiant equivalent. (Is soon told by Wilson that she is right and Surgeon protects from Lynches). Elbereth: Thanks Wilson for responding so quickly. Says she is about to leave for awhile but first asks why Hellscythe voted for Stink, and that she agrees that lynching a claimed Runner right off the bat is a bad idea no matter their alignment as PMs benefit the good more than the evil. Mailliw: Votes for Hellscythe for no other reason than “he likes PMs.” Orlok: Asks that Stink be analyzed whether or not he is evil regardless of his role claim, as the two facts are a separate issue. Hellscythe: Asks that in case there is an evil Surgeon that the Cook also target the lynch target to ensure their death in order to ensure one of theirs isn’t saved. Ripple: Quotes Orlok, Stink and Mail. Doesn’t think killing Hellscythe or Stink is a good idea, as the former has previously proven themselves to be good at finding evils and the latter’s “acceptance of death seems reasonable.” Araris: Informs the thread that he is paying attention but has no thoughts to express yet; in black text claims he is having a hard time focusing and will try again later. Kipper: Says he is here but won’t be voting for anyone, referencing to the last time he did (likely referring to the Shallan Debacle of LG15). Claims that he plans to change up his play style by producing more “high quality posts,” but that it’ll likely take a few cycles as he is currently busy with real life (mentioned in black text). Reminds people to practice PM safety (strikes through) only to replace it with PM him. Mailliw: Retracts vote from Hellscythe, claiming to see what he’s doing and that he will help. Then reveals himself as Thaidakar claiming that he was waiting for Restares to come out before doing so himself. Reveals a list of both faction’s rosters, scrambled so that positions cannot be determined. Tacks on at the end that we now that we don’t have to worry about faction reveals we can focus on killing the Diagrammists. Tony: Quotes Mailliw, expressing confusion. Edits in that he wanted to talk about Hellscythe but after Mail’s reveal he won’t place a vote quite yet. Hael: Responds to Mail’s reveal, rhetorically asking why he’s not surprised. Mentions that he was curious to see how a faction game would go without players knowing all their teammates. Ripple: Tells Mail to double check his roster, claiming she is a Son of Honor on his list but actually a Ghostblood. Mailliw: Claims he flipped her and Arraenae for having similar RP names. Feligon: Suggests other Runners contact Stink in order to establish a network, and that he needs more time to think and thus will post later. Kynedath: Expresses that Mail has ruined half of / the “most appetizing” aspect of the game. Mace: Affirms Kynedath’s previous post about Mail spoiling an important part of the game. Ripple: Quotes Kynedath, referencing the game Portal. Arraenae: Retracts their vote on Clanky in favor of Orlok for being “eager to kill someone for giving new players advice about PM safety.” Reminds him that new players have no prior experience to go off of and tips like this are extremely useful for them, obvious to recurring players or not. Also asks for Hellscythe’s reasoning for thinking that Stink is a Diagrammist. Edits in that both her faction and the faction of those she knows the faction of are wrong on Mailliw’s list. Aonar: Quickly posts that he is paying some attention but (in black text) that he hasn’t had a lot of time to gather his thoughts. Expresses that Stink’s reveal is both odd and counter productive for the long term, but because he can’t see a logical reason that a Diagrammist would make that move he will refrain from voting just yet. Also adds that he doesn’t know what Mail’s trying to accomplish and for that reason will keep quiet about it. Hael: Says that he has something to say in regards to Mail’s reveal but that it’ll have to wait until later. Creccio: Comments on Stink and Mail’s reveals. Thinks Stink is trying to gain player’s trust and observe our reactions, as well as figure out an efficient target for his ability to create PMs. On Mail, leaves it up to the individual to believe it’s validity, but if it’s proven false we need to discuss what his intentions may have been. Adavantos: I shouldn’t have to summarize my own post within this summary. However I will add to this post that I will try to keep this trend up so long as I’m alive. That being said, I am about to go to get off work and go to sleep, so when I awaken I will have to catch up on everything I miss which will likely take some time. Once I finish that I will begin weighing in on who I believe is suspicious so far.
  9. Amanuensis
    The anticipation is killing me.
  10. Amanuensis
    Due to character restraints, I fixed / reduced the question to: "Is the Dor a Splintered Dominion and Devotion coalesced into a single Shard?"
  11. Amanuensis
    Was wondering when you were going to sign up, Creccio. Was about to send you a message So Aonar and Twelfth are returning for this game? I'm excited to see them in action, as well as Tony Shark, Kynedath and Starry
  12. Amanuensis
    So, I am about to order the Elantris leather bound and have been thinking of what I want to ask. @Yata: do you want me to ask "Is the Dor the residual investiture from a shattered Dominion and Devotion coalesced into a single force (I.E. Harmony without a Shardholder)?" or something similar, or would you rather you or someone else ask yourself?
  13. Amanuensis
    Gotta love the Rage Knights I figured it'd be an interesting thing to explore; traitors knowing each others roles, but not identities. Could lead to some amusing situations if they get each other killed. Right now I'm debating between the night kill cycling between the Traitors one at a time, so they have to basically pick on their own, or for them to put it an anonymous vote every night, the Lancer with the most votes dying. What do you think would be better / more interesting?
  14. Amanuensis
    Someone can challenge the Arcos to a duel. If the Arcos has less cheers, they will kill the challenger regardless. Their protection does not prevent them from night attacks, however, unless they have an IonBlade; in which case they will expend it to save themselves, but only if they don't already use it on another. Essentially a Rath is like Survival in LG14; he can willingly change sides at any point in the game, but in his case he can only do it once. This is mainly implemented to add more of a sense of paranoia to the game, even if you have reason to trust someone, especially for the eliminators. For example, if there were a traitor Rath, all traitors would be aware of it and thus would avoid using their actual names in the once-a-turn-message, or else they risk him simply changing to good and outing them. I expect that there are a lot of interesting scenarios that could come from this.
  15. Amanuensis
    I do indeed, thanks
  16. Amanuensis
    Half credit goes to Stink for helping me figure some of this stuff out after me encouraging him to read the books. MR or LG: Hic Sunt Leones This is a game based off of the Red Rising Trillogy by Pierce Brown. It is highly recommended that you read it (because it is awesome) but it is not a requirement in order for you to play and by participating the story will not be spoiled, as this is an alternate universe representation. Tiberius au Bellona is the ArchGovernor of Mars. Under the rule of his House, the red planet has not seen war in centuries, yet there are those who find his tyranny cruel and stale, wishing to see him fall so another may rise in his place. At their head is Praetor Nero au Augustus, Praetor and mortal enemy of the ArchGovernor. A decade of planning has finally culminated into Nero sowing traitors among the Lancers sworn in service of Tiberius; their mission, to hunt the secret heirs of House Bellona and undermine the ArchGovernor’s most valuable assets. Overview There are only two teams in Hic Sunt Leones; those Loyal to House Bellona, and the Traitors sent by House Augustus to overpower them. Due to the intense psychological analysis required to be performed by the Board of Quality Control before a Gold is indoctrinated into the Academy of the Peerless Scarred, the Traitors do not know the identities of their peers for the sake of protecting them in case they are discovered. They have, however, been informed of which Houses their allies belong to, and are capable of sending a single message at the end of every turn via WhisperGems provided to them by their secret benefactor. Each Lancer will belong to a specific House, granting them a permanent ability. All Lancers can use Personal Messages via their DataPads, but off work (AKA during the Night Turn). Depending on if this is an MR or LG, turns are either 24 or 48 hours respectively. In order for the Loyal to win, all Traitors must be found and killed; as for the Traitors, they must both kill all Heirs to House Bellona and outnumber the Loyals. In addition to each Lancer beginning with an ability granted by their House, they can also start with an item or amount of Merit. During the Day Turn Lancers can spend their Merit on an item of their choice through the GM, to be received upon the completion of the Cycle. Each item has a limited number of stock and a base cost required for purchase. If multiple Lancers attempt to order the same item in a single turn, they will be informed at the beginning of the Night Turn how many others there are and will have to make an additional bid to win it. Lancers who lose the bid will be refunded the initial fee, but not the Merit they bid. Throughout the course of the game Merit can be gained and lost through actions and inactions, as listed below: +1 Make an on-topic contribution to the thread that pushes the conversation forward; I.E. suggest a plan, initiate a duel, cheer for a combatant, or analyze another Lancer. Note that simply voting for a Lancer will not do; an explanation must be provided alongside it. It is up to Tiberius (the GM) to deem if your contribution is worthy of Merit, and if not awarded the Lancer to plead their case via PM for why they believe they deserve it. -1 Go a full turn without contributing to the thread; I.E. remain completely inactive. Note that if you post in blue text that you will be too busy to participate, you will not be penalized for the duration in which you specify you will be unavailable. However, for each turn of consecutive unexplained inactivity, the amount of Merit that is lost will be increased by 1 (D1 -1, N1 -2, N2 -3, etc.) +X Win a duel, X = half your opponent's total Merit, to include whatever is slated to be spent that cycle. If a Lancer is killed in a duel their order for that cycle will automatically be canceled. Not every Lancer begins with their own personal equipment, therefore it is up to each individual to earn enough Merit to remain competitive among their colleagues. Items can also be sold to the shop via the GM for half of the item’s base cost. Below is a list of each item, preceded by how many are in stock and followed by their base cost, as well as the ability they provide. Note that each item expires after single use. (?) HoloCam(s) / HoloBox(es), ?? Merit: You purchase both. Via PM with the GM you can gift your HoloBox to another Lancer. During the same Turn, any action that you take or that is taken against you is recorded and relayed to them. (?) JamField(s), ?? Merit: During the Day or Night Turn you can disable any devices within close proximity of you and another Lancer. (?) StunFist(s), ?? Merit: During the Day or Night Turn you can select another Lancer to stun, preventing their actions from succeeding that turn. (?) FleshMask(s), ?? Merit: During the Day or Night Turn you can disguise yourself as another Lancer. (?) GhostCloak(s), ?? Merit: During the Day or Night Turn you can stealth yourself and stalk another Lancer, discovering their target. (?) PulseShield(s), ?? Merit: Passively protects you from death. Works for the Daily Duel and any Night Kill. (?) IonBlade(s): ?? Merit: A concealed weapon that allows you to attack another Lancer under the cover of night. Finally, the Houses of the Aureate in service of the ArchGovernor. Before becoming a Peerless Scarred, each Lancer will have been raised by another House, gifting them powers associated with their lineage. While which House you belong to is kept a secret, you will start knowing how many among you are of your kin, but not their given names (with one exception). Below is a list of each House and their permanent ability. Thorne: You were raised among many cousins from a minor House and thus possess no unique, worthwhile talents. Fabii: You were raised by some of Mars’ most manipulative politicians, allowing you to sway the vote of a single Lancer once per Day Turn. Rath: You were raised by the descendants of history’s most despicable traitors, giving you the strength to betray your allegiance once during the course of the game. Julii: You were raised by interstellar merchants, capable of convincing anyone to exchange a single item with you once per Day Phase. If one or both players have multiple items the one traded will be randomized. Telemanus: You were raised with the sole purpose of protecting House Bellona, instilling within you the loyalty required to defend another at the cost of your own well being. Lune: You were raised within the Sovereign’s own household, providing you the resources to discover the family name of a single Lancer at the end of each Night Turn. Arcos: You were raised by the Rage Knight Lorn au Arcos himself, gifting you mastery over the Razor, making you undefeatable in one one one combat. Due to your pride you are unable to initiate a duel; you can, however, cheer another one on. Bellona: You were raised in secret as a Heir to the ArchGovernor in another house, and thus they believe you to be among their kin. You do not, however, begin with knowledge of how many are of that House nor their permanent ability. Instead you are informed by the GM the identity of your sibling(s). Due to your father’s unwavering vigilance, you are not able to announce, in Public or PM, that you are a Heir of House Bellona. Hic Sunt Leones does not have a traditional lynch system. Instead, during the Day Turn, you must challenge another player to a duel. In doing so, a vote is initiated (Wilson (0) vs Gamma (0)) Other Lancers can either cheer on one of the Combatants, the Lancer with the least cheers losing and being killed in combat, or initiate their own duel. You are unable to cheer for your own duel, but if challenged you can cheer for another. Only a single duel (the one with the most cheers) will take place at the end of that Day Turn.
  17. Amanuensis
    Agrigar Leiken is in and eager.
  18. Amanuensis
    Okay so, here's the deal. Everyone so far except for "Wilson" that has been scanned by the "Kandra" has come back loyal. Considering that a lot of these players I am suspicious of makes me suspicious. There's a chance I am wrong about them but so far I think my logic and gut feelings have been sound and for that reason I want to trust them. So really there's two ways we can prove that the "Kandra" is good, and that is by killing them or killing a player that they scanned that we generally agree there's a high chance of being evil. If they turn out to be a traitor then the Kandra is obviously on their side and we can remove them next; if they turn out to be good we can continue to trust said Kandra. This is just a proposal but I want to know what people think. Thanks.
  19. Amanuensis
    It's a combination of things, really. You not role claiming is a small factor but I try not to use that as a reason since that mindset is Mayorish. Maybe I'm just over thinking it, but with your D1 vote on Bridge Boy and your call for Cow's death I've got this head cannon where you're intentionally trying to get yourself cleared by voting for your mates. Cow being inactive would be a great scape goat to that means, and if you are a traitor that means you would have been aware of Wilson's plan to steer the vote away from BB. Also to me it seems your activity levels spiked after the last two talkative-ish traitors died. And there's just generally a lot of things you say that make me question your intentions, and I would fully expect a traitor to piggy back off of some of the ideas I've brought up to try and gain similar amounts of trust and influence. I just really get the too good to be true vibe, but I could be wrong in my reading of you. EDIT: Also the fact that phatt is following the thread but remaining inactive makes me think he's a traitor trying to watch the thread through emails while participating through the doc.
  20. Amanuensis
    Well my guess on Cow was right too. Him being Uninvested makes me slightly less suspicious of the others, but I'm still certain that one more is evil, likely Lopen, though I've got a theory that he's the Traitor BioChromancer. The Kandra should have scanned him last night so once he posts the code to confirm I'll let everyone know. I'm also leaning towards the traitors being inactive, hence the lack of a kill. I'm pretty sure there's only one Voidbringer left and I've already confirmed him. He's not a player the traitors would go for because his role was revealed in a group PM that Cow was in. Pretty sure he's not the only traitor there either. Anyway, Kipper and Hellscythe. You two began group PMs with Cow in them. Why? What made you think he was good enough time be included? I never once saw him do anything that seemed loyal. Can someone make a list of the players who didn't post last turn and another for those who didn't post the second day of it? Probably a traitor or two among them, especially if they've been consistently active before then. Oh and Araris, FYI, you're approaching the top of my maybe evil list more and more
  21. Amanuensis
    Sorry but, with Stink now being confirmed good I am very sure either you or Alvron are evil. It's the only reason why I think Dowanx would have been killed N3. I trust the Elantrian if only because they are the only Elantrian who I have caught wind of this entire game and they kept their role a secret from everyone until I was confirmed good. As for Spaghetti, it could have certainly been them attempting a WGG, but even so I'm not implying I trust her. I just don't think it's a lead worth pursuing, especially since she has yet to vote for anyone anyway. To me it makes more sense to lynch players who have been more involved in the game as it gives us more information to go off of based on their votes and interactions.
  22. Amanuensis
    1) Yes, there were two Mistborn kills in a single night, which is why I counted 2 Confirmed Mistborn. Only one has claimed to me. 2) The same player who is still alive and claimed to me to be a Surgebinder also claimed to have posted the Wilson did it message. 3) I think it's a bit odd too, but for the moment I have no evidence to suggest otherwise. If there is another it's either one of the three who have not yet claimed to me or one of the players who have but lied. 4) Keep in mind that the HI is not included in there, so the number is 33 vs 31. What this means is that either one of the players who has claimed to me is lying and is actually the second Mistborn or Traitor BioChromancer and the other one is Unclaimed or that both lied about their role and there are two unknowns out there. The three unclaimed players are a separate count. 5) I have something to say about this but it would end with us losing PMs one way or another, which as I think about it now I am okay with but I would rather not tackle this conversation unless the Crew agrees we are okay with limiting this game to thread only. EDIT: Saying what I did above, my guesses for the traitors are: Kipper Lopen Phattmer Alfa Cow I would be willing to alternate Kipper for Alvron, Phatt for PK and Cow for Steph. Keep in mind these have been jumbled to protect roles.
  23. Amanuensis
    So for everyone's review, here is a list of all the roles we know from deaths and what roles have been claimed to me, in addition to how many players have not claimed to me or I have not yet found out their role through third party means. Upon considering all this information my guess at the traitors composition can be found at the end of this post. (4?) Voidbringers: Dead Loyal Voidbringer, Dead Traitor Voidbringer, Living Confirmed Voidbringer, Living Claimed Voidbringer (2?) Surgebinders: Dead Loyal Voidbringer, Living Claimed Surgebinder (1) Elantrian: Living Claimed Confirmed Elantrian (2) Forgers: Dead Loyal Forger, Dead Traitor Forger (3) Feruchemists: Living Claimed Confirmed Feruchemist, Living Claimed Confirmed Feruchemist, Living Claimed Confirmed Feruchemist (2) Mistborn: Living Claimed Confirmed Mistborn, Living Confirmed Mistborn (2) Kandra: Dead Loyal Kandra, Living Claimed Confirmed Kandra (3) BioChromancer: Dead Loyal BioChromancer, Dead Loyal BioChromancer, Living Unclaimed Traitor BioChromancer (4?) Hemalurgist: Dead Loyal Hemalurgist, Dead Loyal Hemalurgist, Living Claimed Hemalurgist, Living Claimed Hemalurgist (7?) Uninvested: Dead Loyal Uninvested, Dead Loyal Uninvested, Dead Loyal Uninvested, Dead Loyal Uninvested, Living Claimed Uninvested, Living Claimed Uninvested, Living Claimed Uninvested (3) Players who have not claimed to me: assuming no one above who is not confirmed has not lied about their role, one is a Mistborn, one is a BioChromancer, and the last is unknown. Traitor Hemalurgist (could just be a claim and not actually a Hemalurgist) Traitor BioChromancer Traitor Feruchemist Traitor Uninvested Traitor Uninvested
  24. Amanuensis
    Because I asked the HI to scan two players, one a Feruchemist and one a Kandra. By killing the Hemalurgists he would revert to a Traitor and tell them everything he knows. Also, Stink brought up that exact point before he was killed by the Mistborn I am in contact with. I scoffed at it because given the fact that there has only been evidence of a single Elantrian and only two proven Loyal Voidbringers, I personally believe that the Traitors would not be given a second night kill as we don't have nearly enough protection to balance that out. However you bring up a good point. If the group wants, we could vote to have the Kandra scan the Mistborn I've been in contact with since N1 tonight to make sure.
  25. Amanuensis
    Very well. So that means that either Alfa or the other Hemalurgist who claimed to him are most definitely evil. Unfortunately both have not been very vocal so no much can be gleaned from their alignments being revealed, but at this point I think it would be best to have one killed - and if they turn out to be loyal - go after the other. Yes, it'll be unfortunate that the identity of the Feruchemist and Kandra would reach the traitors hands, but now that I know a confirmed Elantrian I can make sure they protect the Kandra from now on, and honestly I could live without a player who can manipulate votes, especially since there's three of them running around.
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